Could Kerry truly be doing a rope-a-dope?

Do the honorable thing, concede - and then go guerrilla behind the scenes to root out fraud - to expose it in the coming weeks?

I'm not saying this will happen. But I could see someone like him being crafty like this...

I only bring this up because of the mysterio Atrios post.

The movement continues! Whatever that means.

to your thread.

PS - I'm hoping for the same, otherwise BBV will win from here on in.

www.atrios.blogspot.com

For some odd reason I and a few other DUers can't see the post. But others say it's there - right at the top of the page.

Do you see it?

they need to scroll down

www.atrios.blogspot.com

For some odd reason I and a few other DUers can't see the post. But others say it's there - right at the top of the page.

Do you see it?

If we see something start to happen, great...otherwise, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Thursday, November 04, 2004

Something's Coming

The movement continues...stay tuned.

-Atrios 1:58 PM

Comments (255) | Trackback (0)

given Kerry's BCCI performance and generally high knowledge and ability to be informed I wouldn't discount it. He has always been all about justice.

This is my fantasy scenario .... but chance of it
coming true are like winning the lottery.
We'll see

Our leadership has never been this quiet.

Because I have felt the same way all afternoon and this started before I read the mysterious "something's coming"

but in reality i doubt it...i wish we could speak to him right now in private..

i think most of us are just still trying to cling onto any kind of hope...Atrios seems to be f8cking with us, or has some sh8t about something we don't care about

it's because the numbers were not very good for him. but they did say he votes will continue to be counted as they should. and i'm not holding any hope on this but if there was a change in his favor he could grab on to it. but this wasn't like florida in 2000 with very few vote difference. the difference wasn't even small enough to get an automatic recount.

hmmm....

I doubt it too. Just a thought.

Mark Crispin Miller today in Salon said this:

First of all, this election was definitely rigged. I have no doubt about it. It's a statistical impossibility that Bush got 8 million more votes than he got last time. In 2000, he got 15 million votes from right-wing Christians, and there are approximately 19 million of them in the country. They were eager to get the other 4 million. That was pretty much Karl Rove's strategy to get Bush elected.
But given Bush's low popularity ratings and the enormous number of new voters -- who skewed Democratic -- there is no way in the world that Bush got 8 million more votes this time. I think it had a lot to do with the electronic voting machines. Those machines are completely untrustworthy, and that's why the Republicans use them. Then there's the fact that the immediate claim of Ohio was not contested by the news media -- when Andrew Card came out and claimed the state, not only were the votes in Ohio not counted, they weren't even all cast.
I would have to hear a much stronger argument for the authenticity, or I should say the veracity, of this popular vote for Bush before I'm willing to believe it. If someone can prove to me that it happened, that Bush somehow pulled 8 million magic votes out of a hat, OK, I'll accept it. I'm an independent, not a Democrat, and I'm not living in denial. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1317154&mesg_id=1317154

Remember the difference in Florida didn't actually start out that small...all kinds of funky things were discovered in the two weeks following election night.

Ballot boxes full of ballots in places where they weren't supposed to be and recall also the two "GOP operatives" that were left alone in two precincts for two weeks with their lap tops to "correct" some absentee ballot applications and not to mention voter intimadation of blacks (road blocks) the felon list/choicepoint scrub...etc etc on and on.

My only point is that in Gore v Bush a lot of shit didn't hit the fan until many days and weeks after the election.

And since I have calmed down (I had a real stick up my ass yesterday)
I can certainly see why they would adopt such a strategy...

It would be much better to blind side the repukes later, if they do find evidence of fraud, rather than to string the deal along with no proof and then look like fools and "sore losers" if they can't prove anything.

Additionally we know where the courts would have taken this
(a bush "victory") and we know where congress would take it (another bush "victory")

I don't see either of those men as quitters and they certainly aren't ignorant of the legal process.

Again maybe wishful thinking on my part... or perhaps they felt there would be legal recourse later and are playing a bait and switch?

The best strategy is to not let them know you're coming for them.

I am really starting to wonder what is really going on.

It's not rope-a-dope, it's just good PR. He concedes, calls for unity, and shuts up. Everyone including Bush has to say nice things about how graciously he bowed out. Meanwhile his commanders go to Ohio, Florida and New Mexico to push for the provisional vote counts, claiming they are just helping local Democrats.

That's the way Nixon fought in 1960, and he is still treated with respect to this day. Of course, he lost, and Kerry likely will, too, but there wasn't much he can really do about it. In Nixon's case, overcoming the cheating wasn't enough to put him in office. With Kerry, it's hard to say yet.

Indeed. The final chapter is not yet written.

...have got to be doing something.

so there is money.

they know how to ask.

And "moron" and they were up on the CNN website this morning
(HUGE LOL)

You never know there could be pockets of resistance out there even in what seems like Repuke country.

If they could do this in secret, there's no need to. The counts are supposed to occur, according to state laws, even in Ohio. There are local races involved. All that has to happen is in Democratic regions election supervisors need to make sure their conditionals are counted, and in Republican regions Democrats have to force them to count.

If the counts are done at the local level in eight days in each precinct or county, there is no big picture view of what the counts are finding, so the media doesn't have to jump on it until the numbers are reported. So that makes it harder for the Republicans to whine and throw their little tantrums.

Here in Austin the Democrats swept the county, mostly. Our sheriff, our judges (even the ones everyone expected to lose), and one of our state legislators all won, even in some cases against popular Republican incumbents. One of our state rep candidates (mine, unfortunately) lost by 135 votes to a very, very popular incumbent. But hang on. The conditional and absentee ballots haven't been counted yet, and they are estimating more than 2000. Obviously, Kelli White, my rep who lost by 135 votes, will push to have those counted. The Repub may oppose them, of course, but there is still a chance she could win the election.

That will be the case in Florida and Ohio, too. So those politicians can all push for the provisional votes to be counted without it looking like Kerry is behind it.

And Hell, maybe Kerry is clueless (Like MC Miller implies), but that won't stop others from pushing.

I'd be stunned if anything was reversed by a count of these ballots. I'd be stunned if many of these ballots weren't being destroyed as we speak in Republican districts. But the count should go on, even if some cheat. If these ballots are overwhelmingly Democrat, maybe that will raise a flag.

The thing is, if Bush cheated, there will be proof. If people in Ohio look hard enough, they will find it. I'd like to see people get the black boxes, vote 2000 votes in each one on the old ballots using the old software, and see what happens. If the counts come up wrong, we know. As for the punchcard and optical machines, someone in Ohio needs to be suing now to gain access to those, whether they are part of an official recount or not. Study them, look for patterns, make sure that the counts that were reported were the counts on these cards.

If he cheated, the evidence is there. It just has to be found. One caution-- don't look for it in groups smaller than four or five. IF it happened, it's not a game to the people who did it.

I hope it's not merely attributable to a mere state of shock.

(Just spoke with a friend in Houston. She's devastated by the results, so far.)

I thought maybe it was the "Sam-E" I started taking a couple of months ago --yesterday I was practically catatonic (when I wasn't yelling and swearing at the TV)

that he may be doing this. I can only hope because I am slipping into this deep depression over 4 more years with the asshole in charge. I can't believe that this has happened, and I feel that my country let me down.

thats all.

if i were the DNC, I would try to do like 20 different polls in OH and FL and see what they come up with.

i wonder if that thought even crossed their minds?

post election polls to further substantiate the validity of the exit polling...Have you posted this idea elsewhere? Faun Otter (posted on DU) did a study of exit poll results compared with both paper ballots and with electronic voting machines. There was a strong correlation between the exit polls and the paper vote, but with electronic voting machines, if Kerry led in the exit polls, George won in the electronic voting machines.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x11874

Exit polls analysis versus reported vote count

Faun Otter

when he refers to "Movement" maybe there are defections from the GOP coming.

And that's all we really have anymore, isn't it? Hope.

We have the responsibility to demand that, in those close states especially, ALL of the votes are counted. Kerry has the resources to follow through on any fight that is brought to his attention. I'm certain that he is working with any and all who are pursuing claims and lawsuits. Whatever votes we uncover and get recorded can tilt the balance in close states and also add to the popular vote total to quash Bush's claims of a mandate.

I think there are some others.

Ohio spoiled and threw out ballots. Never counted military ballots there. Never counted absentees, never counted provisional ballots even though voters were bullied into filing them.

I'm having trouble analyzing the numbers that I can find, when I find them. They are incomplete and still being updated. In most states absentees and military have a week to get their ballots in. Could use some help from folks who know their own state. Here in MD it wasn't near close.

I don't think it's a reaction, I think it's a sense. Also, have not received e-mail from Michael Moore since one day prior to election day.

Something's going down.

He had cameras in all the precincts in Florida and Ohio, didn't he?

no sight of any of the people I would of assumed to see by now..just quiet..and an assurance that all the votes will be counted...or that fraud will be easily provable...

In the movies.....

People sitting in the woods.....

Someone says, "Do you hear that?"

Someone else says, "No. What?"

"Exactly...It's quiet.....Too quiet."

And than all hell breaks loose.You may be right.....

:kick:

:kick: :kick:

I just checked his website and he was and possibly still in OHIO.

I printed out the OHIO results myself and the % of spoiled ballots is much higher in the GOP districts than in Kerry's

Were Kerry votes spoiled in GOP districts??

Something maybe coming, it is an erie quiet

Palast insists it was stolen!!!

I know John Kerry conceded and called for unity, but that would never silence Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Michael Moore, George Soros, etc. Never. So,.... Where is everybody? Not that I mind if there is behind-the-scenes maneuvering going on. Not at all. ;) In fact, didn't Soros offer a multi-million dollar reward to anyone who could prove fraud in the election? It takes an awful lot of people to pull off a massive fraud like this is alleged to be and, yet, it only takes one of those people to come forward and collect that money. Lucky for the GOP this economy is in such great shape and no one would be hurting enough economically to do such a thing as rat out the people who would rat him out in a heartbeat. :evilgrin:

he rope-a-doped the Swift-boat smears he rope-a-doped flip-flop. Seems all he does.

let them do their dirty deeds and the Kerry camp AND BBV are in the process of exposing them. By concedeing so soon, it keeps the cabal out of the courts so as not to confuse things/muddy the waters, it leaves all of the attorneys free to investigate the dirty deeds and we will soon have the results that will bring down the cabal. I can hope.

He won the freaking nomination because of auditless voting machines.
Remember Gephardt demanded a recount in Iowa and was told there was no paper trail. No recounts.

Have you figured out why Kerry conceded so quickly yet?

Even the stars are not ready to give up:

Weekly Forecast for November 01, 2004

So much is happening you hardly know what to do with yourself on Monday. Thankfully, you have enough energy to handle it all. (In fact, you have more energy than you know what to do with.) The next few days, beginning Tuesday, might be unusually emotional and dramatic -- mostly because everyone around you insists on acting crazy and helpless these days -- but by Friday everything will have sorted itself out.

Monthly Forecast for November, 2004

The 1st, you're in your groove. You're hitting all the high notes, you're hitting all the low notes. And if you miss a beat the 2nd, well, that's because the rest of the jazz quartet is feeling off, too. Watch out for discord until the 5th, when a little musical powwow puts you in the bandleader's seat. By the 9th, things will be in full swing