Even if we take Ohio, we have a problem.

There is a huge division in this country, marked by a theological position. That position is marked by the issues surrounding abortion and Gay/Lesbian civil liberties. The Church/State line is heavily blurred, if not dissolving.

We have three opponents -

1) The media

2) Theocrats

3) Neo-conservatives

There is no single strategy that can be used on each of these opponents.

Regardless of Ohio, where do we go from here?

And stop trying to save all of these dumbasses voting against their own interests.

from the consequences of four more years of this?

Why not fight for your interests?

things even tho he was under constant fire.

and start trying to wake these people the fuck up.
Shit. They have subverted everything fom within the temple- may as well get in there to counter their shit.

That's the killer. Even if some magic wand is waved and Ohio turns Blue...and even Florida...it means little with the large difference in that popular vote.

It's far larger than Gore's in 2000 and will be played up for the next 4 years. Deal with it, get used to it, the numbers now say we are truly a minority.

and depressing to know that a clear MAJORITY of Americans actually support the way things have been going these last 4 years.

It just boggles the mind.

This is a sad day for America and the World.

I cannot believe that * got elected after his horrible record.

I truly think America deserves what it is going to get, but , unfortunately we are going to have to suffer as well.

I am not feeling too kindly toward the American People this morning.

It's that plain and simple.

The current presidential election law involves the use of the electoral college. Until this is overturned, this is what is used. After the 2000 election it was fun to continue referring to "President" Gore, in light of the fact that he won the popular vote and that Bush was selected by the Supreme Court, but this is not how the law works. What you are really saying is that you are afraid of what the reaction will be from the other side should Kerry actually win the electoral college. We can't afford to live in fear.

any sembalance of support for anti-discrimintation against gays, and in turn suppress the voter turnout of 4 million GLBT voters, which will mean they will lose by even greater margins in 2006. Which is the republican bonus plan (over and above using anti-gay ballot initiatives to turn out right wing nut christians in THIS election).

Divide and conquer. That is what cons do.

I don't want this to be flame bait, and I'm not gonna play the blame game here...this is a problem that was just papered over but has been a growing one I've seen here on DU and among Democrats in general.

In recent years I've met some very arrogant and intolerant Gay people...not the types I met 15 years ago who worked had a "don't ask, don't tell" situation, not to hide them being gay, but as it didn't matter in a business or even social relationship. In recent years I've seen that change.

Yes, this regime has used the LGBT as their whipping boys and will continue to do so, since I'm sure they're going to add GMA + Popular vote = more gay bashing. But I also think the LGBT needs to take a look at itself or alienate those of us who favor the basic concept of freedom from sexual discrimination.

You get our votes and our donations. How else can we "accommodate"? I don't mean that with any sarcasm at all -- it's a real question.

Sure, we're angry -- not, mind you, at the fearless heteros who stand up for us on principle alone, when we know you don't have to.

But, aside from our anger at being used as whipping boys by the Repukes, understand that we're often convenient whipping boys for some Dems as well. No Dem in his or her right mind would ever say anything so appalling as, "If it weren't for those blacks pushing their 'equal-rights' agenda, we wouldn't be alienating the right-of-center Dems now. Couldn't they just stay quiet until after this election / next year's election / the year 2050? It just isn't the right time."

Sadly, a LOT of people have said exactly that, about gay people, right here on DU.

So, understand, we're a little sensitive. And sometimes, some of us are going to express our anger, our hurt, our sense of betrayal, and our fear, in a big way.

But that doesn't mean we don't appreciate you for standing up for us. And it doesn't mean we'll stop voting for or donating to progressive candidates.

A couple of years ago, I posted my idea of a great new slogan for LGBT Dems, something to the effect of: "You support our rights, and we'll vote for your issues." Something like that. Anyway, that still stands for me. It's a trade-off.

So, I'm a tad unclear about what you mean by "accommodating."

The Dem party doesn't "support" LGBT rights -- the DNC just takes care not to piss us off as much as they can possibly avoid it. Abandon us altogether, and ... I don't mean this as any sort of threat, and I certainly don't speak on behalf of all gay people, but I can almost guarantee a painfully large exodus of LGBTs (and many straight friends and family members) to the Green Party, once and for all.

And, frankly, if we have to suffer through another pansy-assed "leadership" like that of Terry McAuliffe's, the rest of the left wing of the Dem Party (Deaniacs, Kunicich faithfuls, etc.) may well take a powder too.

The end result? Sure, it could kill the Dems' chances of ever regaining the WH, or Congress, probably for decades. Or it may be just the thing to break out of this insufferable two-party system of ours. Is anybody else in the U.S. cognizant of multi-party systems -- and, most importantly, multi-party coalitions -- which actually work? A Dem-Green coalition would have creamed the Repukes in '00, regardless of their reprehensible actions in Florida.

Of course, if somebody -- like, oh, McAuliffe -- had been BRAVE and actually taken us LGBTs (and far-leftists) into the fold, and acknowledged the existence of the Greens and attempted to form a coalition before now... well, I certainly wouldn't be sitting up writing this at 1:30 in the morning, sick with fear and despair.

BE YOURSELF...DO NOT ACCOMODATE MORONS THAT WANT TO SUPPRESS YOU!