People - you are falling into their trap with this "MORALS" crap.

CNN said that according to exit polls, 29% of the folks who voted for Bush cited "strength and decisiveness" as their main deciding factor. Only 14% cited "religious reasons"

Also, please remember that Bill Clinton retained a 70% approval rating AFTER Monica and impeachment. The United States has NOT morphed into a puritan nation overnight. The gays and abortion were a factor in this election, but the degree to which they were has been blown WAY out of proportion by tthe mainstream media - AND by this board.

I don't know why they are trying to make evangelicals out to be tthe big factor, but there must be something in the works.

Too few of us are worrying about the strength and consistency factor and too many about the religion thing.

I know, I know - Kerry WAS strong and consistent, but we knew from the get-go that his anti-war past could easily be exploited for the simplistic "my country, right or wrong" folks - and we all saw how easily a 20-year record in the senate could be distorted.

Just a thought, but maybe we shouldn't be looking for southern foot-washer, but an approachable governor with a reputation for dogged stubbornness

because it isn't really true, but we may be able to split the republican party by pretending it is.

Interesting thought.

And when the totally insane rabid religious zealots, whom BUSH has PUBLICLY credited for his being elected, start DEMANDING bush do the insane things they want done coz bush OWES them...THAT is when the fun begins & we sit back & laugh as the rethug party blows up. :)

Most of the Republicans I know are not "moral" at all. They're tax dodgers and racists. The percentage of people who voted for Bush for his so-called values is so low I find it outrageous that they would even suggest he has some sort of "moral mandate."

from a snake-oil president.

Hoist them by their own petard. Got it?

Forget the "strong leader" and "terrorism" issues that are the real reason they voted for him; the next attack on US soil will take care of their blindness on that.

If they wanna LIE and yes we KNOW they're LYING about it having been on MORALS that's a GIFT for us.

BIG GIFT.

1. How about all them oh-so-moral QUOTES from rethugs that we can splash all over the country?

2. How about all them oh-so-moral sex scandals, rapes, paedophilia that so many rethugs (senators, governors, reps, pundits) have been involved in/charged with? Lots of great news articles to splash around the country about "republican morals".

If they want to run on their MORALS, we can HAMMER them.

3. As I said in my previous post, the rabid zealots will divide the rethug party all on their own when they scream at bush that he OWES THEM to implement their insane plans, coz bush has already PUBLICLY said it was THEM and their MORALS that got him elected.

And the conservatives are not going to allow bush to implement the crazy shit the loonies want. So we will have neocons versus the rethugs...the religious zealots against the rest of the rethugs...and the conservatives against both.

A 3-way huge kick-ass fight all in the rethug party. And we can sit & egg em on. :D

But I don't think many of them are us.;)

Just watch Sully on Bill Maher's show. He was spouting the talking points as if "moral values" is a foregone conclusion. It never once occured to him that his party "won" ONLY with the help of whack-job religious zealots.

And no, id anybody wants to lecture me on that, I won't stop saying what I feel, or think! I don't take orders from the RNC. I would rather lose elections the rest of my life than to capitulate to frenzied cult ideology. Eat SHIT!

think about all this VALUES crap-- after all, his "values" of having sex with other men are, shall we say, severely frowned upon by this so-called "values" crowd...

He offends my morality, as a gay man, because he knowingly has unprotected sex while being HIV+. He also offends my morals because he stood up to be counted with the party that said AIDS was God's retribution for being who we are, and idolizes a 2nd rate actor, that did nothing while the epidemic took the world hostage in the 80s.

What galls me, is that him, Camile Paglia, and a couple of other right wing assimilationist gays are the ONLY ones invited on the talk show circuit. Never a liberal one, and there are many.

any differently about her.

issue. Simpson said it right after saying he was pro-choice and pro gay rights.

It was the oddest disconnect I've ever seen. both of these men disagree with their party on the social (moral) issues and lecture the Dems for losing because we are out of touch on the same moral issues.

Either they were both freaked out themselves about what the voters did re: the social issues. Or, they took their marching orders from Rove who said: "tell them it was about values."

Sully said he voted for kerry because of the way Bush ran the war but he still wanted to hammer us (through Bill) about our values.

I think they wanted to tell Bill we hate that you are an atheist. As an atheist I can tell you my very existence bugs some religious people. some people who believe in god are very threatened by people who don't. Maybe someone here could explain to me why.

we are supposed to believe this garbage about "values" from those same exit polls?

I'm confused!:crazy:

I have been wanting to show the heart and should of the Democratic Party for a long time. The ideals of Jefferson and Madison and the liberal teachings of Jesus. We are very broad and have a lot to be proud of and yes, we are spiritual people even if that spirituality does not include a belief in God for some.