VOTE FRAUD!! What can we do?

LOTS!!

First and foremost: Contribute to Help America Recount
HelpAmericaRecount is a new 527 set up by DUer hedda-Foil (also co-founder of the National Ballot Integrity Project) and others specifically to help fund recounts EVERYWHERE, in as many places as possible:

www.helpamericarecount.org

Second: Join the DU Activists here:
SIGN UP HERE: Join VOTE FRAUD WORK (write, organize, research, kick) Team
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=201&topic_id=3830&mesg_id=3830


Third: Stay informed and help inform others.
Check out ACTIVISM posts in these threads which are an easy way to keep abreast of news and developments:

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

There are links for wonderful flyers, there are links for volunteering in Ohio, there are links for wwriting OH SoS Ken Blackwell, signing petitions, etc., etc., etc.

AND, as complete a compilation of links for the Vote Fraud news (along with Background Info re Companies, Resources, etc.) as I can manage.


Finally, help keep this kicked. Thank you.

And PLEASE get involved -- the democracy you save may be your own.

...Well done!

- But the DEMOCRATIC PARTY has given up on this issue...if they were ever interested in the first place. They have accepted the reality of a 2nd Bush* term since Nov. 3rd.

- Not to sound like a defeatist...but nothing can be done unless someone WITHIN the party leadership wants to make this a pivotal issue. It doesn't appear that this is going to happen.

- Perhaps we need to recognize that Democracy as a patient is in cardiac failure. It's about to become a corpse unless extraordinary measures take place to get the heart beating again.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

This is about protecting (or more accurately resurrecting) -- while we still can -- our right to VOTE and actually see the people who the majority of the people wanted take office. This is about exposing the riggable, hackable, paperless voting machines, and exposing the massive GOP-sponsored vote suppression which has been robbing many Americans of their right to even cast their votes (and I wouldn't care which party, personally, but it's the Democratic voters who are affected).

This isn't about Kerry, at all. In fact, tho my time is quite limited, I've made a number of posts on threads where people are swooning under the weight of their fantasies about the posibility of overturning this election. Ain't gonna happen.

Kerry and other Dems can either follow the people's lead on this, or get the hell outta the way. WE The People are going to have to do this, not just without the HELP of most of our Dem leaders, but in spite of their obstructionism (however innocent or well-intentioned it may be -- or not).

Thanks for the compliment.

...but I still believe that 'the people' can't do anything without the help of those they elect as 'lawmakers'. In other words...they're responsible for turning the deeds of activists into action.

- Perhaps you've noticed that Democrats in general haven't done any more than Republicans to ensure that there are 'free and fair' elections? Both parties know, understand and accept that literally millions of votes are thrown away every election cycle. Yet they've done nothing to change it. Why? Well...Republicans want to keep the status quo because they usually benefit from the fraud. I still can't say why Democrats aren't inspired to make changes. Perhaps they've been intimidated into submission?

- I'm not suggesting that the activism should stop...but simply suggesting that someone in government has to step forward, accept the reality of fraud and then do something about it by promoting law to protect the voter.

FUCK THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IF THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT HONEST ELECTIONS.

We'll see how much, or little, they care by 12/13. Until then, I'm going to pursue the issue regardless of their input or lack thereof, and withhold final judgment.

If the Dems do nothing by that point, I'll go from an independent to Green, just to express my anger. Then I'll leave the country (I can get dual citizenship in Holland, since I was born there), because if we don't have honest elections, there is zero point in fighting for any issue.

I'm done with them forever if there isn't a major turn-around in the next few weeks.

... of public opinion. In fact, I strongly recommend that you take the point-of-view: "it's our job to force the DEmocrats to do the right thing."

It's fair to ask for a review of the election result.

There's a thing called circumstancial evidence, and the neoCons has a bad record, sneak-wise. That in it self should be enough to alert most reasoned people when it comes out that another election is being questioned. Questioned, that's all.
Reasonable doubt SHOULD be enough to produce a breakthrough into the public space, and set the agenda with the question:

Should the election result be accepted without further investigation?

The Republican cheating is based on a strategy of QUAGMIRE & CONFUSION.
If the legal/official syrup slows down every attempt by disillustioned Democrats to get the message through (not to mention the poodles and pundits in the Center/Right/Right-Right media), the only thing to do is to sharpen the message, get rid of the CONFUSION and pound the public space until it yields.

Here's a question you should ask yourself every day:

Was the election a fraud or wasn't it?

If the answer is yes, act accordingly determined. If it is no (and one should always keep an option open for that point, if only to stay sane), you should still act accordingly determined.

There should be taken steps to insure that the American democracy works properly, so that the voters confidence in their democracy is returned. I mean - really? It's the basics, folks. And the neoCons caught cheating AGAIN? This message should be a seller!

'It's un-American to cheat the American people!'

I see posters!!!!! I see T-shirts!!!!! I point my finger at FOX, NRO, the neoCons, the Heritage Foundation - YOU made this happen!! You've got to take the blame for this!!!

*convulsions*

Sorry, I've read too much Falwell-documents lately.

But the message of the Right is clear:
No. We didn't cheat. You have misunderestimated everything. <jeer>
Four more years of groupthink, testosteron and poor impulse control! We Want War!

On the democratic side there's a mixed message as the leadership has conceded the election result, while the grassroot hasn't(?).

Only journalists of some importance to criticize the results is Olbermann at MSNBC and the Zogby quote (update if there are more), and there's no accept in the mainstream media for any questioning of the result.
And no response from the leadership of the Dems either.

It would take some evidence to get them to un-concede the election, because the neoCon/Evangelican movement would bring out everything they have against anyone of importance standing up and threatening their godgiven right to power.
This would be the Mother of All Flip-Flops, and the neoCons doesn't consider themselves above Saddam-lingo (or Saddam interrogation methods) - and the ugly election campaign would be a reality for x more months. Go large.
I'm quite sure that this is what's behind the Dems decision to concede; a concern for the American people, and the general political climate in the US. Sometimes it is wise to take the fight, sometimes it isn't. I don't pretend to know what they think, but I sure hope there's some strategy behind this.

Best thing to do would be to find another outlet than Kerry and DNC, an underdog like Dean, to build the message and make it voiced.

He's folksy. He's connecting to people. He's a good talker. He sometimes look funny when he talks. He's got one of the fastest growing grassroot movements in US history.
Sounds like someone you know? ;-)
Imagine - Bush with a brain!
Not to mention democratic principles, a concience, his own computer and a friendly approach. And no wires.

Except to the Internet.
He's already taking on Falwell, which sounds like good reason to me :-)

One thing is to never let the critics slip over the election result, another is to keep it as a grudge while dealing with the very real, very serious, possibility of Jerry Falwell becoming the president.

Falwell/Robertson 2008, anyone?

Here's some link to articles published about the Diebold-machines, pre-election:

The Paperless Chase
College sophomores Nelson Pavlosky and Luke Smith rage against the electronic voting machine.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/hellraiser/2004/05/04_403.html

Diebold's Political Machine
Political insiders suggest Ohio could become as decisive this year as Florida was four years ago. Which is why the state's plan to use paperless touch-screen voting machines has so many up in arms.
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html

Digital Democracy?
The excruciatingly narrow presidential contest in Florida four years ago left the nation eager to adopt a more reliable voting system -- one that wouldn't systematically disenfranchise swaths of voters or raise suspicions of tampering. The goal was to eliminate the crude machines, puzzling butterfly ballots, and hanging chads that cost thousands of voters their choice in 2000.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/03/03_507.html

Virtual Voting
Bad news for voters seeking assurances that the fiasco of election day, 2000 -- with its chads, butterfly ballots, disputed recounts, and vanishing voter rolls -- can't happen again: it can. Witness the first meeting, on Wednesday, of the Election Assistance Commission wherein a panel of voting advocates and techies derided the very electronic voting systems that were supposed to save us from a repeat of Florida.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/dailymojo/2004/05/05_507.html

More articles about the possibility for fraud:

Exit Polls Right, Tallies Wrong?
The hot story in the blogosphere is that the "erroneous" exit polls that showed Kerry carrying Florida and Ohio (among other states) weren't erroneous at all – it was the numbers produced by voting machines that were wrong, and Kerry actually won.
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20416/

To Catch a Thief
We were six toasts into the wedding dinner when the conversation turned, as conversations usually do, to the possibility of a Republican theft of the election in November. "That's when we hit the streets!" declared the Cuban American community organizer from Pennsylvania. "Yeah!" bellowed the retired union president from Long Island, and we all pounded the table and raised our glasses yet again: "Everybody hit the streets!"
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20023/

2000 Still Rings in Florida
When Florida played host to the country's first constitutional crisis to leave the country without a president-elect, the fiasco just added a crowning feather in the state's wildly plumed cap. And it may be adding another one soon.
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20338/

Compendium Thread #2 and post these? Post them under "Background / Historical," if you want to post them there. Thanks.

I think the case should be presented this way.

sorry :-(. there won't be any recount. There is no chance of anyone but Smirk taking the oath in January. Ken Blackwell won't read your mail, and even if he does, he will read it from his new office as one of Smirk's advisors (or "fixers" if you will) - he's on the same career path as Cruella deHarris.

Do this if it makes you feel like you are doing something, but keep it in perspective - it's basically an academic exercise.

keep Bush from taking office. But then that's not the point.

(Try to pay attention here. :evilgrin: )

It's about election fraud and massive vote suppression both of which will only get much, much worse and prevent Americans from EVER picking their real choice for President or other federal (and eventually) state and local offices again.

You want just the "illusion" of democracy in the future, or do you want to actually be able to vote the bastards, fascists and incompetents out? Your choice, and the choice of every other American RIGHT NOW. You can either help make things happen, or you can help the other side by shrugging your shoulders over the whole thing, ignorantly believing this is merely about trying to get Bush from taking office again in January.

thecountry right now is controlled, almost completely, by a fascist government and their media arm. If you want to know how the BFEE will come to an end, read "The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich".

We all knew going into the election two weeks ago that the fix was probably in. And so it was. We tried our best with activism and money and it proved no match for the BFEE and their media cohorts. If all of our letter-writing and donations and petitioning and Bev's relentless effort BEFORE the election went for naught, then a retroactive plea to the choir is not going to have any effect at all. In fact, it may be counterproductive, as Bush's media will present the effort as "runaway conspiracy theory" while likely reporting none of the actual results.

At this moment, we have NO VOICE. Let the BFEE self-destruct, as they are sure to do, and THEN let's get to work. I fear that all of this windmill-tilting will just make you more aggravated.

There will be recounts in NH, OH & FL. If there is vote fraud, then somebody made it happen. And then we look to see how far up it goes. Wouldn't you want to see the criminals prosecuted?

Let's say, by some remote chance, that Blackwell didn't shred/wipe/format/invalidate every shred of possibly damaging evidence in the hour following Kerry's concession. Who will prosecute him? His Rove-supplied lawyers will kick this up to Fat Tony and Slappy faster than * can utter a four-word sentence. Then what's going to happen?

For god's sake, someone in Bush's office committed TREASON in the Plame case, and WE ARE NEVER GOING TO FIND OUT WHO IT WAS. If they can get away with that, what makes you think a little state-level voter fraud is going to be their downfall?

Next, two weeks have gone by since the fraud took place. You think there is any chance that Jeb tampered with the FL ballots in the meantime?

Finally, how much air time on Big Media is this story going to get? You will need a stop watch marked off in milliseconds to time it.

I'm aware of the recounts in OH and NH, but don't have any info on recounts in FL. Can you provide links to info?

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

"this" has already "made things happen."

Nader is doing the New Hampshire recount PURELY BECAUSE OF THE WORK OF TWO DUers and a few people on the ground in NH. Did you know that? (IdaBriggs and hedda_foil -- see links at bottom of my post.)

"This" has gotten coverage on Olbermann. I think he reads DU, frankly, because some of his story lines were like they were picked up straight from right here.

If I were convinced that NOTHING is possible against the fascist horde, I'd either try to move to another country or commit suicide. I'm cynical enough to believe your dystopian version is all too possible; and optimistic enough to want to work like hell to stem that tide.

But I'll say again -- and this is my last word to you on the subject, 'cause this is a massive waste of my time -- actually, I'll let Edmund Burke say it:

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.


Edited. Ugh, forgot the links. I'll also add, after reading your response to Stephanie, that I'm sure glad people who brought down the Berlin Wall didn't feel as you did. Or people in Poland following (oh, I'll never get his name right -- phonetically, Lek Walensa), or even people following Gandhi in India.

****Want to Help America Recount? The website is UP!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1344801
Link: www.helpamericarecount.org
National Ballot Integrity Project http://www.ballotintegrity.org/

***** Donations for the Recount" Fundraising Kit > > >
(Use this to send to your friends -- enormous amount of info -- pick and choose what you need)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x37833


BACKGROUND:
DU INFO ALERT: Why Recounting in New Hampshire Could Save Democracy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617155

Need Some DU Help w/New Hampshire Stuff!!! (URGENT)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=26802&mesg_id=26802

RALPH NADER MAY SAVE THE WORLD!!! (Its NOT Over in NH!) Updated Fri 8:15p
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x25116

Nader requests NH vote recount. (Did we just make a huge blunder?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=965216

Nader, Cobb and Badnarik may all be willing to look into recounts in Ohio
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x26843

To collect info and promote a case like this is a very democratic act, Eloriel.

I'll post the links to your VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium to a couple of other boards.

Keep up the good work.

Appreciated. (Just make sure the other boards aren't crawling with freepers. :evilgrin: )

No freepers, but then - how would one know?

Got this, by the way?
It's an editorial in the NYT that mantions the possibility for fraud:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/14/opinion/14sun1.html?oref=login

"There have been a flood of reports, rumors and theories over the last 12 days about problems with the presidential election. The blogosphere, in particular, has been full of questions: Why did electronic voting machines in Ohio add nearly 4,000 phantom votes for President Bush, and why did machines in Florida mysteriously start to count backward? Why did the official vote totals for Ohio's largest county seem to suggest that there were more votes cast than registered voters? Why did election officials in yet another part of Ohio lock down the building where votes were being counted, turning away the press and public?

Defenders of the system have been quick to dismiss questions like these as the work of "conspiracy theorists," but that misses the point. Until our election system is improved - with better mechanics and greater transparency - we cannot expect voters to have full confidence in the announced results."

I find a lot of people that didn't understand the reason for the recount. This clears it up nicely. :)

:kick:

Eloriel rocks!

good links

It won't go away, not ever.

I won't let it.

:)

that need done - pick the type, time, complexity of your effort.

Packed full of compelling information!

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...