How to hurt the economy this holiday season

I'm sorry but I really hope the economy sucks for the next four years so people will finally realize that repub policies don't work. Here is my plan for starters. If every Dem chooses not to buy a Christmas present for every republican that they would normaly buy for, we can hurt the retailers hard this holiday season. If this is too brash for you, cut your normal present budget in half or buy locally. Don't buy from any chains that supported Bush.

I turned my cable off after the election and I feel somewhat liberated from the whore press.

And the economy hurts me.

obviously I don't want people to be out of work or suffer because of the economy but I want there to be no question, now that they will have controlled every branch for 8 years, that it is all on them. Good luck with getting a job.

and take money out of republican pockets.

The republicans are going to destroy the economy all by themselves - and we can make sure that they don't get any of our money while at the same time strengthening an alternative progressive economy.

I know everyone has a good reason, but I have to hear what has kept you out of work for 53 MONTHS ??????????????????????????????


No Jobs?????????????????????????? You might consider changing your vocation !

and won't help the economy much. How about home made cards. And of course this is the "true" meaning of the holiday, isn't it?

n/t

I make tons of cookies and give them away.

I only buy presents for immediate family. And I give to some charities.

It won't change things here.

:bounce: And I don't hope the economy sucks for the next 4 yrs. A lot of good people will be hurt by that and I don't want to see that happen just so some ignorant "value voters" wake up. As far as holiday shopping goes, I don't usually spend much and this year I have even less to spend. Thanks Chimpy!

sure frugal spending hurts people's pockets, but this machine hurts people every day. the choice for me is easy. but follow your heart, k? :D

besides, just because you know people who work doesn't mean they cannot act to do either 1. work in another country 2. work ehough to keep those they care about economically viable (aka. more local biz shopping) 3. save a penny for a rainy day, never a bad idea (for my forecast predicts a few showers on the horizon).

it's not an all or nothing thing, it's a nuanced thing. bring the beast down! spare the lamb! (notice the nuanced sloganeering.)

support Dems and I do that, ie Costco et al. I don't want average Americans to hurt is all I am saying especially if they are Dems. Maybe I should have made myself clearer on this.

You can make presents, or donate in someone's name, or fix up and give away some of your old stuff.

No sense giving these damn companies any money. They follow the money EVERY TIME even against the best interests of America. We need to force monetary consequenses on them for them to realize anything.

... I prefer to view it in terms of protecting ourselves financially. I'm very worried that this economy is going to tumble still lower no matter what we do.

It's definitely a good time to start saving for a rainy day. Chip away at those credit card balances, save a bit more in your nest egg. Little or no debt and a bit of money in the bank, for me, is peace of mind.

And then the other things follow naturally, such as not supporting repug businesses, while re-connecting with the things that matter. Homemade cookies for Christmas? Yum! Good for the giver, and GREAT to receive!

A simpler life is a richer life.

That isn't a problem for me. The repukes I know are not people I associate with or would be buying gifts for. I am, however, doing some local research on which repuke businesses contributed to Shrub and his evil cabal and avoiding patronizing those establishments. I'm also very observant of company trucks, vans, etc. that have any repuke stickers on them. I saw one on a Direct TV van (probably placed by some installation technician without thinking). I called Direct TV and told them I would never be purchasing any services from them because either they condone this endorsement at a corporate level or lack sufficient employee standards to make sure employees don't place personal political endorsements on corporate property. The person on the phone apologized profusely. I was able to give her the truck ID# and the approximate date/time when I saw it on the highway.

that's the way to get things accomplished.

That would explain the Republican bumper sticker. I saw one in Michigan on an SBC truck. I was going to call and complain but never did.

Dems have jobs too, including myself.

we boycott the malls. The endless war in Iraq coupled with the tax breaks for the wealthy are doing all the damage you could hope for, and he has nobody to blame but himself.

You can download fake $$ to put into there kettles (sp?).

http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/kettlevoucher.pdf

After this election I will not be giving money to any organization that is founded on a religon and/or is anti-gay. That includes the boyscouts (I usually give to the boy that lives next door, this year I'll give him money to go to summer camp).

I hope that all dems get their jobs back and only stocks that dems own go up, meanwhile the economy continues to struggle and only corporations that contribute to Bush suffer. There, is everyone happy in fantasyland.

very sound bite-y, people figure out what you mean real fast this way. it's also delightfully nebulous so as to mean whatever a person wants to believe, to whatever degree. :D

I think I would like to live by that motto.

We may be enduring massive boycotts of American products overseas before long:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=255&topic_id=411&mesg_id=411

or into the Walton family pockets. Either way, it does nothing for the economy.

I am an American first, a Democrat second.

the 'war economy' or the 'peace economy'? one is being used to commit war crimes, another wants to heal the wounds from this madness. the lines are being drawn, you have no choice but to take a stand -- and it wasn't 'the left' that drew the line in the sand, half of america abandoned *you*.

ps: 'no choice' is a de facto 'war economy' choice, there's nowhere to hide now.

this holiday season. And presents for republicans? You're kidding, right?

I made my husband a beautiful blanket.

Good for the health of the planet.

We're the Democrats ... the Grinches Who Want to Steal Christmas. Got any other brilliant suggestions?

We're the Democrats. We're mad and we're not going to take it anymore. So let's cancel Christmas and ruin the economy. Gee, that's a wonderful way to win friends and influence people.

but only by being very careful.

My advice to you is to either out yourself or go back to being very careful again.

If you've got something to say about the original post in this thread, say it. Sarcasm doesn't add much.

The original post is juvenile, idiotic, outrageous and incredibly unappealing. It makes me want to whack someone upside the head with a 2-by-4. Why? Because most people, myself among them, rather like our Christmases. We spend them with our families, and we exchange gifts. Yup, the cheesier the better too. Believe it or not, some of us sit around and listen to "Jingle Bell Rock," put foam rubber antlers on the dog and tickle our kids until they want to die laughing in front of the tree we all decorated together. And we'll take videos like the ones our parents took of us, and 25 years from now we'll sit around and laugh at how dumb we all were as the grandkids crawl around the floor. Oh and most of us don't want the economy to fall into the tank, either, because it would interfere with our ability to support ourselves and our families, enjoy our lives and build for the future.

Along those lines, I think that someone who wants to "boycott Christmas" for the purpose of sabotaging the economy, and who proposes this as a political strategy, has such a political death wish that I wonder if that person might be a provacateur from the other side who would like to make Democrats look like a pack of bitter, joyless, warped fools. Who the hell does the original poster represent? The guys who run the methamphetamine lab out on the edge of town, for chrissakes?

Now, is this a sufficiently direct comment on the insanely stupid original post? I had used sarcasm in hopes of lightening the tone, but apparently you didn't like that so I have to give you the message with both barrels. It's an over-and-under 12-gauge, and this Democrat knows how to fire one on-line and off-line. Frankly, as I look through this thread I am wondering whether the original posting and most of the replies were parodies. God help us if everyone else has been serious about what they were writing because they we've got a real problem, i.e., "Democrats vs. Christmas." Guess what? In that contest, the Democrats lose in a landslide. Even with me, and that my friend takes some doing.

I don't know how long you've been around DU, but we've been talking about "starving the beast" for a few weeks now, and the original discussions didn't even center around Christmas.

Personally I don't ever blow a wad of cash at Christmas. We tend to live frugally, below our means, anyway.

But it sure as hell makes even MORE sense now that * has been reselected and the economy is definitely NOT going to get better, but only worse.

Increased consumer spending is only a band aid anyway and a sloppy one at that.

American's rates of savings are ATROCIOUS and it might do us ALL a bit of good to put money back instead of spending it on the newest this or that crap.

Now you go on ahead and do Christmas how you want, I'm a big believer in doing Christmas your way as long as it doesn't hurt others or anything.

But we are carrying out a boycott of a lot of business and are keeping as many of our dollars as we can out of the economy. Why flush our money down the crapper?

I'm not boycotting Christmas because like I said, we hardly spend any money on Christmas anyway (there's only the three of us to buy for). I fully enjoy Christmas.

But hard core frugality is back in my life, and with a vengeance. That's a personal decision a lot of us here have made.

... was Jimmy Carter and he got his ass kicked up one side of the block and down the other. Watch your pennies, and you'll never get an argument from me but here's hoping the Democratic Party is never, ever stupid enough to even HINT at the idea that they'd want to sabotage Christmas to ruin the economy. That, my frugal friend, is a one-way ticket to an oblivion that would make Ralph Nader look like the newly crowned king of Texas by comparison.

Do you think the people talking here ARE the Democratic National Committee? We are Democrats true (but I am starting to wonder about you, despite all your posturing in another thread....watch out, your mask is slipping), but we AREN'T the ones in charge, so you can drop all that "oooo the Democrats better not try this shit" crap.

The person who started this thread is ONE guy voicing his opinion on ONE website.

Yeah I'll go on being frugal and even MORE now than ever. What Democrat is RUNNING right now anyway? Have you noticed the election is over? (You said "the last Democrat to run on frugality" and then you had comments about Nader winning....hello? Election over!)

Ooops, there it was, I saw your real face again.

It's getting to be a struggle, isn't it?

You celebrate your frugal Christmas the way you see fit. It's a free country, after all, and may it ever be thus. But do me a favor and don't insinuate than I'm a wingnut in disguise because I like it the old fashioned way and would prefer that people be employed and making money?

I'd prefer that people be employed and making money. I'd also prefer that every parent with a sick kid had health insurance and could take that kid to the doctor. I'd also prefer it if people weren't watching their jobs disappear and having to live on their savings. I'd also prefer not to see Social Security privatized.

But it looks like none of those things are going to be prevented or helped now.

A big part of what I am doing now is specifically supporting businesses that support Democrats and/or progressive organizations.

Why give my money to a republican owned company if I can help it?

There are plenty of companies not owned by Republicans. You don't have to skip Christmas.

seems like you didn't read the posts. buck up and admit it, because this segue is telling.

Yes most of my original post was parody and the smart ones here can understand that. After reading your shotgun comments I am convinced you are a freeper. If you are not, you certainly did not read all of my posts. Let me clarify for you once again before you go on your violent rampage. I want Bush held accountable for this miserable economy. I do not want to put money in the hands of anybody that helped elect him. As far as Christmas, that is a personal choice. Many DUers had excellent ideas that would put money towards charity or alternative present choices that would be thoughtful but at the same time hurt Wal-Mart.

As far as your warm and fuzzy Christmas. I am glad you take such pleasure in the commercial aspects of the holiday. I for one am not feeling too joyful this holiday and yes I am bitter. The world has suffered at the hands of Bush and will continue to for many, many years to come. I apologize to anyone that thought I wanted the economy to hurt them. However, I feel it is only through the utter failure of the economy that people will wake up and vote dem. Bush was able to spin the tech bubble, and 911 to explain the faltering economy. He will not be able to play that card again.

To my angry friend. Dems are smarter than repubs, thats what makes us liberal in the first place. I shouldn't have to spell everything out. People here get that you can effect change without weakening the party. You can make small decisions every day to help the cause. Also, I am the last person who wants to see people suffer. Therefore, everyone have a wonderful Christmas and I am confident that people will choose to show their disgust for this president how they please. This was not supposed to be a referendum. You can still put rubber antlers on your dog. Just put the shotgun up before you have one too many eggnogs and mistake him for a real dear.

Those last lines were priceless.

If you're as "smart" as you think you are, you wouldn't yell "Freeper" every time someone calls you on the carpet.

Now, as for the commercial aspects of Christmas, I guess if buying gifts and taking pictures is commercial then I plead guilty, guilty, guilty! With no apologies whatsoever to you or anyone else. And I'm so, so sorry for not spending Dec. 25th at a political rally thinking deep thoughts. How retro of me. Boy, if celebrating Christmas the way that 200 million other Americans do is something to go on the defensive about, I'd say the problem is not mine.

Besides, foam antlers on the dog are cute. The kids go nuts for them. Then -- dare I say this for fear of introducing the idea of "too much fun" to the self-denial wing of the Democratic Party -- the kids have been known to grab the antlers off the dog and run around the house, barking and being chased by the dog who is also barking. This causes me to make up new words to "Jingle Bells," and pretty soon an ornament or two gets broken and the dog gets so excited he pisses on the kitchen floor. It all makes for a great video.

Far be it for me to interfere with your sober, some might say somber, Christmas. It doesn't sound too fun by my reckoning but I'm sure my holidays sound unbearable to you. Each to their own, really and truly. But please do the Democratic Party a favor and don't associate the party with your wish that we cancel our holidays so we can kill the economy. Even in jest, that dog don't hunt. I've seen a lot of dumb things on the Internet, but that one takes the cake.

Because if you want to talk about dumb, then I can tell you I've seen right wingers talking about killing every Iraqi and having fun talking about it! "If it lives in the sand, kill it!" they say. Not only dumb but vicious!

As for you, who the hell said Christmas can only be fun if you do it up all commercially and spend a lot of money? Sounds like YOU'VE got the problem. We have a fantastic, VERY fun Christmas and we don't even spend that much money. It's sad that you think you have to spend money just to have a fun Christmas.

Seriously the more you talk the more you sound like a republican. (Apologizing in a smart ass way that you don't spend Christmas thinking deep thoughts at a political rally? Seriously, you aren't even TRYING to disguise yourself!) And you never answered my question: who did you vote for on November 2nd and why?

It's your dog that isn't hunting. Don't you know we can SMELL you right through the internet? It's your words and attitude that give you away right off the bat.

Again, who'd you vote for and why?

... but three do? Come on, Moonbeam, the fact that there are rightwingnut assholes doesn't justify a lamebrain scheme, even if it's satirical, to ruin the economy by doing away with your Christmas celebration. I'd say if anyone is the "closet Freeper" here, the one who offered that scheme is it.

Who did I vote for on Nov. 2? Let's see, at the top of the ticket it was Kerry-Edwards. For senator it was Patty Murray. For congressman it was Jim McDermott. For governor it was Christine Gregoire. Beyond that, I don't remember. I voted for these people because I'm a Democrat, and Democrats care about the people who make this country work. If they stop doing that, then I will stop voting for them. At least some of them care, other than those who want to find ways to make the economy go into the tank so we can all be out of work and unable to feed our families and provide for the future.

And nope, on Dec. 25th there's no politics in my house. Politics is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. Who says we spend "a lot of money?" I never said that. You simply assumed it. And I find your attitude, frankly, to be snotty and condescending. You seem to think that you have some right to be abusive, but the minute you're called on it then you adopt the pose of a terribly hurt victim of a Freeper meanie. If you don't want to believe I gave to and worked like crazy for Kerry-Edwards, then F you there's not a lot to say to you.

p.s.: I drive a Ford Explorer, too. Bet it really chaps your ass. I'll think of you the next time I gun it at a stop sign. Sheesh.

that just give you the hell away.

Plus your attitude has sucked since you showed up here.

And hey, (LOL) don't worry about a few Dems on the internet talking about fucking up the economy. We're only helping georgie-porgie puddin' pie in what he has been doing and will continue to do, but as you can see, he doesn't really need much help in fucking up the economy, now does he?

You are angry at the wrong people, that's also giving you away. WE aren't the ones fucking up the economy, Commander Fulldiaper is. But somehow you don't seem to be too bothered by that.

Why is that?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

first of all I certainly was NOT in diapers in the late 70s so you can CAN that bullshit. Stop making assumptions, the very thing you said to me.

Don't take this site so seriously and you'll have a better (albeit it looks like short) stay.

If you really are a Democrat, stop spouting republican talking points.

THAT'S what's pissing people off about you but you don't even see it.

Or do you?

On edit: I am STILL boycotting republican businesses and STILL Not spending much money this Christmas. Excuse the hell out of me if I'd like to build up my savings and think about my family. You took this ENTIRE thread wrong and that's your own damn fault.

A really stupid thing to hope for.

Personally I hope the economy does great so I am able to afford to give more to others.

things republican.

Our family's wages haven't kept up with the increasing costs of fuel, food and health care. Where's this economic recovery that I've been hearing about.

It's Herbert Hoover repeated.

We are each providing a list of nonprofits that we would like to support and then we will donate to them in each other;s name. My choices are Greenpeace, ACLU, Emily's List, and Amnesty International. We will also resist feeding the corporate beast by buying gifts of animals and seedlings and donating them to poor families in Third World countries in order to help provide them with a source of income. If any of you are interested, go to www.heifer.org for more information.

Bush has hurt so many unfortunate people that we should reach out to them and at the same time withhold from corporate giants. We plan on adopting a family. I have asked my repub family members to help out in leiu of giving each other gifts. That way I can actually get them to take part in the starving the beast campaign and they don't even know it.

I have to have some compassion for the unemployed. I have been there. Company downsized but I finally retrained and entered a different profession. If the economy is doing poor that means people will be struggling to make house and car payments. Struggling to feed families. I don't want children to be hungry. I hope the economy booms. I want jobs for everyone and a chance to own their own homes. Kids need to feel secure and know that they have food and a place to live.

Your profile says "arts & crafts"--isn't something handmade by a local artist a good present?

Most people here aren't calling for canceling the holiday, just focusing spending. Making gifts, buying from local artists, contributing to causes are alternatives to crowding into the malls. (How many retail clerks manage to buy homes on their salary alone?)

And even the purest among us (if they happen to be parents) will probably make at least one trip to someplace commercial. Organic carob balls & that new Noam Chomsky action figure just won't cut it.

You are right. I enjoy making many of the gifts I give out at Christmas. I make quilts and also handmade dolls. I don't think canceling Christmas over loosing the election will make a difference to anyone. I am more of a hot chocolate & Bing Crosby Christmas kind of person. I didn't mean to come across as a commercial kind of Christmas nut job.


"Organic carob balls & that new Noam Chomsky action figure just won't cut it."

OMG stop it!!! you killing me!!! LOL

Nice to meet you...

LOL

lol :-)

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Newbie here... Looking forward to meeting some like minded people.

I bid room additions and remodeling for homeowners. Prices are as follows:

-Regular price (regular folks get a square deal)
-Republican price (the ignorant ones)
-Neocon price (the greedy ones)

At first I considered not working for the enemy, but this is effective warfare and allows my business to continue.

Like with me, how would you know I was a liberal Democrat (the stickers on my van in the driveway might give me away, LOL! But besides that?)?

Liberals don't mind talking about issues that matter.

i'm going to ask that no one buy any for me in return.

how effective our actions really are.

Example: I could stop buying fuel and help the environment a little, but it would destroy what little financial clout I have and my family would soon go without the bare necessities.

I think we need to chip away at this problem by making choices that have economic influence but do not unnecessarily increase our own suffering. We will never quite reach the ideal, but consumer market influence is both real and powerful.

Example: Shop at Costco rather than Samsclub... vote with your checkbook.

Of course if you don't like Christmas, that's another matter entirely. ;-)

I told here nothing. I'm not spending a bunch of money to make the Chimp look good.

These are the top retail stores who have donated to the last presidential campaign.

First number is total donation. Second figure is percent donated to Democrats; 3rd number is % donated to Repukes. Personally, I'm gonna be buying books, bath towels and anything Costco sells.

1
Wal-Mart Stores
$1,875,557
19%
81%

2
Home Depot
$677,370
6%
94%

3
National Assn of Convenience Stores
$474,972
17%
83%

4
Target Corp
$289,763
28%
72%

5
Sears, Roebuck & Co
$265,444
24%
76%

6
Limited Brands
$255,620
29%
71%

7
Amway/Alticor Inc
$238,288
0%
100%

8
Gap Inc
$237,085
61%
38%

9
Costco Companies
$200,303
98%
2%

10
Walgreen Co
$126,961
47%
53%

11
Saks Inc
$116,600
5%
95%

12
Circuit City Stores
$116,550
3%
97%

13
National Assn of Chain Drug Stores
$115,350
27%
73%

14
Staples Inc
$111,475
42%
58%

15
May Department Stores
$103,750
10%
89%

16
Barnes & Noble
$103,350
98%
2%

17
JC Penney Co
$99,565
18%
81%

18
National Retail Federation
$93,450
10%
88%

19
Bed Bath & Beyond
$82,500
93%
7%

20
Wax Co
$77,000
0%
100%

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=N03

I'm glad to know about Costco. A while back I stopped shopping at Sam's Club and switched to Costco on account of Sam's being a part of Wal-Mart. Also good to know about Barnes & Noble. Now I can feel even better about the B&N gift cards I give to the kids at Christmas.

used to be people said to buy american - 20 years ago - with cars
and then manufacturing

now most everything is made eslewhere -

everything you pick up says made somewhere else -
some have removed that designation -

wish there were a way to affect real change without hurting the little people

Not having one here at all.

None of my employers can afford me again till after the first of the year.

To drive the economy into the toilet.

And I'm not using an American airline company to get there. How's that for doing my best. Will have shut our heat down to the min for two weeks to deprive the utlility company. The only money I wlll spend in America during the two weeks we are in France is the parking for our car at the airport.

I think I'm doing my job.

in Dublin. The gifts that I buy will be purchased in Dem. supporting businesses. New Years resolution: No More In-direct Funding of GOP Supporting Businesses. I've already started and it feels goooooooood.

M.

Let's examine what we can do to help the economy instead. The people suffering aren't just Bush voters, and even if they were, so what? I vote for the democrars because they seem to care more about regular people than the gop, I'm not going to stop caring myself and punish poor people just to fuck over Bush, too sick for me.

The OP makes it easy for Repukes to hang the "Democrats think what's good for the country is bad for their Party" meme on us.

I'll not ever wish for a terrible economy, no matter who is occupying the office of President.

We've got a few Democrats who seem to love "The People" but who might be a little deficient when it comes to people.

HELPS poor people. Most of the big repug corporations are outsourcing our jobs. If we reward only those that are responsible, we help the working person in the long run.

Keeping * in power sure as hell ain't helping anyone but the uber rich!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

Either it all comes down under this prick or he wins. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

but I don't have the time:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

Here's the email I sent:

Dear Friends and Family,

Well, the Christmas season is almost upon us, and in light of the
recent election and everything else going on in our country, I've
decided that I really have no interest in propping up big business
with my hard-earned dollars. I also don't want you to be contributing
to the coffers of global corporations that have no regard for our best
interests in order to buy things for me.

Therefore, I hope you will honor my request to make this a gift-free
Christmas between us. I have everything I need and I'm betting you do,
too.

My gift for you this Christmas season is to offer you more time for
the spirit of the season and less time in the shopping mall.

I would love to see you over the holiday season and hope we can offer
each other the gift of time.

Love you,

Janesez

:-)

My uncle and his partner, who are moving to Vancouver, thanked me profusely for this idea and are doing it themselves. My best friend laughed and said she was going to send the same thing to me.

It was wonderful. There are no small children in our family and we all have everything we need.

Who are you, again?

p.s.: And no, I'm not a "Freeper" or a Republican, or a witch. :-)

p.p.s.: If I sent that letter to my family -- all but one of whom is a Democrat, the one having been dropped on his head at an early age -- they'd call someone and have me locked up in a rubber room somewhere. But hey, different strokes.

and if you haven't already joined us...http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=255

Random House books from Barnes and Noble.
Clothing from http://nosweatapparel.com/

I'm working to shift my shopping habits. I was already at Costco, already boycotting Walmart, already didn't drink coke or pepsi, and don't smoke, so those are non issues for me.

I switched from my regular grocery store to the Whole Foods Market in the week following the election.

This week I switched from whatever gas station I'm at when I realize I should fill up to the Shell station on my way to work.

Other than the fact that it will kill you, that is?

In addition to the usual killing yourself, you're also forking over all that money to the republicann donors. 72% of donations from tobacco employees go to rebublicans, 28% to democrats.

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=A02

it enraged the suits when we boycotted consumerism. People took pride in driving old vw buses, ripped jeans, and getting plastered on $2 a bottle Annie Greensprings wine. Under the republican rage was real fear that we would all drop out of their game. We need to do this again and will probably have to anyway. Did anyone notice the stock market today and the plunge of the dollar and the cost of oil? Not pretty.

My boycott is on the square.

My reasons, other than being simply poor, that is.

Every dollar spent goes into the same big basket, whether it is spent in a red or a blue state, a republican or a democrat owned business. Every dollar spent fuels the big machine of the american economy, within which we all live, again, republicans and democrats. If we all work and spend, the machine goes full steam and everybody generally does well, with only small differences resulting from the policies of whoever is president. Throwing a monkey wrench into the works would seem to be irresponsible, spiteful and self-defeating.

But then again...what does this machine do? Those bombs raining on Iraq - who built them, who paid for them? Those youngsters raised to love their country - who trained them to destroy and kill? What country has the largest prison population? What country no longer gives a damn about human rights anywhere, and has lowered the bar for the benefit of criminals-in-charge everywhere in the world?

Forgive me if I don't feel Christmassy this year, and am willing to see the rest of this country feel the same. Perhaps I am not a patriot anymore, but something has to change and I don't see any other way. How many Fallujas can we see, and still celebrate? How much must the rest of the world suffer before we will accept some inconvenience ourselves?

It's on it's way down. GW is screwing it up enough by himself.

I have heard that Venezuela's most direct outlet here for petrol sales was CITGO, but others have implied that CITGO is a grab-bag of US oiligarchs. Anyone know the real facts?

primarily to the Rethugs... Like Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Darden Restaurants (Red Lobster and Olive Garden), Limted/Victoria's Secret, etc.

I want the best for my country -- I want our people to be able to survive economically. I want people to be able to heat their homes this winter -- even if Bush takes credit for things getting better.

BUT... I'm gonna boycott Rethuglican companies with all my might -- not because they supported "Republicans," per se, but because they supported a party that REPEATEDLY LIED, BLATANTLY, to the American people about the most important things in the world. Lied beyond all morality. Those companies supported warmongering and the dismantling of our democracy. For them, there is no forgiveness. For them, there will be none of my money!