Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Exit Poll revisited -- 'another way to approach voting irregularities'

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
hertopos Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:41 AM
Original message
Exit Poll revisited -- 'another way to approach voting irregularities'
I was thinking about exit poll yesterday and I realized that I have not seen the following types of arguments so far.

Let's ask exit polling company to release their result and demand the answers 'why they are so wrong!!"

Look, the bottom line is that either exit polls or published polls are wrong.
If you know anything about exit polls, you will understand that it would take a vast coordinated efforts to change exit polls from actual results.

What enraged me most is the fact that the media and some people buy some very crappy arguments as enough reasons for 'wrong exit polls' and try to discredit much more 'credible leads' to 'wrong published polls'.

This is very serious issue, we have to find out why 'exit polls' and 'published polls' are so different.

We have to start pushing exit poll companies for answers. Exit polling is a well-established part of polling business. It is serious science and business.

Does anyone has some idea to do something about this? We can set up a non-partisan web site about 'is exit poll wrong?"

For people who still don't understand the accuracy of exit poll, I paste a post at Zogby poll.

Hertopos
**************************************************
Votergate 2004; We Don't Need Paper to Prove Fraud, But We Do Need Money and Leadership, NOW.

Since last Tuesday there has been a justifiable uproar about the major differences between the exit polls in Ohio and Florida and the actual results. Democrats and Republicans, who both saw the same exit polls that showed an electoral landslide in favor of Kerry, have confirmed this. Investigative reporter Bob Parry confirmed from his sources that the Bush campaign was convinced they were going to lose. George H. W. Bush also confirmed this in an interview with The Today Show. So why have the exit polls been so wrong in the last two elections? It is clear that there must have been manipulation in the voting machines. While there's been a lot of talk of problems with not having paper trails, computer fraud is uncovered most of the time without paper trails.

As a former C.P.A and auditor, I have used statistical sampling throughout my career with great confidence. With electronic record keeping, it's easy to create a program to falsify the books. But there are ways to uncover that. Auditors have developed statistical ways to cut right through corruption in companies. You don't even need a paper trail. These statistical approaches can be used with almost 100% accuracy to uncover fraud.
With the votergate 2004 it's a numbers game just like it is with corporate accounting, even easier. All you're talking about is one number-- total votes for each candidate.

There's a huge difference between polling what WILL happen and polling something that has already happened. The reliability of polling something that has already happened is highly reliable vs. predictive polls, like Gallup or Zogby, which is very risky. The reliability can be, not plus or minus 4 percent as we see with predictive poplls, but rather a much more reliable plus or minus one half or one tenth of one percent with exit polls, because those are based on asking people who already voted. I would even say that if the exit polling were done in the key precincts of Florida and Ohio, which it was, then these results should be practically “bullet proof.”
It is important that people know how accurate random sampling of historical events can be in order for them to understand how unlikely it is that the exit polls were wrong. ...

Sheldon Drobny is CPA and Venture Capitalist and co-founder of Air America Radio.
(11/9/2004)
- By Sheldon Drobny, Op-Ed News
******************************************************************
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hertopos Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, please read
We have to force media to 'prove why exit polls are wrong!!', which many people will see very quickly much harder to prove 'published votes are wrong!!"

Hertopos
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cheshire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. You just may have something there. Kerry has lawyer counting now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. READ THIS RESEARCH PAPER: Univ. Of PA
http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/11/The_unexplained_exit_poll_discrepancy_v00k.pdf

"The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy,"
Dr. Steven F. Freeman
University of Pennsylvania

"As much as we can say in social science that something is impossible, it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote counts in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Link to Drobny article and several other related links
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hertopos Donating Member (715 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I am reading these stuff since November 2nd...
so, what I am trying to say is that we have to do something with exit polling side!!

If they are 'wrong', they have a obligation to investigate how exit poll was rigged.

This is why I lost the very last 1% of faith in media. Come on, they have been using exit poll pretty much since TV news were on. Rather than just calling us tin foil hatters, why don't they 'investigate' these differences instead. Two set of numbers are too different to be within a margin of error, therefore, one of them has to be wrong. Very simple. Just remember one of them has to be wrong.

Hertopos
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kindigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The last I saw an exit pollster say is.....
...we need to come up with new formulas for exit polling, obviously the ones we are using are no longer reliable.

SAY WHAT?

The same formulas used for every election, and were never wrong until FL 2000? The same formulas that have been accurate for how many elections until 2000?

And the pollsters' answer is to come up with new formulas to fit the new reality.



:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Exit polls have always been relied on, until electronic voting
Does anyone think that it is odd that exit polls have always been used with 100% confidence to predict the outcome of elections without any trouble, until the electronic voting machines appeared in elections?

Why have exit polls always been so right in the past, yet fail miserably in elections with electronic voting today?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC