So my dad asks me who I voted for (he's Bush, but we never talk about it).

My dad recently brought up politics for the first time in a while. I always avoid it, as I know he became a big-time "Clinton-hater" in the 90s and is now a Bush supporter. He must know how I feel as well, as he's read some things I'd written some time ago regarding politics.

I generally avoid political discussions with him, because in my mind, family trumps politics. I'm never gonna convince him, I only see him once every several weeks to months, and he's in his mid-70s. Why let our last few years together devolve into a big political argument?

Anyway, he tells me he's "polling" the kids to see who they voted for: both my brothers, he thinks, went Bush (I don't even think they wanted to give him an answer). My sister went Kerry (again, he thinks) saying something about how "most university people" do. Oh, that could have touched me off on a rant! But I resisted.

At first I didn't say who I voted for, but then I told him "Dad, I think you know what my politics are.... yeah, I voted for Kerry."

I quickly diverted the discussion to the peace-making offer that "both sides got really nasty" (though I really don't think Kerry did) and "the world isn't going to end no matter who gets elected" (though I have my doubts about Bush).

He couldn't rest without saying "yeah, but the nastiness came especially from the Democrats". I was bordering on apoplectic, but I decided to leave it at "Come on, Dad, they were both bad." I could have ranted for an hour here about how, before Kerry, he probably would have skewered anyone who DARED attack the war credentials of anyone who volunteered for service, earned 3 Purple Hearts, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. Instead, I went on to something else, and he dropped it.

But it's got me wondering now if he'll start bugging me about "How could I vote for Kerry?!" and "Don't you think Bush has done a great job fighting terror?" Now that he's broached politics, I worry every time I visit, he'll try to get into a "discussion". A complicating factor is that, although my wife agrees with my politics, talking about it really wears on her (she's got enough to deal with). That's probably the main reason I post here. If I started to get into "discussions" with my dad, my wife & kids would probably never want to visit my parents again. If it was just me, however...

Anyway, the episode has just been bugging me, and I wanted to vent. Is anyone else in a similar situation with their parents?

Kudos to you for taking the high road with the old man. I only have to worry about my cousin when it comes to this stuff. Mom and Dad are life long liberals. Good luck.

How two Republican's could rear 6 Democrats is way beyond me. My sister finally told our mom that she was sure there were a lot of good republicans, that she was sure mom was a good republican but please keep her opinions to herself and stop gloating. Thanksgiving will be interesting, especially when it comes to the time, around the dining room table, when everyone is asked to name one thing they are thankful for!!

... my Dad's.

I'm going to my sister-in-law's. The interesting thing is this: she used to be a staunch born-again Christian Republican. Lately, though, she had started to open her eyes, thanks to discussions with my wife. (I can also talk to my siblings somewhat about politics, even when I disagree).

Anyway, she actually was excited about Kerry early on, which is one reason I was so optimistic about his chances. If a southern, born-again, Repub could get excited about Kerry, then... Then she was REALLY excited about Edwards.

But alas, in the end, she voted bush. She just "wasn't sure" about Kerry.

I think this is a textbook case of why Bush won (fraud possibilities aside). People who were on the fence were simply scared. We underestimated that fear. And the early tarnishing of Kerry as a waffler really stuck as an image. I believe Kerry's main misstep was waiting too long to take this on. He should have done so IMMEDIATELY, and FORCEFULLY... I mean, the FIRST day the "$87B" ad ran.

But generally, people were scared, and being uninformed and swayed by (false) ads was enough.

So I'm really not sure how that's going to go at Thanksgiving. But it's another awkward dimension.

the others feelings,the time is very enjoyable. Besides dealing with the state of this governing party now is not a pleasant subject for anyone.

My mother started going off about Dems and that's the last I've talked to her. Personally, I could't care less.

my parents are both republicans, my inlaws are as well..I have some maturing to do (not quite young enough to use that as an excuse) and have really just lost it with each and everyone one of my family members and inlaws.. I actually asked my doctor to prescribe me something to help me deal with my "frustration".. I am also trying to anticipate and visualize confrontations in advance and picture myself not reacting... this really works for me..

he voted for Kerry! And he's a born-again Christian and a registered Republican. And my Republican grandfather also voted for Kerry, because "Bush is a nut."

But in past years, I've experienced what you are experiencing! Good luck!

I do recommend being especially nice to the elderly, however. :-)

Kerry or bush, we all agreed Bush was a bad guy, but how fast this cold civil war will go hot

I say it is closer than most believe, and I have also said I lost complete and all trust or faith in any way, shape or form in courts or the gov'ment and that now it is up to me

My brother in law still has some shred of belief in the political or legal system... so my take is, don't even discuss this anymore

If I am right we will be in a hot civil war sooner than people think, for we are in the midst of a cold one, and usually cold ones precede a hot one... and the mood in the country is very similar to that of 1860... and that divide is that wide.

When I have dealings with my Dad over politics it usually turns into a fight so we try to steer clear of it. I have a hard time though b/c when I am at their place and we are watching the news any story that showed Kerry speaking and my dad would start to mumble "that stupid asshole" and stuff like that.

Now he would do this even knowing that I was an attorney and worked for the Kerry campaign! I tried so hard to keep quiet, but it was the swiftboat thing that set off the biggest fight in the house since I was a teenager. My dad was going on about Kerry the coward and making up medals and stuff and I went into a rage! I started cursing at the swiftboat guys calling them swiftboat scum and how I wish I could have sunk their boats with them still onboard and stuff and it was like the 4th of July.

Just this past week my Dad had bought some kind of sticky thing for the cars. I have seen them all over the area. Some say "support a cure", this one said "support the troops". Now I do support the troops. I support them getting the hell out of there so they stop dying. I do not support the mission and when I see things that say "support the troops" I can not help but think that also implies that I have to support the mission and also that bum Bush.

So I come downstairs and when I go to put some things in my trunk I see the "support the troops" on the back of the car. Well number 1 I dont live there and number 2 thats MY car so I took it off and threw it out. When my dad saw that he went into a rage, calling me disloyal and stuff. I decided to not have a fight so I said its my car not yours, if you want to put it on your car go ahead but stay off my stuff.

anyway I feel good to let this out!

is very similar. He thinks the War is for the greater good of the Iraqi's and we are truly trying to bring security and democracy to the middle east.

My father and I will never see eye to eye on the Republican Agenda.

He still thinks they support the working man....ugh.

I feel your pain.

Unless it's to support the working man's racism, sexism, and homophobia.

first, my dad wrote me & said kerry wasn't this, kerry wasn't that.

then, i lost it, wrote back & called bush a fucking Ass Clown. which he is. i used the word "fuck" repeatedly. it was pretty mild compared to the size of the fuck up bush is. i sent it off.

i got this back:

"you were right when you said "i don't think we should talk about this, at least for a couple of months". you should have stopped there instead of going on the way you did. your response was not worthy of you in language or tone, and we were shocked.
we have not responded to this for a week, because it has taken us a week to try to get over you vitriolic response.
we were trying to be, and i thought were, objective, when commenting about why bush won the election, and kerry did not.

kerry was not the right candidate for the democratic party. perhaps if the democrats had put up a candidate that was more acceptable to a majority of the american people that candidate would have won. we felt that way the whole campaign."

fine, kerry wasn't mahatma ghandi, but they still chose the subnormal sociopath. IN OHIO. i really don't know how to talk to them till i calm down, but, if anything, i'm MORE angry today than nov. 3rd. VITRIOLIC? SHOCKED? NOT WORTHY? i've always been like that, i'm 41 and i'm not likely to change. they know it.

and they're not old enough yet (68, 65) for me to pull punches.

tomorrow is their last day, they have been going to this school for 6 years. big deal in our immediate family. havent told brothers, father or there other grandparents. they wont get why. it is a fundie school, and has actually turned boys off of bible and religion. my oldest, the sweetest of spirit told me today, he cant do bible since nov 2. he listens to the people and then they quote the bible, and he wont do it. he is genius straight a flunking bible.

my people dont get it either

He told me that he didn't want to "rub it in" the day after the election that my guy lost. I laughed and told him not to worry, I will be rubbing it in for the next 4 years that he voted for the idiot that will be destroying our nation and waging war for the sake of war. My bumper sticker says "Don't Blame Me, I Voted Blue!"

man, reading these posts is an emotional experience in itself.

Almost all of my big Catholic family voted Repuke (in Ohio) and if I head "home" for the holidays I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut. But when I read about the latest war crimes in Iraq I just wanted to e-mail the links to all my brain-dead sibs.

My Kerry sticker stays on my car until 2008. If any of them start in on it, they'll have a fight on their hands.

along with my "Don't Blame Me, I Voted Blue" and the "Who would Jesus Bomb" sticker.

Funny thing is, before this election, I never, ever put bumper stickers on my car.

My family knows not to start things over the holidays, I have always been the outspoken, opinionated one and they have had a hard time in the past countering my arguments.

Politics will not be discussed with my kool aide drinking family members over the holidays.

Always have been and always will be. My dad is so depressed since the chimp "won" he doesn't even want to talk about politics and that isn't like my dad. He has always been heavily involved with the Democratic Party and with politics in general. We talk at least once a week on this subject. I am leaving him alone for awhile. He'll rebound, of that I am sure. Sorry about your family situation.

bad" reply? Especially when you know it's not true? It's your family and your restraint is admirable, but don't let restraint become collusion. If it is as you say going to continue it's best to stick to your guns and be as unemotional (HUH!) as possible. Don't give an inch!!

bush*co's campaign was downright DISGUSTING and that should NOT be deflected onto Kerry's campaign ever.


Keep fighting the good fight!

... other", I had hoped to get some agreement and find some common ground. I have tried (with some success) to get repubs to at least see that campaigns have gotten too personal and too nasty. Fine if they think "Dems do it too", but at least it might get them to question what basically has become the sole campaign tactic of the Republican Party. That might get them to sidestep some of that and look more at issues. It really doesn't matter if i give an inch that Dems might do it too. They already believe that.

Unfortunately, all my dad responded was "Especially the Democrats". I knew then it wasn't worth pursuing further.

But since "all my dad responded was 'Especially the Democrats'", wouldn't have been better to take your REAL stance that the repukes were out of control and have his response been to be trying to knock that down? Since we both know there is no defense to that, your opportuinity may still have been there AND you'd be in a far stronger position for him to see his evil ways by him having to DEFEND the indefensible?

It's tough either way, as a fellow DUer, I do not envy your battle but am prepared to offer support anyway.

stop patronizing him and tell him what you really think. Insist he have and informed an civil conversation with you as long as he wants to bring it up. Give him the information he needs to be better informed. He he brushes you off then tell him not to raise the subject again if he can't discuss it civily with you. Do it with love. He is old not dead. Have enough respect for him to treat him like any other adult you would talk to.

... time we may have left. Plus my family would never want to visit him and my mom again if we got into it.

Like I say, family trumps politics.

He is an adult, talk to him like an adult. You may be surprised at the reception you get.

"when it comes to politics. do me a favor, dont bring it up again, it lowers my opinion of you and I dont like that"

I don't understand how ANYONE could say that to there father over politics. It shows no respect at all for a parent and IMO should not be said to anyone unless they have basicly said "your a moran" or something.

My 70 plus parents live in Oceanside and both old style Republicans. My father is or was the president of the Oceanside Republican Men's Club and my mother phone banked for them this year.
We have had short, but heated, discussions in the past and now try to avoid them. However, shortly before the election my mother had to leave a conversation with me on the phone to watch Bush speaking somewhere on tv. I asked her why she would want to waste her time he wasn't going to say anything new or truthful. She replied that he was a "strong leader" and I noted he was the president of the worst administration in my 47 years on the planet. I was going to ask her the one question I ask of all my Republican friends (Tell me one thing he has done for the country as a whole) and follow up with what has he done to qualify as a "strong leader" when she hung up.
Christmas should be fun.

I probably would have had a similar converstation with one of my brainwashed republican family members if I was talking to them. But I'm not. I'm no longer talking to Republican acquaintances or co-workers either. And I won't. They make me sick and I can't stomach it. My life is better when it is Republican free.

But neither of my parents voted for Bush, so it's easier for me. I feel for you, it must be very, very frustrating.

Really has made life pretty simple. No illusions about an inheritance, but a high degree of self-possession.

Gyre

that voted for Bush.

My family has certainly had its share of issues over the years..but NOT A ONE voted for the boy king.

approach w/ my mom but we still ended up getting emotional (at least I did). She came down hard on Kerry by spewing all the right wing bs;I allowed her to do so. But when I started to discuss how this administration is going to affect future progeny I got upset.