Stolen. Stolen right in front of our lying eyes....

Luckily, we have the media and a raft of apologists to set us right.

Much more later (I'm off on family business for a while), but here's the bottom line:

Random, post canvas audits of a voter verified paper trail regardless of the voting method used or else you can look forward to more of the same.

I mean, I can believe you or my lying eyes.

:eyes:

And those AP/Fox exit polls were just radically wrong. /sarcasm

to say Great job W. Or more accurately, they stood in line to say, "No fucking way to John Kerry".

We got our asses kicked. The sooner we accept that and learn from our mistakes this cycle, the better off we're going to be.

If we continue down the tinfoil road, the Democratic party will die.

:shrug:

David Dill, Bev Harris, Andy Stephenson et al W would be packing for Crawford right now.

Tinfoil, indeed. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

On Edit:

And in case you haven't noticed, YOUR SIDE, the side that denies BBV is real, is the one whose strategy was followed. Worked well, huh?

"And in case you haven't noticed, YOUR SIDE, the side that denies BBV is real, is the one whose strategy was followed. Worked well, huh?"

Well said, Junkdrawer. Thanks.

the Dem party is already dead in the water. RIP

If people don't believe their votes are counted, and/or don't have access to voting they sure as hell are not turning up for the 2008 candidate. It's not enough to capitulate anymore.

Did Howard Dean teach us nothing? It's the anger, stupid. It's the passion, stupid. If you really believe the other side had the passion for George W. Bush, I don't know how you can stay in this country much less continue to be a Democrat.

But that's just me. I'm still believing in the people of this country even after (apparently) my candidates have given up,and my party has given up.

it to Kerry?
I know you are enjoying the prospect of being politically raped by wingnuts but are you nutz too?

In only ONE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

Exit polls are used to indicates instances of voter fraud in emerging democracies by election monitors. They were correct in even the United States until the year 2000.

Why is America the only country where we change EXIT POLLS to match PAPERLESS electronic voting reults?

I've seen you post on this subject numerous times... alway deriding the notion that paperless electronic voting machines and tabulators can throw an election.

You are underinformed and need to bone up on the FACTS regarding electronic voting equipement.

Electronic equipement that uses SECRET CODE.

E-voting machines that produce results with results showing significant anomalies with polls.

fraud in Florida using the op-scan voting machines.

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

Just for example:

Franklin County. 77.3% of voters registered Dems. Only 15.9% registered Reps. 58.5% of the votes reported FOR BUSH???

Holmes County. 72.7% of voters registered Dems. Only 21.3% registered Reps. 77% of the votes reported FOR BUSH???

Calhoun County. 82.4% of voters registered Dems. Only 11.9% registered Reps. 63.4% of the votes reported FOR BUSH???

Hard to believe those counties had normal increases of up to 300% of * votes from 2000. For anybody needing evidence the fix was in, just look at that website, thanks, cryingshame. Good find.

Thanks! This information is very important.

Can you list any figures for Ohio?

on this, cryingshame!

Let's assume that the E-Touchscreen voting figures are correct (they may not be of course), and calculate the percentage increases in the Rep and Dem votes compared to the Expected Votes totals.

Next apply those Rep and Dem percentage increases to the Expected Votes totals for the Op-Scan-Precinct voting figures. (Possibly more refinement is required at this stage, but these calculations should at least give ballpark figures.)

Then add those Rep and Dem calculations to the Actual Results of the E-Touchscreen voting figures, and look at these overall Rep and Dem totals.

these graphs here, robbedvoter!

Your graphs will be "debunked" because, for example, in Florida the discrepancies occurred not in touchscreen counties, but in optical-scan counties.

There has been considerable effort to paint the BBV problem as solely one of touchscreen systems with no paper-trail. But that's not it. It's an AUDITING issue.

ALL SYSTEMS USED IN VOTING SHOULD BE AUDITED WITH THE SAME RIGOR AS WE USE TO AUDIT FINANCIAL SYSTEMS.

Here's the phrase that strikes terror into the hearts of the Diebold crowd: Generally Accepted Accounting Principles

Gotta keep this kicked

there is no other way to explain it... i am so pissed off!!!

:kick:

I'm so happy you are paying no attention to the naysayers on this Board who think that the bushits couldn't possibly be guilty of hacking voting machines!

was ever was amassed in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD, it doesn't mean that they would actually do it. After all, that would be cheating.

So stop with all this tinfoil conspiracy stuff. /NPR Mode off

We have a right to have it demonstrated to us beyond any doubt that the vote totals are accurate. The burden of proof is not on us. The burden of proof is on the elections officials. Any suspicion is grounds for a complete investigation.

This is the whole ball game. Give in on this and we lose everything.

You wrote: "We have a right to have it demonstrated to us beyond any doubt that the vote totals are accurate."

Is that a constitutional right or are you claiming a human right?

Thanks for kicking this thread on this important issue.

Are you suggesting that the people in a representative democracy do not have the right to free and honest elections? The Constitution, by the way, affirms human rights so there is no obvious distinction between the two, contrary to what your post implies.

If it is "burden of proof", who decides whether there is adequate proof or not? If it is "beyond any doubt", again who decides? Should everyone be satisfied beyond any reasonable doubt?

In this specific election Ohio and Florida are probably the most critical states in question. What do you suggest? Recounts? Examination of voting machines?

Give Jimmy Carter a call if you are confused about what a fair election is and how to tell if it is. If you aren't a Democrat and have a problem with Carter, then we will come up with the name of another election authority for you. Running and monitoring and auditing and verifying fair elections isn't rocket science. Elections that cannot be demonstrated to be fair need to be tossed out. Don't try to make this complicated. We have been running elections in this country for quite a while now.

Although paper trails are available for some of the voting in some states, there is not a paper trail for *many* of the voting machines used in the 2004 US elections.

So what do you propose should be done now; should there be some kind of recount in the Ohio and Florida counties? Should there be examinations of the voting machines? What do you propose should be done today?

In 1980 the South had 26 Democratic Senators, today it has 4. If you look at the national "red versus blue" map at both State and County level it is not hard to see that the DNC has become very isolated from the mainstream of this nation.

2 to 1 Americans classify themselves as conservatives and many moderates vote to the right, not the left on many issues.

Bush has one Achilles Heel that will bring him down, take the wind out of his Imperial Sails and that is 9-11.

I was part of the 9-11 Confronting the Evidence in NYC this year. I was part of the criminal complaint that was delivered to Eliot Spitzer on October 28, 2004.

Over 55 million voted against and many of those voters were ecumenical Christians you people are blindly bashing. They were Conservative Republicans and Libertarians that crossed over to try to stop the Bush Junta and the fascism that is represents.

Right here in Arkansas - two key counties that NEVER vote REP did vote Republican this year. Jefferson and Nevada counties and there were others.

The problem with DNC is DNC and that it represents the fringe left and that is NOT America folks. 2 to 1 says this nation is a conservative nation and one that puts certain values front and center every time.

www.karlschwarz.com

http://www.reopen911.org/petition.php

http://www.justicefor911.org /

All of this talk about running Hillary Clinton in 2008. The RNC has been ready to destroy her since 1994. The strategy that took the House and Senate away from Clinton was designed and largely financed by me. Again, run Hillary, rash into the side of the mountain. They are just waiting for another stupid DNC move.

I took a stand for America, freedom, a turning away from Imperialism and fascism. I have received hundreds of emails from Dems asking what to do now. Frankly, DNC is not "resuscitate-able" in its current form. Lest no one noticed, Bush now controls a stronger US Senate and that is more frightening than him being there for 4 more years.

Every person that voted against Bush should be on those petitions linked above.

It is the only hope you have to stopping Bush, and I am the only Republican of the 100 original names on the petition.

If you have not done so, go to my website under Articles and read the DEMAND LETTER that I sent to Bush September 30, 2004 about 7 hours before the first debate and THEN - get this CLEARLY INTO YOUR HEADS -

that DEMAND LETTER was sent to DNC and Kerry too and they did not use it in the debates to evicerate Bush. CONSIDER THAT!

Both sides of the aisle are covering up 9-11 folks, who did it, who is profiting from it and they are AMERICANS.

Ashcroft was forced to resign due to that letter and I was advised from DC yesterday to NOT accept that as the sacrificial offering and let the rest of the DOERS OF 9-11 OFF THE HOOK!

Wake up Dems.

Karl