"Marines say the toll is expected to rival those seen in Vietnam War"

Enjoy, Bush voters! USA! USA! USA!
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WITH U.S. FORCES NEAR FALLUJAH, IRAQ - The number of dead and wounded from the expected battle to retake insurgent-controlled Fallujah probably will reach levels not seen since Vietnam, a senior surgeon at the Marine camp outside Fallujah said Thursday.

Navy Cmdr. Lach Noyes said the camp's hospital is preparing to handle 25 severely injured soldiers a day, not counting walking wounded and the dead.

The hospital has added two operating rooms, doubled its supplies, added a mortuary and stocked up on blood reserves. Doctors have set up a system of ambulance vehicles that will rush to the camp's gate to receive the dead and wounded so units can return to battle quickly.

The plans underscore the ferocity of the fight the U.S. military expects in Fallujah, a Sunni Muslim city about 35 miles west of Baghdad, which has been under insurgent control since April.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/2885271

Wasn't that 58,000 in Vietnam?

:)

They are overpreparing people for casualties, so that the casualties that happen won't be such a shock. The soldiers we have there are better trained and equipped than what we had in Vietnam; they enjoy the tactical initiative, which we didn't always have in Vietnam; we far outnumber the "insurgents," which was seldom the case in Vietnam; and their opponents aren't as well armed, positioned, or trained as was the typical Vietnamese. The Vietnamese had artillery and a vast countryside to hide in; these guys are boxed in. There will certainly be casualties, but my guess is it will be in the dozens, not the hundreds.

How do we know there aren't another 100,000 Iraqi fighters surrounding the Marines surrounding Fallujah?
John
Like the Union soldier said to his comrade while entering Fredericksburg in 1862, "Getting in was easy. Getting out won't be so smart." Come to think of it, that pretty much sums up our whole Iraqi adventure.

That city has a quarter of a million very angry Iraqis who had done nothing to us when we invaded them.

We attacked a sovereign country, and we have killed over 100,000 of them, probably more.

I hate to tell you but we are killing civilians. They are people with faces and names.

is a mystery to me. And likely will remain so.

Wrong way Bush and the gang that couldn't shoot straight fucked this war up from the beginning. What gives you confidence in this operation?

I have confidence in the operation? Because I think this is disinformation?

If Bush and his gang were actually doing the fighting in Fallujah, sure there would be a hell of a lot of casualties. But they aren't. The people who are doing the fighting are members of the best military the world has ever seen, with weeks of preparation and huge advantages in material and information. No matter what one thinks of the wisdom of this operation, or the entire invasion for that matter, that this upcoming battle is going to be lopsided is all but a foregone conclusion.

People should just listen to you and accept your wisdom. Especially about running Dean again.

But we can agree on Dean.


Start counting those casualties, now.

That is really sad. It is pathetic.

and I have no problem highlighting points and posters I agree with.
Sorry, no hijacking intended.

You should have started a new thread to bash Dean. Not in the thread about our soldiers dying.

Who will willingly and readily engage in this battle.
This is what they do and I guarantee you not one of them has a moment's hesitation in doing it. And part of their job is to not get killed.
And again, I was just pointing out some good thoughts by a poster.
Sorry for the distraction.

They are going in with revenge in mind. I have no objection to fighting to win...but I detest the glory thing, the power attitude. Apparently they plan to kill them all.

in defiance of the lessons we learned in Viet Nam? What happened to the Powell doctrine?

We do have the best military in the world. Unfortunately our kids were sent there under equipped and undermanned. Sure they can win a battle but at what price in lives? In the long run, they can't win a war of insurgency.

<There will certainly be casualties, but my guess is it will be in the dozens, not the hundreds.>

We'll see. I hope you are right.

That's being done by competent people on the ground. They've been prepping for several weeks now. When the U.S. goes into a battle well prepped, it wins. That's different than the bigger Iraq situation, and winning this battle isn't going to end the insurgency by a long shot -- if history is any guide, it will only make it worse in the long run.

I though the Marines were ready willing and able a few months ago to take Falluja and got called off for political reasons? It sinks of Viet Nam.

It makes me sick that we have a trillion? dollar defense budget and I am kicking in money for one of my co-worker's husband's body armor and "care" packages.

For my money, I'd rather bring a gun to a knife fight.

The point being that the operation will prove to be strategically meaningless, even if it is a tactical success. The latter remains to be seen, of course.

Whether it's 12 or 100 Marines that die in Fallujah in the coming weeks, they'll still die for absolutely nothing, fighting a guerilla war against a local population unprepared to accept American oocupation. And that's where the real Vietnam analogy kicks in.

and I will be laughing all the way to the bank

US troops are being put into the ground. I despise Bush and all that he stands for. But as I was forced to endure, from 1970-71, snuffies don't get to pick their fucking wars!! If you have the first clue about what Dien Bien Phu entailed for the French, and you actually wish that same Hell upon our soldiers, then FUCK YOU and everyone you know.

I opposed the war at every turn and voted for the only true peace candidate during the primaries.

Why should I root for American forces over Iraqi lives? The problem is the American presence in Iraq. The high causualty rate in Vietnam is why we pulled out. In any case wishing for one thing or another accomplishes nothing so I fail to see what you are getting bent out of shape about.

But these troops didn't ask to be sent to this particular theater. It just happened. Been there, done that. So please, when you join me if condemning this administration, please lay off the 19-20 year olds who are dying for nothing.

Seems like there is plenty of condemnation to go around. And those kids that are dying for nothing are killing for even less.

Right, freepers?

Death and Casualties on the order of Vietnam Oh My God. I mean presumably in Vietnam we were supposed to be stopping the spread of communism (part of the cold war)but Iraq going the way of Vietnam when there was nothing necessary about this war other than Bush is up to his neck in the very mess he has made and he frankly just does not have the mechanism to figure out what to do. It would appear he would just assume let untold hundreds to thousands of young Americans go to their deaths or suffer a life time disability just because he wanted to invade a country simply because he had the power to do so.
Good luck America.

As I remember it the number was more like 1,500,000. Oh, I forgot, we only count Americans.

But it's simply not my problem.

over there. Their families fucking hate bush which is more than I can say for some regular military families I have come across.

GO USA!

/sarcasm

use so Bush and Cheney and the gang can watch their slaughter live with refreshments and all?

'beautiful minds' over this?

It's the Bush problem now and I am sure he will do a FINE job.

(I could barely type thet last line w/o shuddering)