Dem Lifer Grandmother went to CONFESSION b/c she didn't vote for BUSH

My grandma has never voted for a Republican in her life. For the longest time, I've heard her talk about how the Republicans are evil and it's our job to help out the poor. I've seen her get into HEATED discussions with my uncle who is an moderate Democrat about how he is not left enough (He thinks the minority rules in America these days because you can't have crosses/Nativity scenes on city property as an example. During Seabiscuit, in the part when David McCullough is talking about the Great Depression, McCullough said "It was a dark time for America, but people came out to help one another. There was a champion for the little people." My grandma leans over to me, shakes her finger and says with great pride and a smile, "Democrats". She lived during the Great Depression, she was 4 years old in 1929.

My grandma has never missed a Catholic mass in her life except for serious illness. She goes every week just as I do. I go to mass in Chicago. She goes in mass in suburban St. Louis. Here in Chicago, we don't hear about abortion. In St. Louis, it's all they hear about. I went to visit my grandma three weeks before the election and I went to mass with her. The homily was all about abortion despite the fact the Gospel had NOTHING to do with it. I was fuming the whole time. It was three weeks before the election. I had heard from my grandma via my mother that the priests had talked about abortion at the church, but listening to the homily, I had never been so outraged at a priest in my life. He basically said vote for Bush or you are sinning. He also said that it was Pro-Life Sunday and I guess that was suppose to justify him speaking on the topic. He doesn't know what the hell he is talking about.

October is called Respect Life month, Pro-Life Sunday is actually the third week in January. Cute and disgusting move by the priest to twist Respect Life Month. I didn't appreciate the Priest speaking on such a hot button issue three weeks before the election and I let him have a piece of my mind. "So because you touched on this hot topic, I'm guessing next Sunday will be 'Anti-war Sunday', the Sunday after that will be 'Helping the Sick (Stem Life Research)' and the Sunday after that will be 'Help the Poor Sunday" He said in a smug, yes I'm lying to you tone, "Oh yes maybe it will be, but this week was Pro-life Sunday." I responded, "Actually it's 'Respect Life Month', I suggest you respect your position of authority and stick to the Gospel." and walked away. It was clear he wasn't about to get into an argument with me.

Well I talked with my grandma and she said she was proud of me for speaking my mind, but she thought they had a point about abortion. I said that the Catholic values side with the Democrats when it comes to social justice, helping the poor, being anti-war, and sticking up for those with the smallest voice and power. All of that takes precedent over abortion because we can control the Democratic values, we can't control if someone is going to have an abortion or not. It is our job to help those who are seeking abortion and suggest they have the child, but it is not our place to dictate whether or not they can. We didn't talk about politics again on that trip and I thought she was going to vote for Kerry. I left for Chicago and worked to help Kerry and voted at my parents house in Wisconsin.

Three weeks later, my grandma didn't vote for Bush. She didn't vote for Kerry either. The priest won. He gets to speak to her week after week after week. He pounds his words into her mind and everyone else's mind. After Tuesday, my grandma went to confession. She felt she had to and that she had sinned. Her sin? NOT VOTING FOR BUSH! She has never voted for a Republican before and now she feels that she committed sin by not doing so. A man who has PERSONALLY caused more death than abortions in his four years in office.

52% of Catholic felt the same way. The Democrats use to get a majority of the Catholic vote. A great deal of this has to do with some bishops and priests in the Catholic Church. They want to stress abortion as a major issue when Jesus never directly addressed it. Those that are in the Catholic Church with me, please help make sure this doesn't happen. The Catholic Church delivered the election to Bush more than the evangelical voters. We knew evangelicals were going to vote for Bush, we didn't expect Catholics to vote against Catholic candidate. They certainly shouldn't have either considering the fact that Democratic values tend to be Catholic values. If we emphasize the Catholic values of social justice, helping the poor and being anti-war, we can get them back on our side.

If you are Catholic, I suggest looking into www.cta-usa.org. It's Call to Action which has members that generally lean more liberal. Non-Catholics with Catholic friends, remind them that Catholics believe that the more good deeds you do in life, the more likely you are go to go heaven. That is a HUGE difference between Protestants and Catholics. Protestants believe that your fate is pre-determined and either you are going to heaven or you aren't. Catholics feel they need to earn their way into heaven and Republicans have tried to convince Catholics that voting for abortion will get you damned. We can't lost this battle. The fact that my grandma felt that she was sinning by not voting for Bush, a man who has done so much physical AND emotional harm to people around the world is DISTURBING. We must return Catholics back to the party and return an emphasize on our Democratic values that are so Catholic.

too many who believed they could do anything and still go to Heaven because they had accepted Jesus. They believe it not in the sense that God can forgive them any sin, which Catholics also believe. They don't believe that they must work hard to avoid sin, despite God's mercy, but, in many cases, they have the attitude that they can do whatever the fuck they want because Jesus is their Get-out-of-Hell-free card.

but if he starts talking sh*t, I'm leaving the church.
Great site, by the way.

in and said her religion and that she had two daughters in catholic school and that she was so upset about the gay referendums and she felt it was so wrong for them to try to tell people they could not get married. At that point she got upset, and one of the talking heads came on and said that it would never pass anyway without a 2/3 majority. I was so touched by this, it was practically the only high point in my day that such a religious person would call in in support of gay marriage.

Yes, the effect religious leaders have had on this election is so great we could be living in muslim nation.

Jesus said "Love thy neighbor" not "Hate thy gay". God created some people to be gay and to love other people of the same gender. Why would God want us to deny them the right to love?

candidates made sense. You've got the priests and bishops all of a sudden in league with the Repukes, swaying their sheeple to vote puke. The political devotion of the Catholic clergy is pretty impressive, really, when you consider that this is time taken in which they could be buggering little boys. Just too much to fight.

We should select mainline Protestant candidates till this country has more of a clue of what morality and, yes, Christianity are really about.

If we just give up on Catholics, than that's another 27% of the population gone. Right now we have 48% voting for us, leaving 13% of the population behind is not wise. Plus, priests don't have as much control over the congregation as Protestant ministers. Priests get moved around on a scheduled basis to avoid Catholics having a single priest's view on things.

Many protestant congregations can hire and realease clergy as they see fit. In my experience I have seen Catholics tolerate much more domineering behavior from clergy than protestants. For the last several months I've been attending services at a church that belongs to a traditionally strict denomination, yet I have never heard a word about how I should vote. Meanwhile while flipping channels EWTN has priests constantly beating the pro-life drum and talking about voting pro-life.

Sure, Protestant churches hire and fire their ministers and that generally keeps the ministers from being very progressive. The Protestant congregation tends to think it owns the minister -- and his wife as an extra, unpaid worker. I was raised Protestant, am now Catholic, so I've seen the good and the bad in both.

I don't remember Gore or Clinton getting so much crap from priests, but they weren't Catholic. Is there some kind of grudge born against members who diverge from the church's positions?

Their relative silence when the candidate isn't Catholic suggests so.

I imagine that the Vatican must view any American Catholic president as a potential competitor unless, of course, he/she was explicitly on board. And I can't imagine that the attacks on Kerry weren't orchestrated directly by the Vatican (Ratzinger).

was not a sin for Catholics to vote for a pro-choice candidate unless they were voting for that person only because he was pro-choice. A few American bishops -- notably the one in St. Louis -- went against that. Remember that the pope has personally opposed the war on Iraq.

I doubt that the Vatican thought of Kerry as competition. I'm sure they wish he would stay in line with Church policies but they understand politics even if they dislike it.

Some American bishops wanted to jerk Kerry and other Catholic politicians back in line. I don't object to them reminding Catholics what the Church teaches -- that's their job. I do object to them trying to get us not to vote for Kerry. Voting is always about making a choice as to which candidate is better, not about finding the perfect candidate.

And I'm not sure the Catholic Church will be so strong about abortion as they were last time. I think the post above has some good points too. They don't want John Kerry to be a Catholic leader opposed to abortion. If John Kerry is a Catholic President and is against abortion, then they think that Catholics can get confused as to what to follow or what the official Church has to say about abortion.

realize that the Dem policies were more in line with their religious values than the repubs. The group is planning to continue its work as "Catholic Democrats."

Please give your grandma a hug from her fellow Democrats. How outrageous that they'd browbeat an elderly person about voting.

You'd think that Catholics would have learned well how destructive the GOP has been since 1980 as they divided Protestant congregations with their politics. Sad that Catholics are now being subjected to the politicization of their parishes, especially given that this was all orchestrated initially by non-Catholics against a Catholic candidate. Sad that the Church bought it hook, line and sinker.

I cant imagine how hard it must be for her.

Dead soldiers and civilians from a greedy bungled war trumped everything else for me.

Politicking from the pulpit is verboten.

That's how ALL the churches work regardless of religion. The leader be it a minister, priest or whatever gets up there and says everything but vote for Bush. Churches can only lose tax-exempt status when they say "VOTE FOR CANDIDATE A"

http://www.VotingCatholic.org

she'd learn how her beliefs correspond to those expressed by the US bishops in the 2004 "Faithful Citizenship: A Catholic Call to Political Reponsibility", to George Bush*'s views and actions, and to John Kerry's views and actions. The bishops, for example, spoke out against land mines, an issue Kerry has done something about. Bush* refuses to do anything about eliminating land mines.

There's a voters' guide you can print out and send her if you like. It might help her feel better. For example, I scored 100% agreement with the bishops (I am pro-life, though in a far more nuanced way than the bishop of St. Louis) and 0% agreement with Bush*! I agreed with Kerry 70% so clearly he was the candidate whose views were closer to the bishops'.

Seeing that she was born in 1925, though, I'm not surprised that your grandma felt she had to go to confession when she didn't vote for Bush*, even though she didn't vote for Kerry. She comes from a very different world, one in which doing what the priest said was a much bigger thing than it is for Catholics of later generations.

I know..I know..they sinned but have found their way and are back in God's graces..:puke: