Screw the lower middle-class

I'm gonna say something decidedly un-Democratic. You can only help people who want to be helped. When the poor and debt-burdened lower middle-class in this country have their brains infected with so much feel-good religion that they stubbornly vote against their own interests...f*ck em.

I'm pretty well off, and a lot of people on DU are very educated and well off. Yet we spend our days trying to convince the poor to help themselves. But they don't listen...they listen to their Church. Let the Church explain why their lives are getting worse and worse.

Its time for us to start focusing on ourselves, on our friends, and on like-minded people. Its time for us to start contributing to a better world in different ways. Preaching to the intellectually tone-deaf is sucking up our energies and destroying us.

I like that. Can I borrow it?

classes. They concentrated on the "middle-class" those who were most likely to vote. Our missed opportunity is in the fact that we or any party except for the maybe the Greens, ever speak to or about the lower and poor class. We never give them a reason to register and vote for us. We speak past them or ignore them completely. Dennis Kucinish and Sharpton tried to tell us this.

Now you have to give it to the religious right. Wheter they mean it or not, they have learned to use religion to speak to these lower and poor classes, making them feel like they are important and giving them the hope offered by "God and religion." This has paid off for the Republicans who share nothing more with these groups than disdain for their poverty and glee for their vote. They even make these people believe that they are one of them. They appeal to their racism which allows them to shift the blame for their pitful economic condition to minorities, and they appeal to their fears by using 9/11 to the hilt. Were we ever to speak to the poor and for the poor as was done during the civil rights era, we might be celebrating a Kerry victory today instead of hoping for a miracle. But then, we don't believe in miracles, do we?

know what they are doing and they could actually help. If they can't behave like raving Republican lunatics its not their weakness.

Doesn't sound like a winner to me

Check your "Transference of Wealth" tables. Going strong for a generation.

Name the politician who campaigned on "Screw the lower middle class"

Even repukes aren't stupid enough to say that.

to show up to vote.

I'm not going to champion their causes anymore, then. I'm doing okay. I don't need this aggravation.

We already have a party that hates those people. I think America is waiting for one that truly looks out for the working people.

I am as left as it gets, but this election has confirmed my small-l libertarian notion that liberals always think we're saving some poor, exploited underclass -- but what we're doing is saving a bunch of fat, stupid, apathetic people from themselves.

I was hoping yesterday's election would prove me wrong -- but it didn't.

The measure of a nation is how it takes care of its disadvantaged. That is why I am a Dem.

Info Being: is being a Dem about beating George Bush or about caring about others and caring about America? Was winning this election all that's involved with being a Democrat?

I do care about the poor, but I learned in my life that you can't help people who don't want help.

Not only are the people I've tried to help unappreciative, but OTHER people around me mock me for helping them. So explain to me again why I should even fucking try.

I said this in another thread, and it sank, but I've always tried to do "right". It's never, ever been of any benefit to me. Ever.

Fuck EVERYONE else. From now on, I'm in it for myself.

I need to find other meaning in my life, rooting for the underdog isn't cutting it.

It's about making these Republicans understand that they are responsible for the consequences of their actions. Nobody is gonna step in and save them anymore.

never mind

That is the point. These people are brainwashed into this religio-political cult that has emerged in this country. We keep losing more and more political ground because these people don't CARE what we say. They do what the TV and Preacher Bob and Boogyman Cheney says, and they go to their precious wal-mart and drive their SUVs and are convinced that it is God's will that they are the way they are. I have pity for people that cannot put food on the table. I am sickened that people cannot afford medicine and medical care. These people would rather "protect the sanctity of marriage" from us faggots than eat and be warm in the winter. That is pretty damned sad. But you can't shove food down their throats and force them to wear the band-aids national healthcare could provides. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. And these people are not thirsty for our water. They want to make their beds, let them lie in them. God what a string of trite metaphors.

That's exactly it. Remember Clinton's speech this year at the convention, he took the tone we're talking about. "Look, we'll do this for you but you have to want it. If you don't want it, well that just means more for us. Us being the rich."

Treat these Christian bigots like fussy children at the dinner table. Don't plead with them, let them go hungry if they want. They'll learn.

Let them increase their unsecured debt at an alarming rate and save no cash.

I'm bunkering down.

We've always wanted a win-win...but they don't. They've benefited from our generosity, but perhaps no longer. F*ck em.

Corporations know they're solvency is a matter of a few percentage points. But do we?

Gas, meds, food. Nothing else.

sp

I am one of the people who benefited from the tax cut.
I am young and will benefit from privatization of SS.
(I am straight)
I was willing to give it all up (except being straight) for the greater good.

You don't want?

FUCK YOU, YOU CAN HAVE THIS ASSHOLE.
But don't complain..

Health Insurance?
Unemployment?
Draft?
Poverty?

YOU ASKED FOR IT!

That's what I'm talking about.

New Progressive meme: "Fuck em".

It's too much Rush and Hannity. My wish is that all Republican voters will reap what they've sown.

i'll say it again. The upper and middle, middle class are the ones voting for Bush and going to those quaint super churches. Go look at the cars in the parking lot of one sometime. They ain't poor. Not to me.

Anyone can get a fancy car if they are willing to go into debt.

a lot of us are poor. Fuck man, just fuck, I voted, and I voted for Kerry and every Democrat and against the protect marriage amendment. So did my mother, and all of my friends, and none of us makes over 30 thousand a year. Quit peeing in our coffee.

we put up to many barriers to them voting for us, like guns for example.

If we didn't have a hard on to reverse the 2nd amendment we take North Carolina and Virgina and West Virgina.

Hows the map look THEN?

God, guns, and gays. God and Gays are the same fucking issue. We take away the Guns issue, we win.

We already conceded Iraq, seperation of Church and State, etc., etc. Look where it got us.

run on the Republican ones to get votes? Seems kind of counterproductive.

Assault weapons ourselves soon

I saw dozens of pictures and video of Kerry with a rifle, hunting, shooting, even holding one up in the air like Moses. He said that he supported the Second Amendment over and over again, but that weapons designed to kill massive numbers of people are for the military. Jesus, what do the Democrats need to do to convince people, walk around with pistols displayed prominently in holsters around their hips? Go kill somebody?

Howard Dean was highly rated by the NRA. But even he admitted that didn't mean a hell of a lot, since it isn't too hard to guess who they're gonna endorse regardless.

They really piss me off too. During the convention when Edwards was speaking to them and for them, I was sitting there thinking that was nice--but it is a waste of time. I am tired of good people like Edwards standing up for these people, when either they won't vote or they will vote for JAYZUS!! It is very very sad, their own hungry children aren't even enough incentive to educate themselves on the issue. Really just sad, sad, sad.

I came from the same shitty school system as the rest of us, and I did better for myself.

"I came from the same shitty school system as the rest of us, and I did better for myself."----You may be smarter than the average person and you may have better parents too. These are big protective factors against becoming a drone. Most people have to be shown the way.

The information is out there and available to anyone looking. Also, I'm not very smart, but I worked hard at my education. I suspect all of us are responsible for our own smarts.

There is no intellectual curiousity, and they're AFRAID of learning. Their worlds will be ripped apart once they realize that the structure around which they have built their lives is a lie. These ignorant fucks can't handle it, so they stick their fingers in their ears and close their eyes.

Liberals live in a hard world -- a world where the villains and the heroes don't always wear the right hat colors, and where they sometimes switch roles. We understand that foreign relations are complex and delicate; we understand that there are societal needs for individual expression. Liberals live in the world that allows people to speak freely, even when the speech is unbearably ugly. Liberals can parse all sorts of quirky contradictions and human follies that Bush conservatives refuse to face.

The complexity is what they fear. A modern-day Wyatt Earp who promises to rid the world of all the bad people is a lot simpler (and a lot more soothing) to grasp than the documentation that comes out of an arms summit. A guy who says an "ownership society" is the solution to the healthcare crisis sure makes the math easy.

it will do until the real thing comes along.

When working class people are discussed at DU, the word "they" is thrown around a lot, and "they" are generally described as some strange and distant subculture, like the cargo cultists of the South Pacific.

Therein lies the problem. When the "Left" considers the working class something bizarre and unfamiliar and, in the case of this thread, a burden best discarded, then it is no longer a Left in any meaningful sense of the word.

I know of many people my age (mid-twenties) that have been totally screwed by the system. Many of us come from lower middle class to poor families. We went to college because our parents always preached the importance of a college education (and they were not wrong to have done this because it is important). We have degrees, but no good jobs to speak of. We have college debt on top of our regular bills that we can barely pay. We cannot afford health insurance for our families. Also, lots of people our age are fighting over in Iraq.

I'm so glad you did better for yourself, but don't hold it against other people if they haven't achieved your level of success in life yet. The odds are stacked against them right now. Remember that a good college education is no guarantee of success in life. This has been especially true in the last four years of the Bush administration. We need to have jobs that people can actually get when they graduate college. Outsourcing has eliminated tons of jobs that our college graduates would have right now. We actually have lots of people that are working jobs that require far less education than what they have obtained. Don't assume the system is fair, because it is not.

paying contract BUT BUT BUT ... it is pay as you go and downsize my $$$ and yes I can live cheap for whatever it takes to make it thru 4 more Bush years.... I do not want to but.....

I still consider myself working class. My father is working class, as are many of my friends, union members I know, etc. We all voted dem.

What the fuck happened to the rest of us? Yes, I know about the redirect of economic issues to stupid issues.. er.. I mean 'moral issues'... But how long can this trick hold up?

I guess this is why I HATE religion, because it collectively dumbs down the populace. Marx was right.

For these folks religion is the only thing that keeps them from blowing their brains out, the hope that they'll receive their just rewards for a shitty life in heaven. So, they must vote against those babykillers who won't let little Cheyenne pray in school and who want homosexuals just walking around like they were HUMAN, without considering the effect to which they are being FUCKED OVER by those in power.

My familiy is very well off. All three of the kids will have gone to college, at least two to an exepnsive private one. Family income from all sources was about thirty times the average Southern Republican. So we certainly benefit from the Bu$h economy.

I don't know what the hell is wrong with these people, but if they want to keep doing this shit, fuck them.

Start splitting us into groups, divide the party, asswipe. I am lower middle class but apparently I have alot more class than you. I may not be "educated" but I have an IQ pushing 160 and every single person I know in my "lower middle class" voted for Kerry. "Poor and debt burdened". I like that. What you think you are better than me??? I have 3 kids one adopted. My wife has Muscular Dystrophy. I work incredibly hard and long hours to keep my family afloat. We are one of those familys that lost their health insurance in the last 4 years. And under Bush's regime apparently Muscular Dystrophy has become a curable disease and my wife can't get her social security even though she has been paying in for 30 years. And now because the election was rigged I gotta listen to weak ass people like you cave in on the first fucking day. Maybe being "well off and educated" also makes you a wimp...

We've been united for the past few years and we had a good run, but it wasn't good enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'll still vote Dem. But I'm done preaching to the intellectually tone-deaf.

I wasn't talking to you and I have no desire to fight with you. Maybe I'm talking to religious freaks...I don't know.

and I shouldn't have said party, especially since I'm a registered independant. I'm just tired of the blame game, if Kerry loses we need to not figure out who's to blame but who's going to be the "deep throat" that will take down the Bushies...

Thanks for speaking out. I'm so sorry for your family's situation.

That is it. That is what is wrong with the Democratic party. Workers and the poor see the party as elitist and hypocritical. The working class doesn't get excited about the Democratic party because the Democratic party has abandoned the workers and embraced corporate interests.

Sorry, all of us here are not very educated and well off.

Did you vote for Nader again this time? Or just in 2000?

Get it through your skulls-- he wasn't a factor this year! This country is on the long march to fascism-- stop looking for bogeymen under the bed to pin it on.

being a Democrat meant you had a different mind-set, a different basic belief system from the repugs. "Screw 'em," and "let em' suffer" and "you just can't help some people," seem to be the attitudes that I hate in the repugs. What are yall going to say next? "You just can't get good help these days?" Yall have lost the true meaning of what it means to be a Dem....did you even listen to Barak Obama or John Kerry during the convention? What in the world are YOUR values? Do you believe winning is everything? Win at all costs? The means justify the end?

For what price your soul? An election?

Of course I care deep down, but it is destroying me. Sorry, I'm being selfish right now. I'll stop.

I think Cats against Frist put in succintly up above:

"I am as left as it gets, but this election has confirmed my small-l libertarian notion that liberals always think we're saving some poor, exploited underclass -- but what we're doing is saving a bunch of fat, stupid, apathetic people from themselves."

Although I disagree that the problem is their weight or intelligence or educational level. I think it's more that the people who voted for Bush are buying into hatred of gays and minorities and "furriners" and fear and ignorance.

I agree with info being that people can easily educate themselves in this country and find out the truth if they want to, but the Bush voters don't want to.

I have been asking the same question all along. How can the Democratic party ever succeed at bringing onboard the very people that hate us and blame us for their own problems? If Kerry had went and said something like, "I will go and kick every single Arab's ass and kill them all and let God sort 'em out!" and "I will make sure those gays go back in the closet" or whatever, these people would have voted for him like crazy!

What good can it do to cater to them and their hatred and bigotry?

"Let the Church explain why their lives are getting worse and worse."
couldn't aggree more

My new motto--
YOU ASKED FOR IT! DON'T BITCH TO ME!

because the churches' explanation would be that that it was Satan and the liberals causing their lives to get worse along with all those evil "others." They would encourage them that soon they will all be swept up into heaven and get their rewards for their suffering on earth; and "don't forget your tithe envelopes."

The op expressed what has lurked beneath the surface and festered and grown in the Democratic party for the last 20 years. The party has come to be dominated by educated suburbanites and arm chair ideologues and there is a decided and persistent bias against the poor, the working people and minority people.

The only issues that the party campaigned on were either in reaction to the Republicans hot button issues, or in the interest of upper middle class educated white people. That constituency is just not big enough to build a mass movement around.

DU is just full of mocking ridicule of the opposition as stupid, red necks, fundies and on and on. NAFTA and WTO, ending the war, universal healthcare - strong stands on those issues would have crushed the Republican issues, but that would require letting "fundies" and "rednecks" into the elite club, it would require reaching out to the African American community instead of pandering, and it would require going against the party's corporate financers. It would require courage, compassion and inclusiveness.

These are the things that at one time defined the Democratic party, and were the basis for a broad alliance. Today, I can't even POST these ideas without being attacked by Democrats.

on edit - changed subject for clarity

every branch of governing, so my values don't matter. Talk to me about a different mind set when gay people lose their rights to happiness and equality, talk to me about different belief systems when doctors can be executed for performing abortions that would save a woman life, and YES..YOU CAN'T get good help these days, help was ON the way and 51% of Americans said, F*K it! This wasn't about winning, it was about putting down the bible and picking up the bill of rights...now it's about putting down the bill of rights and ruling by the bible!

America's soul was sold to Osma on 9/11 when we gave up everything in the name of terror.

If you take the beginning of the Progressive Era to be 1890 (an arbitrary date to be sure, but workable), consider that it took more twenty years to get child labor laws passed and more than thirty years to get Workman's Compensation laws passed and more than forty years go get Social Security passed. That represents a generation of tough sledding, as labor organizers tried to teach working people that they weren't helpless before the boss, and that they had a right to a better life.

We've got a new project here. A generation of Americans have grown up believing that the literal interpretation of the Bible is not only not theologically absurb, but also a decent roadmap for running a country. These Americans need to be taught that their spiritual leaders, regardless of their true motivation, are helping corporate interests destroy our country. They are being sold a spiritual bill of goods.

This is going to be a tough sell, and I can guarantee you that it won't happen in the context of a six-month, highly-partisan presidential campaign. I'm forty-three years old, and my hope is that I'll live long enough to see a day when Christianity is not the handmaiden of Capitalism. I'd like to tell you that I know how to start the process, but I don't. Regardless of the outcome of this election, it's a issue that Democrats and Liberals need to wrestle with in the coming years.

in this rich country like you and "like-minded people" like you.

But you have to blame your bankrupt system on somebody, don't you?

As America's foreign creditors start pulling out their money from your ramshackle plantation, and you and your dollars become like Confederate currency, worthless, and your fabulous education is worth nothing, and you find your own standard of living plummeting, who will you blame then, as you join us here in the lower classes?

You should do the same.

Would you lend me some of yours?

kill of a lot of us.

----------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/

those of us with political consciousness prefer to be called working-class. And I don't need some rich prick telling me what to do or posting threads insulting my class. Screw you. This liberal elitist bullshit is why the Repugs are in power.

You and the rest of you god-damn "Limosine Liberals" in your fucking gated communities and your Volvos and 2.7 perfect kids going to Ballet and Soccer and "Playgroup" (whatever the fuck that is)..

"I'm pretty well off, and a lot of people on DU are very educated and well off..."

Well, Hip-Hip-Fucking HOO-RAY for YOUR side!

I'm POOR, asshole, and don't you fucking forget it!

Elitist Shit-bag.

If the mods want to delete that message as a personal attack, then it's only fair to delete this entire thread, as it is a attack on working-class people in general, and this sort of elitist, classist bullshit has no place here.

Remember -- one of the stages of grieving is anger. But,

I live in a red state and you know what? I do not see the poor voting Republican. I see the white, semi-educated, church-going, upper middle class voting Republican. That is their base. Those who are close enough to "making it" or making enough money -- whatever that means -- that they feel they have a real shot at being part of the financial elite that the Republican party caters to. Yeah, there are plenty of poor people who vote against their interests, but they're doing so for other reasons and being used by the Republican party.

Saying that we should forget the poor -- that's crazy! The conservatives win because they are able to play to ignorance and fear, which is caused a lot of times from a lack of education. The public schools have been being short-changed for a long time. Those in power want to keep as many people in the dark as they can.

Yes, I grew up poor and yes, I was able to get an education and see the world for how it is, even overcoming a Fundamentalist background, but the odds are against doing that. We need to change those odds!

I'm in central Florida, and I have observed that your statements tend to be true. Most people at my apartment complex are not very well off. I have spoken to a lot of them at the pool area and everyone has expressed much dissatisfaction with George Bush. Surprisingly, many of these people who are struggling also have college degrees, just like my husband and I. They know they are getting screwed.

My husband works at a public high school in a very affluent community. The over-whelming sentiment at that school is very pro-Bush.

My husband and I also come from lower-middle class backgrounds and we have college degrees. We are still struggling to get by. I was not happy to read the original post that started this thread.

We need to try our best to stop stereotyping each other. It divides us. This country is divided enough already!

Sorry. Why the hell do we court "them?" I have seen way too many of them supporting the right wing, primarily over social issues. Let the republicans have them. They seem to all vore for bush.

I am poor, poor as shit.I have disabilities from being brought up in a home that was abusive.I have an IQ of 180(not joking) I do not work.

Why? Because I can't take the stress and become very vilagent because of my history.I have damage from what I grew up in.Now,Sure I'd
like help but I ca't get at it.There is no cure for PSTD.
I was in psych places and I saw the clients bullied, neglected, abused even eugenics carried out there.

Now Look There are bullies in this world and traumatized people like me.
There are people who identify with bulliues and those who don't.There are people who ENABLE bullies.

Rich boys think,Who has been bullied? Who goes hungry,.thirsty and gets beaten?Who has nowhere to turn?

I think the pootr are looking for a savior because the DEMOCRATS sold out lomng ago they became MANAGER bullies. Managing everything but not letting people use the things they gave FREELY.Every bit of help I got came with a price tage thatr lined someone elses pockets.

Dems are gyuilty of playing money games too the poor see through it and call it republican lite,So the poor haveing nowhere to go no one to trust,seek help they mistakenly feel is untainted by greed in heaven.
'
Alot of the dems are sold out (Kerry was a repug tool,uncharismatic shying from the issues the dem party picked a loser from the start on purpose I think),The repugs are Waay sold out(theyre fascists) The churches are rotting on the inside(money and power).

Eventually the poor will run out of places to turn to that they can trust,so either they will self destruct(what elitists hope for) or bite the hands of the wealthy(what socialists hope for so they can have a chance to be the bully class this time).
If society can geive up the persuit of dominance of power over,stop the bullies and abusers,Stop the Egos and greed heads,stop the liars and petty bullshit we might begin to grow up as a culture and see past the master and slave games we play.
Yes people can refuse your help,Ever ask WHY they are refusing it?

Ask Why and maybe you will understand why your "good will"money is not all that good,to those recieving it ,If you got the guts to ask them why.
I can tell you why I don't trust psych rehab programs or Prps which flourished during the clinton era.I have mad pride.I say fuck social control through psychiatry.(and I am no scientologist they are a fuckin'cult IMHO)Alot of liberal ideals is lets help the nuts get to work and be"normals"..They never stopped to ask ME what I might want and what facilitates MY future happiness.Nope they had an agenda attached to thier"help".

My mom voted Kerry, My friends whom most are poor voted Kerry.
There is a freaky side of poor.
There are alot of poor gutterpunks,freaks gays and non Christians out there.Alot of young people and mentally ill who do not trust Bush and would NEVER vote fascist because Hitler killed off the mentally ill first..So Don't lump ME in with the fundies because I am poor you fuck head.
You are sounding like a black and white simpleton Bush. Do you turn fascist when things get hard,when situations don't go your way,you don't understand why, and you lose that feeling of control you never had?
I bet alot of Dem's are closeted righwingers if they think they might lose or may not get their way and their"help" with a million strings attached is refused,.This thread shows the taint in the Democratic parties heart.Making this party untrustable..It's that RW might makes right poison overriding the goodwill of the bullies in our midst.

There are those of us who aren't and who rely on programs like Social Security and Medicare to get by. These safety nets are being eroded as I speak and it will get worse. When my husband dies for lack of medical care and I'm out on the street, will you open your doors to me?

I didn't think so.

of some slum or shantytown, will we poor people who are already living in these places open our doors and arms to him even though he would fold his arms and slam his door in our faces? That's the question he should be asking.

If I had a house of my own with a door to open...
I live in my moms basement.There isn't much space here.
My mom has opened her house to people we knew who were in trouble before,she has done what too many people are terrified to do,share thier excess living space with another person in need.
When my mom was younger she said privacy wasen't so culturally conditioned to be so absolute.Community was more communal.

The way to NOT be explioited is to have interpersonal /relational boundaries and enforce them.
Funny how bullies work on idividuals confusing thier boundaries concerning what respectin a relationship is or what real kindness is or is not.What abuse is or is not.
Our culture is glued together with lies,corruption, abuse and cocercion.

what did the trees and animals do for us to get Kerry elected?

One of my first of the day! =)

the lower the income - the more voted for Kerry.

Also - blacks mostly voted for Kerry.

I think the vote for Bush mostly reflects mid-level income+ white people.

Soccer mom subrbia and the NEW sorta have money..


And these people are being worked silly and don't wanna lose the little bit they got.

What they don't realize is they have been used and will be discared like a used condom by the wealthy class they ape.
When we all compete against each other no one wins.

And how many DUers and fellow dems did you just write off in you desire to seek safety with your fellow elite?

Your words are ill-advised and you sound like a Republican; maybe people in the lower middle class don't like be lectured by their "betters". Next time, try talking with them instead of talking down to them.

is that this party has incorporated demand-side economic policies into its platform. Demand-side policies are superior to the supply-side/starve the beast policies of the rightwing in sustaining and growing capitalism. Capitalism feeds on consumers, which means we must enact policies that provide enough resources so consumers keep consuming. Republicans have it ass-backward, they provide the lion share of resources to suppliers and producers. Well, when consumers are not able to consume, how can we expect increased production and supply? DUH.

As for all the social issues like God, guns and gays, I don't give a flying fuck. I would just fine if we had a theocracy where social justice and economic liberalism were the main policy objectives. Sociall, speaking I am ambivalent, economically I am liberal (in the FDR sense, not the LBJ sense).

the Dem's did that AGES ago maybe that's why some of the working class gave up on them.

Rabid agreement on "Free Trade" agreements that push manufacturing and other jobs overseas, no action on affordable health care? no decent action on education? pandering to the middle class (called "aspirational voters where I am - it means selfish arseholes voting for a wee tax cut)repeatedly standing candidates that seem even further away from the lives of the working class than half the GOP??

Besides do you really think it was only "educated upper class" Dem's that voted for Kerry - every single working class person voted for Bush did they?? and not a single middle/upper class educated person voted for Bush??

It's precisely THIS attitude that's fucked left leaning parties across the western world.

I HATE the terms "elitist" liberal or "chardonnay socialist" but when you see crap like the original post I can understand how they gained such currency

:puke:

Don't put all lower middle class people in the same damn category! That's just fucked up! Oh, I'm lower middle class too.

I hope most of you "well off" DU'ers don't think this way. If it is, then I must be in the wrong fucking party!!

That's right, let the republican stereotype of the "limosine riding liberals" stick!!

Stupid, fucking crap!!

And as such, we should never forget our neighbor in not only good times but in times of need. It is that simple....It is the reason that I feel the Democratic party is the one that should be heard more...

As my sister always says and I firmly agree, when you see someone on the streets and they look in need, try not to judge, and always remebmer, "There By The Grace Of God Go I"....

IN the end, we will not be judged by our stupid earthly possessions but by how we treated our fellow human beings..in my mind it is that simple..

So far we've narrowed it down to Christians, southerners, 18-24s, the bourgeoisie, the proletariat, DLC centrists, Nader supporters, Jews in Florida, Diebold execs, or Kerry himself. Are we missing anyone? Perhaps gypsies or people in wheelchairs?

Important lesson here.

and not ones like DUers on this board. You did not make this clear, however. Please specify next time you attack an entire demographic.

I understand to some extent what you mean - just recently I was arguing with several people who make about $30,000/year why it is fair and necessary that I pay far higher income taxes than they do, and I was basically pleading with them to vote in their own best interests. It was totally ineffective.

and you made some very sweeping generalizations.

You seem to be associating "well-off" with "very-educated." All of my friends are and always have been very intelligent and progressive, and all but a few belong in the poor or lower middle income bracket.

And you seem to be associating the church-going poor with fundamentalism. I personally know of wealthy fundamentalists who put their money where their beliefs are and THEY are the ones you should be concerned about.

The poor, because they have seen more hardship in life, have a more balanced view of life and are not one-issue voters. The comfortable middle class and wealthy have, or think they have,the luxury of doing this.

Maybe with luck, the economics of the Bush administration will give you a chance to take a crash course in Life of the Working Poor.
You apparently need it.

in which to control the masses. Churches have historically been and continue to be obedient schools for the easily persuaded.

My (our) tools of reason and logic cannot penetrate the faith-based armor of the bewildered herd.

Oh BRAVE NEW WORLD……….

The lower the income the more likely they were to vote Dem. Sure, there were millions of lower middle & poor people who voted for Bush (mainly those who were voting 'for' values / rural people in the south and plain states).

The point is that it is unfair to blame the poor and lower middle class and say screw them. Most voted for Kerry.

At Free Republic, that is. It would fit right in there.

I'm definitely bookmarking this one, so that I can throw it out next time someone says that "liberal elitism" is just some groundless rumor that Limbaugh made up.

Keep on losin'

that this is precisely the attitude Nixon saw and capitalized on to form the modern Republican majority.

The Dems still haven't beaten it -- his caricature of the liberal elitist is too accurate in too many cases.

Nixon knew how to play this game because he was himself a working-class kid who resented the trust fund crowd that controlled the GOP. He understood the anger that comes from being condescended to all one's life.

And as evil as he was, Nixon had more genuine concern for working people than many of the so-called progressives posting in this thread. I certainly can't imagine him proclaiming "screw the working class."

You sound really discouraged. I'm guessing you have invested a great deal of your personal time and energy into getting to know poor people and impact their political perspective. What kind of outreach efforts have you tried that have failed? Maybe other DUers could suggest some new tactics....

This is interesting. I find that many of the folks I know who fall into the "very low income" economic category are pretty astute about where their best interests are when in comes to voting. And in far too many cases, there are no candidates with any concern at all for their best interests.

And those living in poverty who vote for the candidates least likely to help them are not unreachable at all. Maybe you really have tried. But that would make you the exception to the rule. Most people just give this issue lip service without having spent a moment of their life trying to empower the poor in this country.

How dare you make sweeping generalizations when you admit that you are not working class and neither are your friends. As many of them didn't vote or voted for Bush because they didn't really believe that Kerry could really make anything any better. Anyway, the Democratic party doesn't just advocate programs for the poor and stand for labor because we're trying to get votes. Don't you get that. Let the Republicans make unimformed generalizations like "Poor people are poor because they are lazy." I would not stand with a party like that.

Paramedic making 30k a year, can't afford to buy health care for my family. Point fingers and blaming the 'poor redneck red state fuckers who have less teeth than brains' is not going to help it only serves to alieniate those who share your views. The healing starts with us, and starts TODAY!

Interviews with the poorest people in the midwest, including farmers who are losing everything, stated they voted Bush.

They are poor, losing everything, no education and still voted Bush.

Voted moral issues. Traditional family issues (whatever the hell those are and why they claim ownership. In the end the message was:

The poor voted rich.

Not to single you out, several DUers are using this journalistic buzzphrase unironically. "Sexuality issues" is a more accurate description.

see:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/11/04/VALUES.TMP
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/198057_morality04.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/elections/chi-041103tackett,0,1949136.story?coll=chi-news-hed

that is for the lower class. Fuck'em is right. I'll tell them let God feed your sorry ass, pray you get better, pray that bullet in your back comes out on it's own, pray for shoes, pray that the heat comes back on during the winter, praying is your answer, or ask W. for help.

If you want to know who put Bush back in office, it was affluent white people, very much like the ones running around DU screaming about how the dumb rednecks voted for Bush.

You're blaming the wrong people here.

So, screw me? And my family who cast four Kerry votes? Screw us, and the 250 thousand+ of laid off union workers in my state who are now losing their homes and going bankrupt, but still managed to turn the state of Michigan BLUE - no thanks to YOU, and your ELITIST condescention?

FUCK you!

It is that "I AM so much better than you lazy slackers" attitude that have driven those who used to vote Dem. into the arms of the Repukes, an attitude I have had to spend hours overcoming just to get friends to even consider giving the Democratic party a second chance, which they did this year - no thanks to ELITISTS like you.Your attitude will be welcomed by the Republicans, maybe you really should join them!

FUCK YOU!

Think about it, democrats gradually make people richer. Richer people vote republican. The more successful democrats are, the smaller their base, over time.

And it's an ugly cycle, because republicans make people poorer, and thirty years from now, what's left of America will be desparate for democratic leadership.

I'm feeling that way, too, now.