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It's MY Turn to tell you what the 'REAL' problem is .....

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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:13 PM
Original message
It's MY Turn to tell you what the 'REAL' problem is .....
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 04:40 PM by Trajan
Since the sixties, the right wing has effectively misrepresented the liberal, progressive agenda, and have labelled the so-called 'Liberal Agenda' a failure ...

A Failure ? ...

Through FDR, JFK and LBJ: The Democratic Party, and it's 'Liberal Agenda' have lifted the lot of the common citizens by increasing it's wages, by placing limits on work conditions, by denying child labor, by limiting hours and demanding overtime for hours worked above a threshhold, by providing public schooling free of charge, by providing social security and medicare to ward off the disastrous results of economic calamity on the elderly and infirm, by taking the reins of the 'free market', and forcing it to heel under the SEC, by demanding the civil rights of non-whites be respected at home, work, school and the voting booth, by creating viable methods to stop hunger and malnutrition in america's poorer communities ...

ALL of these things, and more, were the objective goals of the so-called 'Liberal Agenda' ... and frankly: they have been a resounding SUCCESS ! ....

Have we stopped ALL hunger and need ? ... NO !

Have we brought ALL the common citizens out of the shadow of ignorance by schooling them and training them for work ? ... NO !

We havent done ANYTHING that has helped EVERYONE who needs it: .. but that doesnt mean our agenda is failed or without success ...

NO ONE ever expected to alleviate ALL hurt and need through the intercession of governmental power ... but the will was exerted, through the process of consensual government, to do what COULD be done to reverse the trend of need and want which grew ever greater under the GOP, Laissez Faire program ... The hunger was REAL, the poverty was REAL and rampant under the GOP Laissez Faire theory ... Welfare DID NOT EVER create poverty: GREED did ....

You want to see a 'failed agenda' ? .... Look at the last time the GOP held power in the WH and Congress: the end of the Harding, Coolidge and Hoover fiasco, which culminated with the Great Depression ...... There was no greater failure to see in our national lives than that of the 1920's GOP government ....

No: EVERY hungry stomach is not full, EVERY able bodied man is not employed, and EVERY wide eyed child is not sufficiently schooled ...

But we were getting ever closer ....

THe 'Liberal Agenda' is NOT a failure ... it is a ROUSING SUCCESS ! ....

Now: ... What is the 'problem' ? ...

The problem is this: NO ONE has defended the 'Liberal Agenda' ... NONE will stand and declare its success .. they have been cowed through fear of being labelled 'Tax and Spend' liberals .... They have run away from the very ideas that have actually WORKED to benefit the common people ....

The Liberal Agenda is NOT about 'taxing and spending', it is about 'promoting the general welfare' of the common citizens by pooling the resources of those who have benefitted from our system of government for the good of our society of citizenry ....

ALL societies are 'taxed' in some way ... and the promotion of the general welfare of the people of the United States of America neednt be heavy and onerous on it's citizens .... It must only be spent wisely, for the greatest effect: The 'private sector' has already proven itself to lack the will to lift the lot of ALL citizens ...

The development of the system of consenual government was NOT intended to benefit only the few at the expense of the many ... it was intended to lift the fates of ALL of it's citizens ...

Accordingly: It is our right to form parties that will use their office, through our consent, to uplift the lowest among us .... It is NOT 'wrong' to do this ... it is absolutely right ....

UNTIL we and those who supposedly support the ideas of Liberalism and Progressivism STAND UP TO THE FEAR .... and seek to promote that agenda .. we will continue to lose those citizens who only hear the strawman fallacies and false representations of what and who we are ...

They say we have failed ....

HA ! ... Bullshit ....

I am LIBERAL, I am PROUD, and I want you to know: We have NOT failed .....

IN closing: a quote from Adam Smith, from "Wealth of Nations" ...

"The subjects of every state ought to contribute toward the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state .... 'remedy inequality of riches as much as possible, by relieving the poor and burdening the rich.'"
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Interesting Adam Smith Quote
although it can be read either as support for a flat tax system ("in proportion to the revenue they enjoy...") or for an extremely progressive tax scale ("remedy inequality of riches" and" relieving the poor and burdening the rich").

And yes, the progressive agenda has been a great success. And like gay rights, it can make progress even when the Democratic Party is out of power.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Adam Smith was actually quite progressive
Most Republicans who quote Adam Smith have never actually read Adam Smith.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. MORE Adam Smith
From the Steve Kangas 'Liberalism Resurgent' website: http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/tenets.htm

"All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

"No society can surely be flourishing and happy when part of the members are poor and miserable."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"Our merchants and master-manufacturers complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price, and thereby lessening the sale of their goods both at home and abroad. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"The liberal reward of labor, therefore, as it is the necessary effect, so it is the natural symptom of increasing national wealth. The scanty maintenance of the laboring poor, on the other hand, is the natural symptom that things are at a stand, and their starving condition that they going backwards fast."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"The rate of profit... is naturally low in rich and high in poor countries, and it is always highest in the countries which are going fastest to ruin."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"Whenever the legislature attempts to regulate differences between masters and their workmen, its counsellors are always the masters. When the regulation, therefore, is in favor of the workmen, it is always just and equitable; but it is sometimes otherwise when in favor of the masters."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"The interest of dealers, however,... is a always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public... The proposal of any new law or regulation of commerce which comes frm this order ought... never to be adopted till after having been long and carefully examined, not only with the most scrupulous, but with the most suspicious attention. It comes from an order of men whose interest is never exactly the same with that of the public, who have generally an interest to deceive and even to oppress the public, and who accordingly have, upon many occasions, both deceived and oppressed it."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations

"In a society of an hundred thousand families, there will perhaps be one hundred who don't labour at all, and who yet, either by violence, or by the more orderly oppression of law, employ a greater part of the labour of society than any other ten thousand in it. The division of what remains, too, after this enormous defalcation, is by no means made in proportion to the labour of each individual. On the contrary those who labour most get least. The opulent merchant, who spends a great part of his time in luxury and entertainments, enjoys a much greater proportion of the profits of his traffic, than all the Clerks and Accountants who do the business. These last, again, enjoying a great deal of leisure, and suffering scarce any other hardship besides the confinement of attendance, enjoy a much greater share of the produce, than three times an equal number of artizans, who, under their direction, labour much more severely and assiduously. The artizan again, tho' he works generally under cover, protected from the injuries of the weather, at his ease and assisted by the convenience of innumerable machines, enjoys a much greater share than the poor labourer who has the soil and the seasons to struggle with, and, who while he affords the materials for supplying the luxury of all the other members of the common wealth, and bears, as it were, upon his shoulders the whole fabric of human society, seems himself to be buried out of sight in the lowest foundations of the building."
-- Adam Smith, first draft of Wealth Of Nations

{And here is what Adam Smith thought about labor unions:}

"We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations {that is, unions or colluding organizations} of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labor above their actual price."
-- Adam Smith, Wealth Of Nations
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, yes and yes!
Couldn't have said it better, myself! Thanks!
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. And further-
Edited on Fri Nov-12-04 04:35 PM by EST
I have preached this over and over, although not nearly so graciously or eloquently. I have so wished, and demanded that our "leaders" step up and hand out the same truths in front of the millions here in America, and elsewhere, and all we get is natter, natter, more of the same, excuses, rebuttals, crap, non-sequitur, obfuscation and "political speak." Thanks again for your clarity.


edited for:digitally challenged brain-finger connections
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. One other aspect which I didnt include ...
was the co-option of the liberal program from the Democratic Party over the last few decades ...

It used to be that the GOP rejected the idea of free public education, and derided the Department of Education as much as the UN ... it used to be that the GOP railed against Social Security and Unemployment and food stamps and such: now they act as if they invented these ideas ....

They have slyly repackaged such liberal notions, and have ostensibly embraced them .... but the fact is: they still intend to kill them ...

Think of it: Social Security has been safe for 70 years ... and now: the FIRST chance they have to do so since then: They will gut it and let it die ....

Make no mistake: privatization is about the starvation of SS ....
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. One hundred percent spot on!!
Problem is--can they be stopped? Is the only real option to get out of the way for now and then clean up the mess later? The scary part is the fact that there may be no later...
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Make no mistake
No Child Left Behind is DESIGNED to kill public schools. There is NO WAY every school and every district can meet its demands. And you'll please note they "forgot" to fund NCLB. That was very much intentional, too. Schools have to leap over these impossible hurdles and they aren't even given resources to help them.

For instance, 100% of students must pass the TAKS in Texas by 2006, I believe.

That INCLUDES ESL (English as a Second Language) and Special Education students. Yep.

And any test with 100% passing is not valid or reliable as an indicator of ANYTHING.

NCLB is designed to kill public schools. There is now way most schools can reach the goals in it. No way. It asks for perfection.

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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. Quick kick before I do some errands ...
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. THIS IS SO TRUE
I read a thread from someone this morning stating that they were sorry but he/she realized that the Democrats really are out of the MAIN STREAM. I had an appointment and wanted to respond, but now can't find it.

But I SAY... No We're Not! Bush supposededly got 3 million plus more votes than Kerry. First, I don't beleive that happened and second that's not much for the whole nation. I personally think there was Rigging going on in EVERY state just so they could say they HAD ALL THESE EXTRA votes!!

I want to stand UNITED with the DEMOCRATS and NOT let the REPUKES get away with DEFINING ME!! So for all of you who are ready to throw in the towel and slink away with your tail between your legs.... then I just can't respect you anymore!

We need a MASSIVE PROTEST in Washington D.C. either BEFORE or AFTER the Inauguration. NOT ON THE SAME DAY! The Media will just call us SUPPORTERS if we do it on Inauguration DAY!

STAND UNITED... Keep this going or we will forever lose and our country will no longer be FREE!
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ROakes1019 Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Don't Think of an Elephant
Recently I read a book by George Lakoff with this title, which says what I've been saying for a while: Republicans have a strict father, authoritarian, mentality and Democrats have a nurturant, caring mentality. Republicans believe that children (or American citizens) must toe the line and accept discipline from the father or be punished. Denying women the right to choose abortion, denying people the right to health care and pensions, smothering all dissent--all are ways of punishing people for not obeying the all-mighty father. They frame their wedge issues to appeal to citizens with a similar authoritarian mentality: everyone can pull himself up by his bootstraps and be rewarded (monetarily) and everyone who doesn't (no one is allowed an excuse) will be punished. In foreign affairs, nations that don't toe the line are likewise punished. Bush refused to take a congratulatory phone call from the new Spanish leader, for example. Strict father mentalilty allows people to feel they're entitled to prosper while dissenters must accept becoming a slave class, there to serve and bolster the deserving masters. I could go on but you get the point.

Democrats must begin to frame our values to show we're the true party of compassion. For instance, "tax relief" is a clever way Repugs frame the attempt to reward the good citizens who've proven their worth by making lots of money. We should say what every reasonable person knows to be true--taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society. There are "commons," things that benefit everyone, such as public schools, highways, the military, homeland defense, decent health, that no one on his own, even with his enormous "tax relief," can secure for himself. But tax cuts are a slippery slope issue: the real end purpose is to starve all social programs. Repugs want to starve public education so they can control the content of education through charter and private (often parochial) schools. Tort reform is not really about limiting lawyers fees or frivolous law suits; it is about freeing corporations from regulations that would protect citizens from environmental hazards and criminal wages, for those who can secure wages at all.

Democrats are the true Christians and I believe Christ was a liberal. Democrats believe Christians receive salvation through grace, a concept of the love of a nurturant God. Our God, our Christ, said that even as you do for the least of these you do for me. Their God is a wrathful God of punishment, the strict father. They use their God to threaten dissent and disobedience. We see God, Christ, in our fellowman, in the widow and beggar, in our community of neighbors next door and around the world. But we must organize and get our vision out.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Also read Garrison Keillor's "Homegrown Democrat"
he makes very good points about taxes and living in a civilized compassionate society.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Great post, Trajan!!!
:bounce: I'm with you!! :bounce:

:kick::kick::kick:

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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Last KICK for the night ...
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. FANTASTIC POST
and EXACTLY how I feel.

When I first realized I was a Democrat, sometime in the late 80s, I did a lot of reading up on the history of what the two parties had accomplished in America.

I was absolutely STRUCK by the fact that, time and again, it was the Democrats who worked for the COMMON GOOD, it was the Democrats who stood up for the little guy, the least among us. Every. Single. Time. THAT'S when I knew 100% that I had chosen the right party.

The Dems don't always use the best strategies to counter the vitriol of the right, who has never seemed to be for the common good or the little guy. But that doesn't change the fact that the Dems ARE on the side of common good and DO fight for the little guy.

Of course the far left liberal in me sees things even in the DNC I'd rather not see. Things that seem to be inevitable (or are they?) with being a huge political party in a huge nation run by a huge chattering media and corporations.

But.
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c-macdonald Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. How Progressives Can Win the Culture War
We are Americans.

We are teachers, lawyers, bankers, and doctors.
We work in factories, warehouses, farmhouses and office buildings.
We attend sporting events, company picnics, church functions, and reunions.
...and we believe we are a united country.

We stand up and sing along when we hear the National Anthem and speak loudly when we recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
We know love and life-long commitment are the foundations of a family.
We honor those who dedicate their lives to serving and protecting our children, our families, and our freedom.
We honor those who gave their lives for freedom by respecting the freedom of our neighbors to live the lives they lead.
We know that God gives us the strength to succeed and the wisdom to know the difference between right and wrong.
We ask our teachers and parents to work together in order to help our children succeed.
We demand a maximum return for our tax investments and believe they should be used for the greater good.

We believe in the American birth-right of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
We believe in empowering and giving voices to all Americans.
We believe in is both a right and responsibility to speak out where we feel there is injustice.
We believe in the sanctity of nature and that the beauty of America must be preserved.
We believe in cultivating a culture of service where we develop stronger communities built on empathy.
We believe in working hard and embracing progress in order to ensure better opportunities for our children.
We believe in our cultural inheritance set forth by our founding fathers to never be satisfied with the status quo.
We believe in being a beacon of hope and integrity for the rest of the world.

We are hard-workers, free-thinkers and freedom-lovers.
We are Americans.

-TCNJ 11/12/04
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