Did you speak to anyone (non-DU) about election fraud and

reform today?

I sent out letters far and wide and heard back from several journalists well-known to progressives. (Have yet to find anyone in MSM who cares about this or wants to touch it.)

I have gotten a ton of hits to my website election reform page this week, more than ever before. That tells me there are a lot of people who are looking for answers out there, who have at least some energy to do something about it if they are bothering to research it.

It's a good sign, folks. A little ray of hope.

Keep on speaking out about how this system has been rigged!

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

(Note: I mentioned it to my husband tonight. He thinks I am a conspiracy theorist nut. He is a very bright man, but he is SO naive. *sigh* )

Sadly, I think this is the attitude of most people except us hard-core DEMS.

x(

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I'm still so angry and sad, I feel like I'm having a mental breakdown.

I'm physically, emotional, and mentally drained.

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local dem committee.

I guess I just need a few more days to let this all sink in.

Every day, I wake up and I think "It's NOV.1 and this all didn't happen."

This loss is going to sting for a while.

standing in for Gore.

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just thought I was paranoid because of 2000 but I showed him the AP story on yahoo..and said..ONE machine was wrong..they all could be wrong...and he started to kinda see what I meant..but he doesn't think bush was behind it??? LOL! I am working on him

no way * could be behind every voting inconsistency and somewhere along the way we wound up going down the gay marriage road, finishing up with him telling me that I am going to Hell and me laughing in his face because there isn't one.


*siiiiigh*


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my hubby voted yes??? but he did vote for Kerry...

its going to take a LOT of evidence to prove fraud...but I think this silence...its not as bad as some people on here migh think..if our people are out there yelling FRAUD we look like poor losers...but if we slam the evidence on the table that can not be disputed...then BOOM...no time for them to cover their tracks...just my theory

I said, "So, you're saying it's not true because people conspired?"

"Right!"

"But you know of cases where people conspired..."

"Yes, and they got caught."

"So, it isn't that people conspired, it's the conspiring and getting away with it?"

"Yes, these things are impossible to get away with."

"Ok, just let me re-hash this to you: There are two kinds of conspiracy theories. There are true theories about the conspiracies that have been uncovered. There rest of the theories about conspiracies are false."

(A little sheepishly) "I guess that is what I'm saying."

"Yeah, that's typical, actually."

it is true unless it's all in the mainstream media. Doesn't believe the media coverage is skewed.

And I have no clue how to get him to understand it.

He is a very frustrating man to live with in times like these!

*lol*

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This is a classic!

You really nail the guy/gal in a humoristic and subtle way, letting them hang themselves ina logic noose. Good work.

but, I'm not crazy. Anyone who refuses to consider that BushCo cheated (especially after the 2000 Florida debacle) is a fool. Yeah, folks, it would be great if everyone followed the rules, but one doesn't have to do much research to know that BushCo thinks they're exempt from what the rest of us consider honorable.

elections.

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of them are just going to put me in the tinfoil category.

You must be firm and calm and non-partisan. It can't be screechy or sound paranoid, and don't talk about Kerry or demonize Bush. Just calmly lay out the case, knowing that not all will hear it. Our job is to put the case in front of people, persistently and calmly. If we keep doing that, it will reach critical mass. Don't try to sell, convince, recruit or argue. This is too important for that.

I have been telling people today - "look I know that you are used to hearing a lot of political stuff from me, and you know my policial positions and so I don't know how credible you think I am. But I have to tell you something and hope that you will understand. This is the most important thing I have ever told you, and I am hoping that you will listen."

I go into the conversation with the attitude that it is the most important conversation I have ever had with the person.

I posted about it on three nonpolitical forums, and graphed some stuff. My husband keeps walking by these last few days, sees me on my laptop, asks "Still plotting the overthrow of the government?" I just nod and say "yep."

My husband tries to avoid asking me questions like that and then I tell him more than he wants to consider, anyway. ;) When he sees me on the computer, he does a very fast about-face. He'll thank me later.

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and she said it was the only explanation that made sense to her.

was repub all her life until she saw * come to power and figured out he is a conniving lunatic.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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Grandma's do. Men are really from Mars! Mine is too. He doesn't even bother arguing with me. He knows better!

They want the links and the info to join the fight.

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Sure have. They all know that Bush didn't get more votes!

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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I lucked out today and rode with one favorite, and then the other. The first, who is a retired mental health counselor, talked about the moral authority Democrats must model -- the authority that comes from generations of championship of middle America and the underclass.

The second, a Vietnam vet, said he didn't think America would exist before four more years is up. He hadn't voted since 1980 before this election! He was scathing about the election, but is adopting a "come what may" attitude. Sort of bitter and resigned.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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Give some a little hope that something is being done.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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stoled the election. But again I talking about Portland OR. I even had one Christian lady say that if he stoled the election that he should be put in jail and be made into some ones girlie man. lol

progressives in red states trying to get the word out. I think the sheer number of negative responses likely to get flung their way would be very demoralizing.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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...solid Massachusetts liberals, but not politically active beyond voting, and the reactions ranged from politely skeptical to pretty negative.

The "exit polls are unreliable" meme has taken hold. It needs to be countered somehow, and we need to get some more evidence and traction for this story before these sad, beaten-down voters will put one iota of energy into getting worked up about this election again. Sadly, not enough people know the track record of exit polling, or understand anything about math.

Lovely that we live in an era of slogans and sound bytes.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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I think it's those of us who are living in areas with a large number of Fundies and right-wingers who are more likely to believe that this election was rigged. After having some long and involved arguments with Bush voters, I can tell you that they would have no qualms about cheating.

every time I've had a white collar office job, my boss has been an insane Harvard business school freeper type. They love Dubya and making sure that they get all the $$ and everyone else does all the 'hard work'.

** is God ones.
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I grew up in central ME and still have lots of family there. Many many crazy little fundy churches.

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until my generation. Many of us rebelled in our teens, and more quietly slipped away in their twenties

I was the first in our family, rebelled pretty hard at age 14 and left for college in MA at 18 feeling fairly bitter and isolated (teenagers are especially good at that!). But over the next few years, my mother and siblings also left the church, and today my 62 yo dad is the only one still believing in Sodom and Gomorrah...

I've spoken to some family and friends who I can talk to about politics.

I have not tried to persuade them that voter fraud actually happened. I just point to the evidence, then say that, "even the reasonable suspicion that this could have happened undermines our democracy." Then they agree with me that getting this fixed needs to be a big priority in 2005. That's how we'll win the people who don't want to think the unthinkable. We say, "just the fact that it's THINKABLE means it needs to change. We ALL need to be sure our votes count."

I can count on these family & friends & others to make the phone calls, etc., when the time for really widespread action comes.

have met folks from other parties, and not just left-leaning ones, who see the value in many types of election reform. They are the ones who prize democracy above party. Hard to find these days. :(

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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All we hear is speculation, a few facts, and mostly silence. The absolute silence from Democrats is deafening. There is a sense from those who are looking that something is going on. The reality based community is in real trouble. (Two months ago I would not have had any idea what that is, Thank you Mr. **)

If they do not do or say something soon I fear the base will crumble.

The only redeeming outcome to the election is the disappearance of the Swift-Boat liars.

This is my last post in regards to any hope people will wake up.

:tinfoilhat:
is how we are being viewed.

GreenPartyVoter I have seen your posts you are a patriot.

Hope was not on the way after all.

Goodbye

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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I dont like it when people give me that "look".

You know, that, "and was the machine sitting in the grassy knoll" look?

politics, faith, or just "So I want to paint the bathroom pink".

I need to get a picture of that sneer so he can see it. Then again, he won't care. He is just made very differently. Emotions don't mean much to him. That's why he has RW tendencies.

*sigh*

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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I just posted something on another thread about this.

We here on DU can sit and preach to the choir, or we can tell the rest of the world about this-- and get them on our side. Our message on the evils of BBV is wasted on the Amen Corner.

We already KNOW the truth. Time to tell the rest of the world.

all the right folks like the activism sites such as Working Assets do. But I am not much as far as webmastering goes, so here is hoping that providing links to finding out where to write will be enough of a nudge, eh?

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Main Stream Media. The media the conservatives are forever bashing as "liberal." used to be a lot different than it was now. There was once a media that the only reason they were on this earth was not only to publish news but were going after truth and exposing things as they really were. After certain policy changes were made concerning media ownership it all changed. This so called "MSM" is now part of corporate America. You know that folks that poured millions of dollars into the Bush reelection fund. Look at ABC once a stellar example of always getting the truth no matter what. Remember how Sam Donaldson used to drive Ronald Reagan absolutely nuts? Sure can't have a white house correspondent like that asking Bush hard, probing questions. But that was then. Now ABC is owned and micromanaged or even macro managed by General Electric. Is there a much bigger single two words in the American lexicon that says "corporation" than GE. Well GM is but it is very few. So when you have corporations that have their hands in the presidents pocket they are not going to allow that kind of fact finding journalism.
Now there may be a point where MSM would have no choice but to join in this business with this clear voter fraud but I submit they are not going to be the ones to do the preliminary digging. That is not in their corporate mandate. GE is not concerned with cutting edge journalism. GE is only concerned with GE.
I will continue to hope with everyone else that this will be exposed. That would be a time of great change in this country.

it will trickle up and we will have more and more reliable and accountable officials. THEN when we finally have the WH and the Hill back, we resurrect the Fairness Doctrine.

Not quick, I know. But still worth the doing.

saved i literally saved her. she told me she voted for kerry and she is so glad that she listened to me and voted kerry because she saw bush yesterday and said if she had voted for bush she would be feeling shame and guilt forever.

i told her the election was stolen. and she was really, and listened to it all. told my husband of course...........he is just sick over election and doesnt want to hear a single thing for 30 days.

and of course my children. my 9 year old asked me immediately when he found out bush won, no hesitation.

i will tell others from here on out as the news break

oh and immediately on spiritual board i put it out. same night of election. many many of them were right on it

but i live in texas, will be saying it to all. no arguement no convincing, just fact

*hugs*

You can do so from my site. Thanks to DUer NewsGuyAtl for the tip!

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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To which I say "that sure didn't help. I don't know why he conceded. Maybe it was Elizabeth Edwards' breast cancer diagnosis that morning."

Ya know?

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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He said it's sad that over 1/2 the country voted for Bush*
I brought up the voting machines and fraud.
He didn't buy it.
I asked him if he thought people would stand in line 4 hours to vote if they were happy with the way things are.
I could see the light coming on.
I don't think he's convinced, but at least he considers the possibility now.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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I tried to talk to Colmes. He blasted some damn white noise into my cell phone 4-5 times until I could hardly hear. Then when I started to make my point about the exit polls he cut me off, said he didn't see any reason for an investigation, and sent me packing.

The mainstream media doesn't want to hear it. It will take a massive grassroots movement to get it into the mainstream news. We're almost there, CNN, Newsweek, USA Today, and other major news networks have expressed interest and are working the stories. If it stays hot, they'll start airing them.

so I am not surprised he didn't give you a chance. :(

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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Most were shocked and dismayed. Besides my Boss I have not talked to anybody that has said they voted for Bush this past week. Of course I didn't bring it up that often but had some customers that did and those that did spoke of Bush with derision. This is in rural Missouri outside Independence.

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Everybody understands computer viruses. They know modems are un-secure. They know computers fuck up all the time. They also know that people don't wait 5 hours in the freezing rain to vote for 4 more years of THIS. It's not a hard concept for people to understand.

Bush already has an MO from 2000. It's not that much of a stretch for non-DUers.

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People shut down immediately. I've only mentioned it to a couple like-minded friends, who feel more or less hopeless about it.

"Count all the votes!" Who could argue with that??? For no other reason than we need to restore faith in the system and find out why the exit polls were so wrong (in certain places).

We could call it "Restoring Faith in the System." Frankly, I'm beginning to think they cheated out of this one -- but we MUST STOP THE NEXT GRAND LARCENY.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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I do two things to set up the discussion:

1. I remind them about allegations of dead voters decades ago (a pet story of theirs about how the evil democrats used dead people to stuff ballot boxes for their candidates). This gets them nodding and agreeing before I even get to part 2

2. I talk about voter fraud in 2000, 2002, and 2004 as a done deal. A proven fact. It's a matter of how I phrase my statements, I leave no room for discussion.

Then, once we're talking (not shouting), I hit them with #3:

Republican MUST get in front of this issue before it is used AGAINST them. If one party can rig voting machines without receipts, the other one can too!

This has been working for me. I've only just begun so I don't have a lot of converts yet, but I've left 100% of them with worried looks on their faces and no shouting.

We must not shout or allow them to shout at us or talk over us. We must talk quietly and carry the big stick of truth and, sadly more importantly, what goes around comes around.

That's all that some of them understand. They don't care what their side does to win but they sure don't want the other side to use the same tactics.

just fine with it as long as it works in their favor. :eyes:

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"Republicans MUST get in front of this issue before it is used AGAINST them. If one party can rig voting machines without receipts, the other one can too!"

They can't argue with that.

Frankly I have enough trouble talking to DEMS about it. Haven't even come close to trying with a Rep.

I live in a red state, so I'm learning to speak their language--though it makes me want to wash my mouth out with soap.

Thanks for trying!

:toast:

was my non-du'er husband's response. He usually calls me a tin foil hatter but I hadn't talked to him about this until it made it to Yahoo (via the AP). I sent him the one story and he knows that where there's one, there's more.

I'm with him "Let the impeachment begin"!!

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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argued that America is much more conservative than what Michael Moore claims, and that it's all about democracy. Bush won, and as part of a democracy, we must accept it.

I am still a bit riled up, so I blasted him back, of which this is part:

It's about disenfranchisement. It's about the thousands and thousands across America, predominantly minorities, who weren't allowed to vote because they'd been purged from the voter rolls. It's about the thousands and thousands of Americans, overwhelmingly minority voters, who voted, but who again won't have their votes counted - because of pregnant chads, dimpled chads etc, which they are several hundred percent more likely to get than white, non-poor voters because the old, badly-vorking voting machines are found in poor minority precincts. It's about those minority voters who, when challenged at the polls, or when they had problems voting on the old and broken-down voting machines, were encouraged, as per Republican SOP, to vote provisionally, and not told their votes won't, most likely be counted. It's about how every anomaly found goes in favor of Bush. It's about how the exit polls got it right in every state, just like in 2000, except in Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and New Mexico. It's about BlackBoxVoting. It's about disenfranchisement.

haven't gotten an answer from him yet, unfortunately.

we had ranked voting.

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FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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What's ranked voting?

a sample ballot and a couple of links to explanations on my site if you are interested in finding out more. :)

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FRAUD and FASCISM.

Most people just asked for definitions.

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My so-workers say I am a conspiracy theorist "a conspiracy around ever corner?" Some just laugh when I said the election was stolen. Really, they laughed as if the thought had never occurred to them!
Some got mad when I said "fascists"... and said "you call them fascists and they call you socialists."

The majority of people I know, have not a clue. ohmygod...have I lost it?

a bad thing, you tell them thanks.

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Paint it as a criminal conspiracy. People do watch "Law & Order". They'll get that. Simply calling it "fraud" does sound like sour grapes.

"Criminal conspiracy" is a much better term, because most people are willing to accept that a criminal conspiracy can be very large in scope. Worldwide, even.

Fuck the corporate media. We're the media, now.

I e-mailed BBC, but they don't give a shit, Tony Blair has them in his back pocket, their all Neville Chamberland lovers over there.