How important is the veteran vote and the military vote?

How important is the veteran vote and the military vote?
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That's the bigger question.

And how important is the veteran/military vote in they critical states of:
Florida, West Virginia, Arizona, Nevada, Missouri, Ohio?
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I know that's one reason why General Clark is campaigning
so hard in Arizona; it has a huge veteran population.


BushCo seems to be targeting veterans. Using Arizona as an example:

"MESA - Vice President Dick Cheney's visit with Arizona veterans Thursday could help Republicans stay in the spotlight just weeks before the state's Democratic primary, a political observer said.
By focusing on veterans during his official visit, Cheney could aid President Bush's re-election bid, said Fred Solop, a political science professor at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff.

"Generally, the Republicans clearly see Arizona in play in the presidential election," Solop said. "Arizona is taking a lead role and Republicans want to keep a foothold in the state."
...
Arizona's appeal to retirees and its many military installations have made the state home to a large number of veterans. More than 536,000 veterans live in Arizona, according to the 2000 census.
"They're involved politically and they vote," he said. "It's a very important constituency in Arizona."
...
Although polls have shown that Bush could beat any of the Democratic presidential hopefuls in Arizona, retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark has been gaining on former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, and Clark appeals to veterans, Solop said."

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/vote/6086.php
Jan 16, 2004


Which candidates are reaching out to veterans?
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Going strictly from their websites' issues sections:

http://clark04.com/issues/veteranssecurity/

Lists a detailed "Veterans' Security Plan."

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/veterans/

Has a section "Fighting for America's Veterans" which has very detailed veteran's policies.

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/issues.asp

Don’t see a veteran’s link.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/#

Don’t see a veteran’s link.

http://www.dickgephardt2004.com/plugin/template/gephardt/13/*

Has a veteran’s “past record” link. Is also from Missouri, a critical state.

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/veterans.php

Gives details on his veteran's policies. Is also from Ohio, a critical state.

http://www.joe2004.com

Has Veteran's Bill of Rights on agenda, and detailed veteran's policies listed.

(Please let me know if I missed an existing link.)


I think veterans and military folks could represent a significant demographic.
Anyone else think so?
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On edit: Just fixed a typo.

And it's not just the people in uniform, but their families too.

I think it is a critical key to winning in '04. Clark and Kerry have the best chance to win these voters over.

Even though many overseas military ballots did not meet legal muster, when the Republicans asserted that the Dems were taking the military vote away, the Dems rolled over.

not so sure its big for us which in no way diminishes my respect for those who have served or continue to serve our country.

to peel away votes from military, military families, and veterans -- votes that normally would go Republican.

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What are those 'obvious reasons'? Please elaborate.

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Clark is a GENERAL fer chrissakes. The war was based on lies and if you don't think some of the troops know this you are insulting our military.

You CAN support the troops and not the reasons we went to war. You are falling for the typical Repuke reasoning here.

What are you doing to help our troops?

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I'll be gracefully exiting this conversation too!

http://www.bringthemhomenow.org

It's not a personal referendum. Don't flatter yourself. Like I mentioned, you're new to the board and if you come here posting opinions without anything to substantiate them, you have to expect people to question you. Please!

There are a lot of Vets who are seriously ticked off at this administration and they will not be voting for him.

I'm not a Veteran, but my dad and many of his friends are. These are life-long conservatives, and here is what they are ticked off about--

1. The decrease in benefits to Veterans.
2. The decrease in combat and hazard pay to active military.
3. The out-right lies of this administration in order to wage a war "and put our boys and girls in harms way to prove that Dubya, Dick, et. al. have big d--" (a quote courtesy of my dad).
4. The escalating body count in Iraq.
5. Where is Bin Laden? Has al-quadia (you know, the ones that are responsible for 9-11 truly been rendered harmless? (The general answer to both these questions: NO!)

However, the one thing that Dubya did, and that has got my dad and his friends not to vote for him, was the "Bring it on!" comment. He literally turned bright red and the only thing that I can repeat here as to what he said about it was: "Sure is easy to talk tough when you don't have bullets flying past your head, you (all sorts of dirty words deleted).

Note the associated political cartoon on this veteran's page:

http://www.votebushout.biz/link.asp#VETERANS%20GROUPS

I wonder how many died as a result of that taunt.


"Only someone who hasn't seen war firsthand would ever say anything as fatuous as 'bring 'em on." - Wesley Clark

I think it has been around 200 dead soldiers since that "bring it on" comment (possibly higher).

*Shakes head*

Thanks for the link. I'm sending it to all the veterans in my email address book. :-)

It's important to remember that taunt.
It revealed a lot.

1. Some who could not bring themselves to lift a finger for him - subtract votes for aWol.

2. Some who would vote dem, after veteran program cuts and unnecessary, bungled war - subtract votes for aWol, add same to dem: double jeopardy.


That's a formula for a higher turnout favoring the dem. Test out those military voting machines.

CONUS Active Duty/Reserve/ND: From what I've seen, they tend GOP anyways. Because they have the notion that the military benefits are better by GOP leadership than Dems. This isn't true, but the sheer notion of this stereotype has them voting likewise.

Overseas AD: Now, this is different because lot of single guys stationed overseas(E-1 through E-4) generally don't vote. Too busy chasing girls or going to pubs I guess(from my experience at least).
The married NCOs, COs and their spouses vote by absentee but, their numbers areb't that significant.

From my experience, the military vote goes to GOP(sad...but, true). And the amount of votes really wouldn't matter too much unless you got the same situation in FL, where couple hundred votes are contested.

:hi:

Unit affiliation?

Me:"Bugger Reg." Bliss!

According to the 2000 census, there are 26,549,704 veterans in the U.S. Add their families, etc and it's huge. The vets have been treated disgracefully by Bush & Co. Therefore it'ripe for a huge pickup.

I believe this group will identify with Wes Clark & John Kerry. Obviously, this is not a monolithic group, but security issues will be important to most. Also, veterans benefits & the war in Iraq will be large issues.

We have some vets in our kucinich 4prez volunteer group.i am part of military famlies speak out most members i know like kucinich because he will bring their loved ones home (i dont want my father redeployed as would happen under dean or bush) or they like clark because they feel that he knows about war.The members in veterans for peace that i know like kucinich as i said before because he is for peace and would bring them home.I met one vet who is going to vote for clark just because he would like a real general to stand up to bush for offending him by playing dressup in his flight suit

This time may be different. The military folks I know are not all that impressed by GW Bush*. (Some are quite angry) Most I have talked to like Dean and Clark.

I expect that many will vote anti-Bush* this time regardless of the Dem. nominee.

and military dependents...There are more votes than just the GI himself/herself. There are usually families involved that support the military member. That is where Clark holds an advantage over most all other candidates except possibly Kerry.

Military Families to Hold Candle Light Vigil During SOTU

Current active mil and their families have told me that Shrub has lost much cred with his previous boosters in the service. Mostly quiet now, sometimes derisive. Not good for the R's if its like this in November.

I think that the Democrats will benefit in terms of depressed turn out by veterans, military families, and service members.

However, I think it's highly unlikely.

All the other vets and military dependents that I know are still firmly in Bush camp(I just don't know why!!!). They're all saying that this war was good for the liberation of the Iraqi......etc.

So, is the military point of view(at least from my perspective).

I tell ya, When I voted for Clinton, I told all my colleagues that I voted for Dole.

Wouldn't wanna "blanket party" pulled on me, now, would I?

eom

As a veteran I am very aware of veteran's issues and belong to several veterans organizations. I can tell you that the veterans and the leadership of the organizations are aware of the lip service the Bush administration pays to veterans and they are getting the word out. It is traditionally seen that veterans support republicans but my sense is the Democrats will benefit from the veteran vote this time. I really don't have a feel for active duty military, only veterans.