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You can't keep going to the center when the center is being moved right

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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:14 PM
Original message
You can't keep going to the center when the center is being moved right
We need to expend our energy moving the country back from this authoritarian, right-winger bent. Nixon would be labeled a flaming liberal in today's political scheme. It's sadly true at this point that Kerry did about as well as any Democratic primary candidate could have. People overwhelmingly voted in support of Bush based on morals and terrorism, two issues that he is paradoxically abysmal in. This is because the right wing has spent untold billions setting up policy groups and think tanks that have shifted our discourse to the point where we are trying to play their game by their rules to win. It's impossible--what few victories we do have are already stymied and impotent because they must submit to the will of this echo chamber. So rather than fixate on winning a few elections, we need to do what we can to regain ground with people who vote so superficially, as many obviously did on Tuesday.

This doesn't mean a rejection of our principles and an embracing of theirs--on the contrary, that's where the DLC has run us aground. Democratic principles of equality, organized labor, environmentalism etc. strike simple moral chords that are as if not more powerful than those the conservatives have used. By turning to the same issues--gods guns and gays--that conservatives have dominated for our moral issues, we will lose ground time and again even if we win. We need to stop playing their game and force them to play ours.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. What jp said... yup.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Of course, this means we will lose for a while
But we should have a great time doing so.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think "go to the left/go to the center" debates are mind-numbingly
simplistic.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. You missed the point--the center is being actively moved right
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 05:39 PM by jpgray
When Republicans actively change the debate and Democrats only pick and choose which sides of it they think will net a victory, guess who is going to come out on top more and more? It isn't about going to the center or left when those things move to the right every few years. We need to combat this or inexorably give up our principles one by one.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. No, I think you missed the point
Regardless of where the center is going, or not going, it's not about moving to the left or right. When was the last time you tried to persuade someone to be more to the left?

Talk to people about their values and how they relate to the issues. That's neither left nor right nor centrist.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Okay, what does that have to do with anything?
This post is about the direction of the Democratic Party's strategy. They embrace issues based on where they perceive the most votes to be. The perceptions they have are largely governed by the national consciousness which is shaped by the conservative think tanks and policy groups. Your average person doesn't really have a discrete and personal set of values--the popular / religious culture and media groups of this country have created a value set that is designed to catch as many Americans as possible. We need to combat this, because the one that has been created is tailor-made for conservative, authoritarian policies. Deification of the military while at the same time using the soldiers as political tools is one example.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. We focused on issues, they focused on VALUES
Along with our sprint to the right, that's the main reason why we lost, IMHO.

Instead of appealing to basic human values like fairness, looking out for the little guy, and community, we talked about "fighting a better war", and "making it easier to buy insurance".

As Jim Hightower said, "there's nothing in the middle of the road except yellow stripes and dead armadillos." How true, how true.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. But values are totally inert--they are what you make them
It's not representative of Christian values to hoard money for the rich stolen from the poor, shit all over the environment, start wars and execute retarded people, but Bush has done all these things and is labeled the Christian values candidate.

This disconnect proves to me that so long as you work hard enough at it, you can convince people any stance is value-based. We just need to work harder at it.
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Look--these fundies are used to getting preached at
and scared to death with hellfire and brimstone. That's why the GOP strategy was so successful--they scared them half to death with talks of more terrorist strikes, gays coming and making them marry gay people (or whatever it was that they said about gays), talking about taking their guns away--FEAR is what these people respond to. It's how their religious leaders keep them under control. So it's obvious that our talk of hope and of facts do not work. We have to learn to take plays out of the Lee Atwater/Karl Rove playbook if we ever hope to win again. Do I like it? Hell no. But do I realize that it's the only way to win in the future--YES.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Ghandi and Nelson Mandela didn't need to, neither do we
Taking plays out of the GOP playbook is what the DLC does--it causes us to give up principles one by one until when we do win it's basically a Republican in substance who takes the office anyway. What good is that? You use Rove strategy, you must also use right-wing policy--you can't use the Rove playbook for a progressive campaign.
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