Perhaps it's time to start (or join) a real opposition party.

The Democratic Party leadership has abandoned its role as the watchdog of the people’s interests; they have chosen to ally themselves with a corporate mainstream power structure that cares nothing for Democracy or the needs of the electorate. Progressives have nothing to lose by leaving a party that is so beholden to the corporations that they couldn't beat Bush. Let me repeat myself: DEMOCRATS COULDN’T BEAT BUSH! That's like losing to a sock-puppet.

If progressives can't win elections within the Democratic Party, then why shouldn't they start (or join) a real opposition group? I do not think I am being to harsh with this observation. Please consider:

If the Democratic Party were a real opposition group, those voting machines would never have been installed in the first place. Why didn't Democratic leaders & precinct captains raise a bigger stink when it became apparent that the paperless ballot system was fraught with danger? It's not like they didn't have sufficient warning! Why is Bev Harris & friends doing all the real work of getting the message out about these abominable machines instead of the Democratic think-tanks? Why hasn't the DNC spearheaded this effort?

If the Democratic Party were a real opposition group we would not be in Iraq right now. Where were the Democratic Senators to filibuster the illegal war? Why did organizations like Move-On and ANSWER do most of the anti-war organizing instead of the DNC? How is it that a president without a clear mandate from the American people for war, with hundreds of thousands of citizens marching on Washington TWICE... was still able to start one under the flimsiest of excuses?

If the Democratic Party were a real opposition group outsourcing would be the exception rather than the rule. (Remember, it was Clinton who helped pass GATT & NAFTA.) Where is the DNC to help organize workers & unions to protect American jobs?

All these questions point to one clear answer: These actions & policies would not be possible unless there was no viable opposition party in the United States. I am not saying that Democrats and Republicans are the same; I am merely pointing out that the Democratic Party no longer has any real power to protect or advance the concerns of a Progressive agenda. Therefore, for all intents & purposes, we are now a one-party state.

In the past we have been told by our party leaders that to support Kucinich would be folly because he was to "Liberal" or "unelectable." Up until the 2004 election I believed this lie. I now realize that until Progressives start supporting people who share their values, instead of constantly compromising and settling for someone who is more mainstream, the political debate in this country will continue to slide to the right.

I am proud to be a Democrat, but by sucking up to the mainstream instead of fighting for the rights and needs of the American people... we didn't deserve to win.

but we also need 'clean' elections.
The present system is rotten to the core.

But we would not even have this problem if the DNC was not asleep at the wheel.

NO corporation should be allowed to donate to a political candidate, period.

But instead of sticking to that ideal, we Democrats compromised because corporate money was just to delicious to pass up. And now we are paying for it.

I fought hard for the Democrats to win in Nevada. We lost though, and I know why: it's because the members of the Democratic party in DC forgot to fight. OOOPS. What a thing to f-ing forget during an election!

So, I think it's time. I've been a life long Democrat. I was loyal, and fought so that these pussies could win. NO MORE. They will not take me for granted. I'm voting for the candidate I want next time, no matter what the party affiliation.

But the myth of "electability" is now gone. Let's just nominate who we think is best for America... it's not like we are going to win, so let's have fun and maybe we'll get lucky.

That's how Reagan did it.

Quite obviously, as I have observed over the past four years, the Democratic party does not serve the hopes of more than a few people. There are many posts here saying they will loyally stay and fight, but if the facts are looked at, I wonder how continuing on with blind loyalty and being continually frustrated with the lack of support from within that party, can be reconciled with a "fight", as far as progressive ideas and agendas go.

It is one thing to summon up the adrenalin and using it to spur on support for one's party, but another if all of that effort will be utilized or even appreciated by the party who seems on a track all of it's own.

somehow, somewhere, there HAD to have been legal challenged that could have been mounted to investigate and prove that these machines were dubious at best.

The Democratic party DROPPED the ball 100% in letting them get used in this election.

The Democratic party failed.

That's the bottom line.

they couldn't beat the worst president in history.

Bush is worse a criminal than Osama Bin Laden. And he just got electted.

THAT'S how bad the Democratic party is.

Let's face reality, folks.

the the one killing a goose for votes? Or voting for a war? Or, supporting the corporations? Or, "compromising" on women's rights, or rightwing judges and directors of the CIA?

You mean having a party that actually stands for something? That has principles and ethics and ideals rather than fretting about what the candidate should wear to win the bubba vote?

Gosh, what a thought? It might work. Americans might respond to having a party system, in which one party looked and acted different than the other party(s) the DemoPugs.

nt

I noticed in my local elections that the Green party is growing, as far as the candidates they get on the ballot at least. Its a good sign.

If I'm going to vote for a party that loses, I'd rather vote for a party which has a future and who stands for something I believe in.

that we have a lot of power and they need to recognize that. We need to start calling some of the shots. We need to take some of the power that they have enjoyed away from them and let them know that we're going to take that power. The machinery is clueless. They need all the help they can get. We're in the position to form a partnership with them. Do or die.

If there is a silver lining in any of this, it is that people may finally start to see, that voting for one of two differing appointed representatives of the ultra wealthy, so that they can decide how to divvy up our treasury amongst themselves, and leave us fighting for the scraps that fall off of their tables, is not the way to go. People may start to realize that there is no real representation here.

If people start to see that, it may start to change.

I agree that the party leadership has let us down in some critical areas, particularly with opposition to the theft in 2000, the war in Iraq, and BBV.

But I would argue that it would be more effective to change the party than to abandon it. Just as the fundies took over the GOP, the progressives must take over the Democratic Party. This would be a much quicker and more effective path to victory, in my opinion.

I changed my registration to Independent after the 2000 debacle, forty years a democrat down the drain! I agree with most of your rant wholeheartedly but wonder why no alternative to the Democratic Party was cited?

I have been a Green Party sympathiser for a while now but not a registered Green. I have recognised the weakness in Democratic leadership and strategies and wonder how one could alter their course to avoid further reefs and rocks........perhaps by leaving them in droves we would force them to reevaluate, perhaps not.....just dont know, but I DO suggest you all either work to change the party or change parties.

But what good does that do me? It's not like Dems can win elections... so why not seriously look into an organization that still has heart?

What irks me is the ammount of time, effort and money I put into Dean first, then Kerry. All the time I was thinking to myself: "I'd go with Kucinich, but he's unelectable."

Now that I know that the Dems can't beat a sock-puppet, let alone a real conservative candidate, I don't see why I should continue to stick with the Democrats. Both parties are not the same, but they feed from the same corporate teat... thus the Democratic party is unable to mount a real defense against the conservative machine.

I'm torn on this issue, and I feel numb inside.

You are having an epiphany, and sometimes they are agonizing and painful, I know, having had just such a one some four years earlier after the last rigged election in which the democrats showed the courage of a field mouse.

and why not?

We simply need take our party, and our country, BACK.

Sounds like the only way to get elected.

There is nothing mainstream about Bush's beliefs about religion, foreign policy, trade or morality.

Case in point: The majority of Americans want Health-care reform, they don't care if gays can marry and support Roe v. Wade. So why do Republicans win?

Republicans win because they don't go for the mainstream, they stick the core values they believe in. People respond to this. (That and paperless ballots are a big plus.)

If Democrats would *gasp* start acting like Liberals, we might actually start winning again. But that isn't going to happen because Liberal values endanger the corporate interests that the Democratic leadership feeds on.

If you care about social change, the Democratic Party may no longer be physically capable of helping you realize your goals.

...and I'm not even sure it is viable anymore with respect to national elections. Since the DLC took over, we've really turned into a 1 party nation, which has two slightly varying wings, one called Republican, the other Democrat. Kind of like in ancient Rome, when you had Blues and Greens. They looked at themselves as different and distinct, but in reality, they were really two different branches of the imperial party. What we need is an organization that is a counterpart to the DLC, that can work towards taking our party away from DLC control. The DLC gets Democratic candidates in line, by being able to divy out corporate money. Thats hard to compete with. But a new group could grow power, by being able to bring out a sizable voting block to various candidates. Similar to the early labor movement.

and a Democracy simultaneously. The best you can hope for is a limited plutocracy.

I like your point about the ancient Romans.

Theoretically & philosophically there is a difference between Democrats and Republicans, but it doesn't matter anymore because Democrats are not willing or able to put up a fight on important issues.

Basically its a coalition of the Dean and Kucinich people, along with other assorted progressives. We're on the ground, we're organized, and we played a BIG role in at least one state (my own state of MN).

Despite Dubya's win, we carried our state for Kerry, and GAINED 13 SEATS in the state legislature. One of our Congressional candidates came within 4% of a two-term incumbent in a heavily-Republican district.

We're still here, and we're not going away THIS time......

We're getting so soft on issues, so wishy washy that it's embarrassing. It seems like we're afraid to talk frankly about the core issues of the Democratic party. Pandering to the right is only moving America to the right and that's NOT what we want, is it?

In addition, it would be nice to find a candidate who has charisma, speaks their mind and isn't afraid to admit mistakes and move on. Someone with the personality, charisma and "middle America draw" of Jesse Ventura, but the policies & ideals of Dennis Kucinich. Think I'm crazy? You'd be surprised how many "hell fyre, heez a rassler!!" votes you'd get from a Jesse Ventura type candidate.

</crazy>

I am doing some soul searching about helping the party. Probably the next few weeks on DU will help me decide. If we try to appeal to fundies I am not only out of here but the party will have a new active and motivated enemy.

If there seems to be some sort of consensus to face some harsh realities head on I will stay and help build a new party, something besides a PNAC skull and bones cozy with the UBER -wealthy party.

I am doing some soul searching about helping the party.

What's it been, now? Four or five years of soul searching?

If there seems to be some sort of consensus to face some harsh realities head on I will stay and help build a new party, something besides a PNAC skull and bones cozy with the UBER -wealthy party.

And you think your hostility to dems isn't obvious?

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just as I did.

The majority support the Democratic Party, as I do. You don't

I cannot reconcile the Dem failure to highlight the BBV issue, and Kerry's premature concession, with a party concerned about democracy.

I don't know whether their inaction was based on ineptitude, fear or complicity. Maybe a combination of the three. Or maybe the point is that it simply doesn't make a difference anymore.

Are working w/i the party AND supporting a third party mutually exclusive?

I was a lifelong Democrat until yesterday. Today? :shrug:

How is this going to get organized? I've often thought a third 'Progressive' party might be a good idea, modeled on the Liberal-Democratic party in Britain.

In order to be viable it has to be focused, and has to have leaders who are willing to work day and night to get it started. Talking about it here is all well and good, but what is the next step ?

and cease control of this one. It's already got the cache and the infrastructure, time for us to take over, jsut as the neoCONs took over the republican party.


we need to get it back on track....


here's a group that's doing soemthign about it:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/democraticwing


there is also a thread, about the New Democrat Party - basically grassroots formt he ground up we take over.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1306286

of changing this party I fear.

we start working int he lower rungs...and keep moving up and moving up. People will still be giving their money to the dems, we just have to do the grassroots things ourselves.

We need to start running people for whatever elected offices are available. As we start getting people int heir we start accumulating power. We get ourselves as delegates, start participating in plank formulation in our own areas, and start giving ourselves a voice.

"THEY" are Us and can only exist because of Us.

But I see your point.

This group was founded by activists from the Dean and Kucinich campaigns to do exactly what you're talking about. We're on the ground in several states, and several members hold high positions in the state and local parties.

i'll add it to the list i'm keeping for grassroots orgs....

opposition and OVERSIGHT.

in history doesnt mean that it was easy to beat him. two things, those damn moral values (gaybashing, antichoice) as well as an emotional connection to 9/11. many people believe voting for bush was sending a message to the terrorists and being patriotic despite all the truth we know, and how much better against terror Kerry would have been. they also lie a lot.

The fact W was allowed to use 9-11 as a positive aspect of his stint was the worst mistake imaginable.

Everything is the fault of "the party"

Ride the wings of Democracy, embrace your progressive nature and the "liberal" label.

Reform the Democratic party or watch it die.

The Phoenix is Rising

But you are right, the party is either dead or dying. Still, it can be reborn. This type of death is a new opportunity to grow and rebuild in whatever form we see fit.

The party will rebuild, either we take hold of the rebuilding process at the grassroots level, or we let the party bosses have free reign.

We've seen what the party bosses can do, let see what we can do.



The Phoenix Rises