6-Second Poll: Iraqi Insurgents

Iraqi insurgents are:

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is not a freedom fighter. He is a terrorist and a murderer. The man does not give a shit about making Iraqis free.

It is a very decentralized insurgency--Baathists and nationalists and Shiite extremists and bin Ladenists. No one term besides "insurgents" really describes the entire group.

But you sounded firm about it.

nt

like it.

blow them up...

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Not according to the Iraqi people who wrote the following letter to the UN:

-snip-
We know that we are living in world of double standards. In Falluja, they have created a new vague target: AL ZARQAWI. This is a new pretext to justify their crimes, killing and daily bombardment of civilians.
Almost a year has elapsed since they created this new pretext, and whenever they destroy houses, mosques, restaurants, and kill children and women they said, "We have launched a successful operation against Al-Zarqawi." They will never say that they have killed him, because there is no such a person. And that means the killing of civilians and the daily genocide will continue.

The people of Falluja assure you that this person, if he exists, is not in Falluja and is probably not anywhere in Iraq. The people of Falluja have announced many times that any person who sees Al-Zarqawi should kill him.

Now everybody realizes that this man is just a hypothetical hero created by the Americans.


http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_13236.shtml

the insurgency that plainly does not give one ounce of crap about Iraqis.

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Hating terrorists like those who blow up schoolchildren does not make someone a Bushbot.

We're talking about the Iraqi resistance, not Chechan terrorists.

Typical Bushbot bullshit.

"All muslims are terrorists and if you disagree you're a traitor."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/30/iraq.main/

"Earlier Thursday, nearly three dozen children died and many more were wounded when car bombs exploded at a community celebration in Baghdad where U.S. soldiers were handing out candy.

The attacks at the festive opening of a sewage plant in Baghdad killed at least 41 people. Another car bomb had already killed a U.S. soldier and two Iraqi police officers."

Nice heroes you have.

They should have been American troops, that way those kids would have just been baby terrorists and "collateral damage" and therefore OK to kill.

or freedom fighters?

Terrorists hand out candy to kids in a middle of a warzone.

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We've killed over 40,000 kids in Iraq. But to you it's only terrorism when the muslims do it. No that's what sounds Orwellian to me.

You think that people that kill Iraqi schoolchildren are freedom fighters, and that American troops that give them candy are the real terrorists.

You actually said that.

You admire child murderers. You cheer them on.

And that's what the insurgents are doing. As opposed to the US troops, which aren't doing shit but killing civilians for GWB. And that, in a nutshell, is terrorism.

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"In any event, your moral idiocy, as evidenced by your "giving candy to children is the only real terrorism" post, makes you unworthy to acknowledge."

You're completely misinterpreting my argument in order to save grace in an argument you already know you've lost.

"How do you know what they are trying to do? Have you sat in on their strategy sessions?"

Well golly gee whiz. We invade their country. Murder and rape their children. And they attack us? Who the hell do they think they are?

:eyes:

You are truly scaring me....

The place was unsecured. Nobody with any kind of morals would go around handing candy to children in such a situation. Which means, more than likely, the whole story is propaganda bullshit.

You've come to the point where you're justifying them killing civilians, in order to kill Americans.

I'm sorry, but if you're going to condemn the use of the term "collateral damage" by Americans, then you're a fool and a hypocrite if you don't condemn their killing of civilians as well.

And they must be opposed - the only question is - what is the best tactic? Levelling fallujah is in my mind not the best tactic.

The #1 destabilizing force in Iraq is the presence of US forces, not the insurgency itself.

My cousin (a backdoor draft victim) has just been ordered to the frontlines of Fallujah. :scared:

...with a few Al-Qaida-style terra-ists who crossed over the unsecured borders after the US invasion.

Pray for Fallujah.

I'm curious about people's gut reactions to the question.

"freedom" fighters.

They may be nationalists, but they are really just other groups trying to establish their own base for totalitarian rule.

fighting, they are foreigners trying to stop the formation of a government that is not based on radical Islam. They are terrorists. The Iraqi people want these people out/dealt with so they can get on with building their lives and country.

a while back on the MSNBC site. I am going to try now to go and get some information on this. I am curious about the number of Iraqi casualties and the make up of the insurgency.

This was just posted on another thread

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0928-21.htm

And yes, it has been exaggerated that the insurgents are foreign and not Iraqis.

And INAVDED PEOPLE have the LEGAL RIGHT to fight their invaders.

from your other thread.

I hate how bush's bullshit gets spread far & wide and buries the FACTS.

Hopefully soon, the FACTS will bury bush. ;)

situation was reversed.

which he said that only 2% of the Iraqi's wanted the Americans there. Again, that's 2%!

that shows you that 95% of those either being captured or killed are foriegn fighters. The are not there to protect the Iraqis from the Americans they are trying to keep them from forming a free government - a non-radical Islamic government. When I find it I will post.

I hate what is going on in Iraq just as much as everybody, but I will not glorify these killers but giving them a 'justified' name like "freedom" fighters. They are killers and terrorists and they must be dealt with.

schoolchildren.

Well, Dr.Weird would. But he's an exceptional kind of fellow.

Somewhere around 40,000.

Fucking savages.

for these numbers?

It was widely reported several days ago. I believe it was from a study published in American Scientist, although I'm not sure if that was the journal.

I don't understand the efficacy of blowing up your fellow citizens...

So why are we doing it in Iraq?

it's not so unbelievable. Hell, we have murders here every minute.

The goal of the insurgent is to enlist the masses in your cause.....


How can you enlist the masses in your cause if you are blowing them up.....

The insurgents are blowing up Iraqi civilians in the hope they will believe the American's cant protect them and turn on them....

That's immoral and doomed to failure...

the Iraqi police? I say they are Iraqi's fighting Iraqi's. Undeclared civil war.

The minority Sunnis have been ruling the roost since Saddam came to power...

They will note happily cede their power to the Shia....


As for the police they are poor average Joes or Hamids if you will trying to earn a buck and create some kind of stability in the hope the Americans will leave if things are stable...

It's a mess....

a minority. Makes them sound much more like "dead-enders".

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=2784

the CIA website says one thing....

your source says another thing...


a third independent source would be the tie-breaker...



on edit- i think i found it...


At least 95% percent of population adheres to some form of Islam. Government gives number of Shias as 55% but probably 60% to 65% is reasonable figure. Most Iraqi Shias are Arabs. Almost all Kurds, approximately 19% of population, are Sunnis, together with about 13% Sunni Arabs. Total Arab population in 1987 given by government as 76%. Remainder of population small numbers of Turkomans, mostly Sunni Muslims; Assyrians and Armenians, predominantly Christians; Yazidis, of Kurdish stock with a syncretistic faith; and a few Jews.

from 14,232 up to 16,371 - total (including children). Found this interesting site:

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

I thought your 40,000 children killed sounded very high. And these numbers include those killed in bombings done by insurgents. It's sad none the less.

Scientists Estimate 100,000 Iraqi Deaths

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=205657

100,000 Iraqis killed by coalition troops

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/news.php?p=9187&c=1

they are the exact same article (AP) with different titles - one of them using 'killed by coalition.' Makes me suspicious. Did you read beyond the title? From the ABC News (AP article):

There is no official figure for the number of Iraqis killed since the conflict began, but some non-governmental estimates range from 10,000 to 30,000. As of Wednesday, 1,081 U.S. servicemen had been killed, according to the U.S. Defense Department.

The researchers of The Lancet report concede that the data they based their projections on were of "limited precision," because the quality of the information depends on the accuracy of the household interviews used for the study. The interviewers were Iraqi, most of them doctors.

That there was a 95% chance that the number of dead was between 8,000 and 198,000. They chose the midpoint and called that a total.

To put it in terms roughly akin to polling, its margin of error was plus or minus 95,000.

n/t

call THEM terrorists?? SICK!

They're terrorists for murdering other Iraqis.

When the resistance fighters in Vietnam blew up officers' clubs to try to kill US soldiers in Saigon, they took a bunch of innocent civilians along with them. To them, it didn't matter. The fact that there were dead bodies that were American in the rubble was enough to justify indiscriminate bombings in their minds. They were monsters.

In Iraq, as it was in Vietnam, there are several different groups that oppose the US. There are Ba'athists, foreign fighters (mujahadeen), Al Qaeda terror agents, Shi'ite militias, Sunni militias, and general Iraqis seeking revenge for wrongs.

Some of these guys want to establish their own totalitarian rule, while others are simply fighting to be free from foreign occupation and to be free and independent. It's the latter that we should be most worried about. The ones who want power and control are few in number, but the ones who want revenge because they lost someone they knew--friends, family members, relatives--are perhaps many. Maybe even too many. Bullies are few in number, but angry victims of war can be legion.

If the war continues to go as badly as it has, the numbers of those who want revenge because someone they loved died will continue to grow. Killing these people, accidentally or intentionally, will only create more in their place. That's not the same with foreign fighters and terrorists. They have no one who will fight for them except themselves. They are hated even by many Iraqis.

I was going to say something about them being a coalition of necessity, but you've made the point brilliantly.

I would only add this. If some force were to invade this country, I believe EVERY ONE of us would stand right beside the Bush supporters and fight the invaders every step of the way. There would be time enough to fight our internal battles once the bigger battle was won.
I firmly believe this is what is going on in Iraq as we speak.

-chef-

There are some in Iraq that are fighting the US occupational forces, believing they are fighting for their country. Perhaps they can be considered freedom fighters.

However, there are also those that are there to cause as much chaos and destruction as possible. Those that have beheaded, those that bomb innocent civilians should be called for what they are - terrorists.