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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:07 PM
Original message
What went "wrong" with the elections.
This is whether Bush won honestly or not because millions obviously still voted for him regardless.

I've been thinking about the post-election time, and how much hatred is brewing. I just kept asking myself last night "Why do conservatives hate us so much? Why do they distrust us? Why do they distrust the world? Why do they trust nobody but themselves?". One answer was that they have a genuine fear of liberals destroying the marriage, family, America, etc. Fear of course turns into hatred.

But something else dawned on me. It goes back to a question that I've been having for a long time now. I've notice that there was a revolution like thing going on in the 1960s throughout the whole industrialized world. All countries but us contained their mostly egalitarian status. Not us. The conservatives rose again in the name of Christian fundamentalism and tried to take away our rights from abortion to gay rights to attacks on social and government programs (We're the only industrialized country without universal healthcare), etc. I kept asking myself WHY?!

I was blaming it on Ronald Reagan because it seems that a lot of conservative ideas rose from the dead when he was president. Now, I realize that this has been brewing for thirty years.

Here is what I think happened.

Vietnam was an outrage to the world, including the Americans against the war (both liberal and conservative Americans). Troops got labeled as "baby killers" by some people mostly because of the My Lai masscre. Troops came home and they got spit on both physically and metaphorically. Many people on the left will either say that this never happened or that it rarely happened, but I know for a fact it did. I've read about it, and I've talked to a couple of people about it.

As a result of some people looking down upon all of the troops for their role in the Vietnam war, all people who protested the Vietnam war and all wars after that got labeled as hating the troops.

Since the Vietnam war, the common perception has been that all troops are baby killers (which really isn't held by most leftist that I know today) and that people against the war are against the troops (hates them, spits on them, etc).

People against the war are often labelled as leftist. There are exceptions, but let's face it, it's mostly the left that comes out and actually marches against the war.

This made/makes troops feel uncomfortable with the left. They feel hated by the left. As a result, many of them started leaning to the right. Since there was a hell of a lot of guys in Vietnam, that leaves a hell of a lot of people leaning to the right. That leaves a lot of the kids that they had. This brings on at least half of a country that leans to the right.

Now comes fundamentalism.

Fundamentalist Christians (such as those in the religious right) feed on the concept of God blessing America's wars. This religion probably attacts a lot of military families and friends of theirs. It doesn't make all people from the military want to become a fundamentalist, but the fundamentalists are probably considered to be "less hateful" toward the side of the troops. Therefore, they probably ended up on a lot of the same side throughout many elections over the years.

Now, let's get to John Kerry.

He was an advocate against the war. I personally took that to think that he chose to go to war, and then started speaking out against it when he saw how wrong it was. That's not how many people who used to be in the military look at it. That's not how a lot of the right looks at it.

They look at it as us *finally* trying to crown an anti-war protester/supposedly very strong liberal as the president. Since anti-war protester is the ultimate symbole of hatred to them, they really HATED the concept of him being the president.

I'm not going to pretend that the country isn't divided. I knew it was divided the moment people chanted out that stupid "United We Stand" comment years ago.

Here's what I think we're going to have to do.

We're going to have to get people on the right (particularly military families) to trust us more.

Here's some of my suggestions.

1) No more calling troops baby killers. I personally have NEVER worked with anybody against the war that ever said stuff like that. In fact, I worked with people that actually admired them for being a troop. But no more calling them baby killers (unless it comes out that this particular troop really did kill a baby on purpose; which case I say to charge him/her).

2) If we're working an activist or some other group and we find somebody out of the ordinary wanting to join (and they're for the group's cause), LET THEM JOIN. For example, let a troop join an environmental group or a women's rights group. Even if you don't personally understand why they would want to join, let them join. Let Republicans that want to join do so. So what if they're against the war, but not for abortion being legal. Work with them to help stop the war, then work against them on the abortion issue. Show them that it's not personal.

I'm in my twenties, and I don't think that we have a clear left and right in our country. I think that some people are pro-environment and anti-abortion at the same time. I think that some are rich and Democratic at the same time. I think that some are anti-war and anti-abortion at the same time. Unless it's an organizational group (that clearly says you have to be leftist to join), let the people out of the ordinary join and involve them in the work. I was still conservative when I joined the anti-war movement, but it was pretty clear that I needed to do my part in the group and not just look pretty. Do the same for them. I know you all are thinking that these people don't want to join these groups, but you might find one day that they might want to. Don't push them away if that happens.

I know it's hard, but try to make an effort socially. Don't give people dirty looks just because they voted for Bush (unless they've made a habit of provoking hate for as long as you've known them). Try to talk to them sometimes. Try to smile at them at times. A woman in my night class heard me say that I was going to call in sick if my candidate didn't win the election. She asked me who I was voting for, and I said Kerry. She made this funny, tensed up look and said she was voting for Bush because she thought Bush would support the military better. Her fiance was in the military and this was an important issue to her. I was upset the day after the election at her for that. I was like "Why was that more important than the rest of the issues? Don't you care if your husband dies in war?". I didn't say it, but I wanted to. Instead, I fought off all temptation because I knew in my heart that she really meant no harm by voting for Bush. I just smiled at her occasionally, and by the end of the night we exchanged a word or two to each other (not about the election; just other stuff). And last night, we were just talking like normal again. I'm still upset about the election, but I really don't think that saying "F you! You voted for Bush! You're now my enemy!" is going to help. My gut has been telling the whole time that turning against every Bush supporter we know was not only wrong (because I know that most voters of Bush mean no harm), but would in the long run MAKE THINGS WORSE.

We had a war in Vietnam 30 years ago. As a result, we've had a left and a right at each other's throats ever since then. It's not going to get better by defining each other as enemies of each other now. It's hurting the United States as a country. More importantly, it's hurting the world. If SOME of the left wasn't so hateful towards the troops years ago (which I think has caused a major conservative backlash), we might not be in an endless war right now. That's because most of the 58 million people (who voted for Bush) would probably feel more comfortable with our side than with Bush's side. That doesn't mean that they'd be as leftist as us, but perhaps they wouldn't want Bush. Of course the wars seem right to them. Of course the world "hates America". Of course liberals "hate them". That's how they've been seeing things for 30 years.
It just never really hit me until now.

This doesn't mean that I don't hold the conservative side responsible for their HUGE amount of hatred that they've spewed over the years. I do, and I'll keep fighting against that. However, I think it's time that a leftist came forward and say where *we* might have been going wrong for the last 30 years. One of the things I often do is analyze. I do a lot of that as a History major, and often come to conclusions contrary to what I originally thought and contrary to what I'm comfortable with. This is one of those times. I'm not saying this because I'm on the side of the right. I'M NOT. I'm saying this because as painful as it may be, I think it's time we started learning from yesterday's mistakes before we repeat them. I do not want my kids and grandkids going through this shit. I want them to live in a country one day where the Republican Party is like other right winged parties in other countries; not like it is now. I don't want them having to fight tooth and nail for civil liberties because the people on the right think that they're out to destroy their marriages, families, lives, and America. I want elections for them to be the same as it is in other countries, BORING. I don't want them going through the end of an election with the realization that the country is split in two with both sides viciously hating each other and mistrusting each other. And for God sakes, I don't want them living with the constant reminder that the world "hates them" because of what the right wingers did concerning their vote.
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. 1:not kicking the shit out of the swift boat adds showed weakness.
2: the gotv was a diasater, there is no way in hell that we should have allowed the sos to have our people standing outside in the cold rain for hours. I thought that's what they were spending some of that 300 million on. getting people to registered and to the polls should have been effortless. not stories about crack for votes, and other dumb shit.
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