Want To Abandon The Marijuana Issue So We Can "Win"?

get the F*CK outta my party!

disgusting how many here want to "win" by curtailing Personal Freedom. real nice.

YEAH! I Want A "Conservative" in the WH who happens to wear the "DEM" label! YEAH!!!! THAT will be GREAT for 'Murica!! YEAH!!! We can say we WON!! YEAH!!

go f*cking recruit Zell Miller if you want but NOT ON MY WATCH!

i'll take 36 more years of George W Bush before I will stop fighting for the right to smoke a bowl.

so.......

KISS OFF!

no retreat, no surrender. if you think otherwise, put me on ignore cause i am gonna haunt you forever.

your funny but Mrs Matcom has BEEN through Cancer! i know what medical pot can do to help the side effects

you go through Chemo and get back to me k?

I would actually make medicinal use of it too, as a natural hypnotic for my frequent insomnia.

We should have made it legal here in Mass before the election therefore throwing it in the face of the "Christan" voters of the south and mid west. We should have said come to Mass and smoke all you want. We need to take our collective heads out of the sand on this issue. It cost us voters whether you like it or not. It should have been put off until after the election.

Dopers are smart...they don't need to have the presidency to make strides on this issue...

It just doesnt seem like an issue associated with Presidential Politics...

Let's embrace western citizen's normal libertarian nature to win. More personal freedoms, not less. It's easy, so easy, to attack the neocon's assaults on personal liberties: we just have to do it in the right way.

At least not in the libertarian-conservative (as opposed to fundamentalist christian-conservative) West. Montana passed medical marijuana by a large margin.

1. It would save billions of dollars for law enforcement, who could then try stopping real crimes
2. A hefty sin tax on it would bring in BILLIONS of dollars and provide enough money for universal childrens healthcare, easily
3. It would create millions of new jobs and boost life into our agriculture industry
4. Violent crime would go down because instead of a dealer beating up or killing someone who stole their product, they could have it insured and call the cops to find the theif.

Counter argument: But it get's high! It's a sinful weed from satan! Definately an issue America needs to grow up on.

I posted earlier about wanting to open a jukejoint. Maybe I'll replace my dream with a world renown ganja cafe!

...ironically refering to.

The pot issue is not an issue of discrimination. There isn't a segment of the population whose rights are inferior to others in this case.

If that isn't discrimination, I don't know what is. When has the government openly declared war on gays and had the entire nation rally around the cause?

as I understand it, is taking away certain rights from a group that are available to other groups.

Which isn't to say that legalization of pot isn't a worthy cause.

but I forgot what I was going to say :smoke:

Don't be hoggin' the pipe beeyotch.

e.g., life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.

And I'm not saying that the only causes worth fighting are anti-discriminatory causes. In addition, not being able to legally smoke pot can in itself be considered a withdrawal of rights, federal imprisonment or not.

My only point was that there is a fundamental difference between teh gay-marriage issue and the pot issue, in that one is a non-discriminatory withdrawal of rights, and the other is discriminatory.

and the problem here is racial profiling in enforcement of the law, not the law itself.

"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."

I dig it -- I'll use it in the future. I also think that it applies much better to the issue of gay marriage than it does to legalization of marijuana (rephrased: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the straight as well as the gay to marry a person of the same sex.")

The thing is, that this is a social and systemic problem, not a problem of the issue itself. Anatole France surely wasn't arguing that stealing bread should be legalized... Also, a similar racial disproportion that you cite for the example of pot legalization is evident for other crimes, such as, for example, murder. Does that make you believe murder should be legalized, or that there are deeper problems within the societal and legal structures that need to be addressed?

I absolutely support the legalization of marijuana. But it isn't the law itself that is discriminatory -- unlike is the case with the gay marriage ban, which is unabashedly and tangibly discriminatory.

:shrug:

they are for the most part just like the Republicans on this issue, which is sad.

Having a position on a subjective, social issue like that is going to alienate everyone who disagrees with it.

I'll tell you this too, Marijuana will be legalized way before you would see gay marrage legalized nationwide.

Hell it almost won in Republican Alaska.

Other more controversial issues cost us more votes than Marijuana ever could.

This is an issue that can cross party "boundaries", just like gay marriages.

If the DNC came out firmly in favor of Medical Marijuana, they might be surprised at how many voters they pick up.

heck, it made me laugh. I needed that!

The Dems have NO unified position on Marijuana. This summer, when Congress had a chance to cut funding to the DEA for medicinal marijuana raids, the Democrats split their vote. Had the Democrats stuck to a party line, the DEA wouldn't be able to raid patients in California.

BTW: Joe Hoeffel was one of the Dem Congressmen who voted to sustain DEA raids in states that legalized medical marijuana ... and I voted for the Libertarian candidate in the PA Senate race as a result.

John Kerry didn't discuss the issue at all during his campaign. His 2003 Rolling Stone interview was promising, but then, Clinton looked OK on paper, too ... and Clinton arrested more marijuana smokers than any President before him. Bush has now beat Clinton's record.

Funny, though, because certain GOP voter registration groups so clearly recognized the power of the issue that they tricked students at three different PA colleges into registering republican by pretending to be petitioning for marijuana legalization.

OH, KY and TN combined produce as much as CA...there might be something to it?

all those pot farmers and smokers down there might jump the values ship to grow and smoke @ peace?

Two pronged. Like the two things the party needs, more than anything else- a PAIR OF BALLS. (Proverbially speaking, of course- not to be gonad-centric).. So as I don't type the same thing all over, here's an excerpt from my latest blog-rant (It's foul language-heavy. Don't let the kids read...I censored it somewhat, but if you're offended by the word "f*ck", stop now. Sorry, I swear like a sailor.), and I'm only being partially facetious:

So, I call "bullshit" on the talking heads who demand change from the Democratic Party. Should the Dems change? Hell, yes. But not in the sense of selling out commitments to core issues, like reproductive freedom. What we should do, and what John Edwards started to do, is reframe economics issues in values terms. I've said it before- 45 Million Americans with no Health Coverage is a Moral Travesty. We should keep at that, but we also should do a better job of clearly and vocally standing up for social libertarian values, so that we can catch the urban independent voters with a libertarian bend as they increasingly flee from the Theocratic Republican Party. There are millions of educated, secular voters in this country who hang on a thread between the GOP and the Democrats, because they can't figure out which party is LESS interested in interfering in their personal lives. I suspect that the GOP will soon prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is not them. Therefore, I would like my democratic party to be ready and open, when the time comes, to stand up clearly for principles like the right of consenting adults (note I have not said consenting corporations) to do what they damn well please, so long as it's in the privacy of their own homes, it doesn't keep the neighbors up, and it doesn't hurt anyone else. With this, I mean- among other things- ending the stupid, pointless drug war. We don't need to blow $400 Billion a year to make sure Tommy Chong isn't selling bongs over the internet. That's a f*cking waste of my tax dollars. I also mean that if some poor duffer with bone cancer, in crippling pain, wants physician assistance and a dignified, pain-free exit, the humane thing to do is allow it. A new Democratic party will stand up for these things, and pick up urban libertarians. Meanwhile, a new Democratic Party will also frame values issues to rural religious folk like Martin Luther King did. Social Justice. Fair Play. These are "family values".. not obsessing over what your neighbors are doing with their naughty bits. And, finally, what is the ONE thing I think the Democratic party needs, above all else?

...Waiter? A PAIR OF F*CKING BALLS, PLEASE.

You want to know why we lost, if indeed we did? It's because we've played the game too carefully, for too long. If careful mattered, George Bush would be working in a car wash. The guy f*cks up. He says stupid shit, he pisses people off, and he doesn't care. He laughs about the fact that there were no WMDs, for Christ's Sake! And then turns around and nails John Kerry for using a word like "nuance". Sure, the folks who weren't going to vote for him, like me, point to it, wave our arms, and go "Jesus- how can any sentient life form still support this chucklemonkey?!?" But guess what-- He still gets votes. People respect the dickhead, because he wanders through his f*ckups like Mr. God-Damn Magoo, and not only doesn't care, he can't even be bothered to acknowledge them. Say one thing for him, he's not afraid to do the wrong thing. He positively revels in it. So, we as a party need to stand up. Take unpopular positions. The WORST thing we could do right now would be to run away from every principled stand we've ever taken, whining "We have to change the message and appeal to the evangelicals! We have to stop being so pro-gay, pro-choice, pro-freedom!" Yeah, and the minute we did that, the evangelicals would laugh about how we "flip-flopped"... Screw that. We need to stand up for things that piss them off MORE, and this time not apologize for it. Legalized Prostitution. Porno movies at the drive-ins. More boobs flappin' around loose at the super bowl. Government subsidized medical marijuana from Canada. They want to teach creationism in Public Schools? F*ck that- we want to bust in on Sunday and teach evolution--- in their CHURCHES.

I mean, they already think we're degenerate heathens, but maybe if we stopped being such f*cking wusses about the whole thing, they might develop some long-overdue respect for us.

...I'm sort of kidding about some of that stuff, but I really do believe there is a whole segment of intelligent, non-aligned, socially libertarian voters who will be fleeing in droves from the GOP, if they hadn't already.. If we come out strongly for the freedom of consenting adults to be left the hell alone with their personal choices so long as they don't interfere with other people, we will be well placed to capture that demographic.

Absolutely, yes it is inexcusable that pot is still illegal, and even more so that we spend obscene amounts of money every year on the drug war.

Nobody in America voted on Marijuana. JK didn't even mention marijuana, except for to say once that he had used it in the past. There is no marijuana issue. No politician on either side brings it up. If you wanna fight for pot, don't expect a mainstream candidate to start a stir. Join a grassroots (no pun intended) movement to increase public acceptance of it.

But the DNC's problems run far, FAR deeper than "marijuana." Please stop acting victimized. You're only increasing party disunity. And that's doing the work of Rove.

Unless, of course, this is satire, in case it's so very well done you fooled me easily.

Come to think of it, there aren't many people who don't know that this is a non-issue. I've heard just as many republicans talk of legalizing it as Dems. This just isn't a popular issue right now - I do think it ought to be legalized for the betterment of the country as a whole, but it's not too big a deal. War on pot = war on sex - can't stop either as hard as you try. They don't call it "weed" for nothin!

"Nobody in America voted on Marijuana."

Bullcrap. I voted on Marijuana in respect to smaller races, and I know ten people who voted Libertarian because of Kerry's wishy-washy stance. The marijuana issue was the final nail in my "I'm not voting for Gore" coffin in 2000.

The main roadblock standing in the way of Marijuana legalization is a National roadblock ... not state and not local. The chief reason Alaska voted against legalization was because certain people insisted Alaska would lose Federal contracts and other perks as a result of legalization. They're probably right.

Every single American knows someone who was arrested for Marijuana ... that's how many people have been arrested for Marijuana possession in the past 28 years.

And not only is it an issue involving racial discrimination, but it's an issue rooted in age discrimination. The majority of people arrested on marijuana charges are under 25.

It's a HUGE issue. The GOP doesn't run away from things like gun ownership because it knows that it'll lock-in a certain number of voters purely on that one issue. The democrats do the opposite... they ignore interest groups and try to look like Republicans, which is already the party anti-marijuana people are committed to. I'd reckon that there are as many (if not more) people who have smoked and enjoyed marijuana as there are people who've fired a gun.

This is a thinly veiled attempt to equate the Marijuana legalization to the Gay marriage issues. Some people here, myself included, think that the Mass gay marriage law cost us voters in swing (southern & mid western) states. Some people here who happened to be gay or lesbian are upset with some Duers who have brought this up. I do not think it cost us the election but to to say it did not cost us votes is naive.

I personally believe that ANY two people should be able to marry, outside of a church, I am not for making laws telling churches who they have to marry, Justices of the Peace should have to perform marriage ceremonies for both straight and gay couples. I would have supported a national gay marriage act AFTER the election. I, as a pot smoker, would have had the same stance had a legalize pot initiative been thrust into the national political landscape. It to would have cost us voters.

I am not one willing to put what I believe in aside, but this election was way to important and I wantd to do everything possiable to win.

for the right of consenting adults to make their own damn decisions about their own bodies, lives, and choices. This means the drug war, this means euthanasia, this means censorship, this means reproductive freedom, this means gay marriage.. We need to stop straddling the fence. The GOP is rapidly becoming (if they weren't already) the party of puritan repression, therefore we need to delineate ourselves as the party of personal freedom.

From the Marijuana Policy Project:

Big Win for Medical Marijuana in Montana
Initiative Wins Easily in State That Overwhelmingly Backs Bush
http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr110204.html


More Wins for Medical Marijuana
Initiatives Passing in Ann Arbor & Columbia; Candidate Victories in Vermont
http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr110204b.html

to start my own thread??

upping the number to cut down on freeper posts. Can't find the info now... maybe 250? Contact the administrators at admin@democraticunderground.com and ask.

those initiatives in his little piece about how the election results portend a "moral re-evaluation".

It's funny how people want to "abandon" things we never really supported in the first place, much to our shame.

as Dems! whatever

Maybe this was satire and I missed it, but anyone who thinks marijuana is an important presidential political issue shouldn't be voting just like the clowns who vote based on who's gonna deliver them prayer in school.

A marijuana smoker is arrested every -- what? -- 43 seconds? Or is it less than that now?

You're damned tootin' it's an important Presidential issue. If Bush can mention drug testing programs in his State of the Union speeches, then Marijuana laws are up for discussion. And as we've seen in California, it's an issue that needs to be addressed on the federal level. The Dems are losing Green and Libertarian votes ... and a lot of people who don't vote care about marijuana reforms more than gay marriage and guns.

Jimmy Carter campaigned and won on this issue ... but he mucked it up and didn't deliver ... the Dems haven't seized the issue since.

During the 2004 campaign, the Bush administration announced it planned to divert money from heroin and cocaine programs to fight marijuana. How absurd, right? Kerry didn't say a thing. Kerry could have pointed out how that kind of circular thinking is why the drug war has been a failure. The Bush folks are willing to take a position ... not the Dems. Pretty sad.

.........I'm not interested in pandering to that special interest group, when even if you got them motivated, they'd do what they did on November 2nd.......sit in their basement eating Twinkies and playing Nintendo. The "all talk, no action" parties are not what we need more of.......

:smoke:

than abandoning the poor in the name of electability.

:hi:
:smoke:

myself. I'm for a total repeal of all prohibition on drugs, but I don't sit home and not vote until a candidate comes along who agrees with me.

The difference is, as one person noted, gays and abortion are about real people in one case and life and death in another. I can chose whether or not to use drugs and therefore risk arrest. Pregnant is pregnant, it's the rest of your life. Same with gay - it's who you are. I ditched the drug issue, I'm not ditching abortion, it's my damn BODY.

Not to mention the fact that, hey, if you want to do drugs you can do it. Illegal abortion means people without a Dr. in the family are stuck in the back alley. And being gay appears to mean to some people that it's OK to beat you up and hang you on a fence post to die.

To avoid needing an abortion, you don't have to have sex. You don't NEED to have homosexual sex. All of these things are "luxury items" if you want to go by the rules you apply to marijuana.

"It's my damn body?" Yeah ... that's exactly how marijuana smokers feel. Especially the medical patients who find relief from smoking marijuana.

Gays aren't going to jail because they want to have sex (well, not in most states). Women aren't going to jail because they seek abortion. A marijuana smoker is arrested every minute. And you're telling me it's a moot national issue?

The fact that the Dems gave up on the marijuana issue is a key reason why I'm an independent -- an independent who re-registered democrat to vote in the primaries this year. (Don't worry ... I'm going back to the indie world.)

it was a moot national issue? My point is that you can't apply the same logic to every single issue. In the real world, everybody cannot refuse to vote until a candidate comes along who agrees with them on every issue. Ending prohibition on drugs is WAY extreme to the point where right now it's dead in the water. The vast majority do not want it. Abortion and homosexuality are nowhere near as out there, enjoy far more support, and are a lot further along in their develoment as issues that the public willing to address. You have to pick your battles. My point to the poster is that picking your battles is not the same as abandoning every issue that IS a battle.

I can't abandon an issue I never supported. :)

Shoot, it's been archived, so I can't pull it up. It was from a few days ago though. Basically the theory was that Nader was calling for a recount in New Hampshire so that he could still spoil one state and encourage his followers for next time. That was before I knew that the exit polls showed Kerry as way farther ahead than the ballot counts.

but this issue will never be addressed during this administration. They have always been in cahoots with the cartels on one level or another, Kikki Camerano died in vain.

One of the biggest money launderers, and suspected drug dealers, Jorge Hank Rohn, is now the Mayor of Tijuana. You can look up his sordid past on google, PBS did an excellent story on him. Jorge is buddy buddy with the San Diego Tourist Bureau, among other "dignified" City leaders.

Don't get me wrong, I am for legalization in order to put these murderous cartels OUT OF BUSINESS. Where we lived before, in Ensenada a couple years back, an entire family of 15, men, pregnant women and children were mowed down by these killers, lined up on their back patio and shot to death, then their throats slit. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I have a dozen more stories to tell you, but maybe later.

In addition, the Indians want the cartels OUT of Chihuahua. Go to the news source I listed under events & activism for more on that story.

We have lost two magnificent editors recently from ZETA, and the owner was also shot, now he lives and publishes out of San Diego. Their crime? Exposing the Cartels and political developments in Mexico and the United States.We have lost excellent reporters from the Mexicali area, and many human rights activists. Their crime? Exposing the visiciousness of the Cartels. And don't ever forget Digna Ochoa and her followers. Butchered!!!Why? Because she worked for human rights, for the indian rights, and stood up to the Cartels.

The drug business is blocking this country's development, keeping it a two class, two bit third world nation, and it has also backfired; the biggest problem down here, strung out kids in the Ejidos on meth with no hope and there ain't any Betty Ford clinics down here. But I guess if you keep em doped up and dumb, nothing will change.

I implore all of you, grow your own or get it from the Canadians, it's better stuff anyway, and put a chokehold on these godamm
cartels. PLEASE don't buy from anyone who gets it from MEXICO. You will be helping the society as a whole down here.

FUCK THE CARTELS !!!


This is Digna Ochoa and the following is 'Dignified - The Ballad of Digna Ochoa' by Lila Downs. When you look at her picture, remember how she was murdered, remember what she stood for.





To all those women who are fighting for dignity
and respect

I am a woman who cries
I am a woman who speaks
I am a woman who gives life
I am a woman who pounds
I am a woman spirit
I am a woman who screams

At night you can hear a cry, it comes from afar
Down south they say, it's the voice of silence
In this closet there are skeletons hiding
Because a woman, because a woman fought for her rights

From the mountain you can hear the voice of thunder
It is the clear voice, the lightning bolt of truth
In this holy life, where nobody forgives anything
But if a woman - but if a woman - fights for her
dignity

I followed your footsteps, little girl
Up to the mountain
And I followed the way to a God
In the company of ghosts.


Rest in peace, Digna and all the thousands and thousands murdered by the Drug Cartels. We loved you very much.