new AP article says Howard Dean wants to be DNC chair

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=548&ncid=703&e=2&u=/ap/20041120/ap_on_el_ge/clinton_democrats

Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack is widely considered the front-runner to replace McAuliffe as party chairman, but that hasn't ended speculation about other possible candidates.

Failed presidential candidate and former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean (news - web sites) was in Little Rock Wednesday night asking people to support him.

Alexis Herman, deputy chairman of the party in Clinton's first term and labor secretary in his second, told The Associated Press on Thursday that she would consider it an honor to lead the party. Former Dallas Mayor Ron Kirk and former Denver Mayor Wellington Webb are other popular black candidates.

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By the way, I've never seen Bob Dole referred to as a "failed presidential candidate."

...but i think you mean DNC chair.

nt

Yeah. It stuck out like a sore thumb,didn't it?

At least the copy wasn't "flopped, flipped, thrown out like two week old stale bananas oozing with worms and otherwise whipped and flogged like a Greenpeace-fed baby seal..."

Yunno.

getting out and actually covering the real news and getting the real stories. Oh! I forgot they do fiction the best.

:hi:

nt

"failed" presidential candidate before I read what you wrote.

What do they call it when they aren't trying to demoralize People?

How else would you say it?

Former Vermont Governor and 2004 Democratic-primary candidate.

Even "unsuccessful presidential candidate" sounds better than "failed presidential candidate."

of anything right then and wanted some help. Thanks.

I knew it was brainwashing language the second I saw it.

Their tricks are getting stale and moldy.

asking people "to support him"..I'll wait until I hear it from Dean.

AP is a proven LIAR!

It isn't clear if Howard Dean is seeking the job.

However, I hope it's Howard Dean.

Even Simon Rosenberg, who used to work for the DLC, at least is passionate about Hispanic outreach.

Is Tom Vilsack passionate about anything related to being DNC chair?

It sure helped my state in this past election. Dems got the legislature back!

Dean is doing great work with DFA but I need to have some specifics to spout out.

http://www.democracyforamerica.com /

....

• Democracy for America contributed more than $600,000 to 634 candidates for non-federal office. 319 of those candidates won--a 50% win-loss record.

• "Dean Dozen" candidates were elected to state legislatures in 16 states. Candidates for legislature who received Democracy for America contributions, but were not part of the "Dean Dozen," were elected in an additional 12 states.

• Democracy for America played a large role in regaining several legislative chambers for the Democrats, including: the Colorado House and Senate, the North Carolina House, the Oregon Senate, the Vermont House and the Washington Senate. DFA also helped secure a tie in the Iowa Senate.

I really appreciate it! :toast:

I was so hoping Colorado would go Blue..but at least you got Ken Salazar and the others you mentioned!

Someone is pushing this story really hard.

said NOBODY wants Vilsack and DEAN is the only one who can bring the base back plus a lot of indies and moderate Repubs. His campaign proved it.

These people are just RAMMING their choices down our throats.

Complain to your local Dem party and if they still pick Vilsack, let's show them how we feel about that. LEAVE THE PARTY unless they back Dean.

this month.

Kos supports Dean.

from him, I'm not going to sign anything or advocate anything.

There are as many of us who dont not want Dean or his rightist style of giverning rammed down our throats either.v many of us will leavw the party if Dean is the choice. In fact those many whho decided that Dean was simply not the man to represent the Democrartic party in most states do not want Dean leading the party. Someone who could in the end barely muster five percent of the democratic vote in many states does not have what it takes. We lost the midwest, we need a midwesterner to run the party. Somone who knoes the midwest, and has deep roots there.

Deans support in total, never exceeded 18 percent of the overall population. HAd he had any real base, there issimply no way Kerry could have overtaken Dean. Much of Deans campaign strategy was to tryt to decieve the media into beleiving that he had far more support than he actually did. In the end, it will be Kerry and the other leaders of the party who inevitable decide. If they have any sense, which I think they do, tey will not select Dean. Dean was already given the chance to run a large part of a Democratic Party comittee and it resulted in an enormous loss of Governors seats in 2000.

He not only failed as presidential candidate. but he terribly failed in the task of getting qualified Democratic candidates to oppose incumbent Governors, and other open Governors seats in 2000. He did a terrible job and the Democratic Party is still reelling from the effects of him being given one leadership position. Even Vilsack has done better than that.

to be the big honcho terry mcauliff replacement..but this has nothing to be with Dean's unsuccessful bid for the Presidential Dem candidacy.

Dean has done a lot of great grassroots work for our Country and instead of piling shit on him AGAIN..you could fucking acknowledge that.

his political leanings as Governor, it would be easy to consider Dean for the DNC chair. A candidate, Dean did more to attack the Democratic Party, and as Governor, no one in parety history did more to divide the party for his own political ambitions. In all lieklihood, Dean would have run as a Republican for his first bid as Lt Governor, but the Republican Party was locked up tight in the state of Vermont, very incestuously.

While Dean was Governor, the Democratic Party lost more registered members to a third party, the Vermonmt Progessive Party,than the paty has lost in any state in its entire history. Democrats ccredit this to Deans continual siding with REpuvlblicans, and support for REpublican legislation, while opposing Democratic and Progressive legislation, while he was Governor. Deans philosophy of Fiscal Coservatism was closely alighed with REpublican policy. To balance budgets, Dean continually cut funding to socil programs, while favoring "business freindl" legislation". Republican Lawyer, and member of Republican Governor Richard Snellings administration, William GIlbert, established "REpublicans for Dean" an orgainzation led by thirty of Vermont's leading REpublicans. Their opposition to Republican cnadidates was based on their own phlosophy that they didnt need a REpublican cndidate while Howard Dean was in office, because Deans phoilosophy closely matched Republican philosophy anyway.

THe Democratic Party, which was the majority party in Vermont when Dean became Governor started to hemmorage registered members drectly in opposition to Deans leadership of the Democratic Party. From 55 percent of Vermont being registered Democrat, this percentage shrank to 34 percent by the time Dean left office. By 2000 the Democratic Party was down to 34 percent, while Progressives grew from a relatively small party, centered in the state capitol, to a membership that is now 25 percent of Vermonts registered voters/, enabling Republicans to control Vermont with a mere 41 percent of the states registered voters. In an essentially progressive state, the left has been split, and the right rules.

Whatever Dean has done seems to have been done more for personal political goals, than it has been for any loyalty to progressive, or even democratic party ideals.

If you examine the record, you could acknowledge that.

Whatever Dean did, he did for himself and not oput of principal. As many Vermont Liberal and Progressives point out, Dean will say anything to get elected, and then fail to do what he said to get democratic support.

As Governor. almost all of the opposition to Dean came from Democrats. Liberals and Progressives. There was little or no opposition to Dean from the right, except for the very far right neo-cons, who comprised a very small percentage of Vermont Republicans.

Yeah, cause none of us have examined his record. :eyes:
:7

I see you're not going to acknowledge Dean's good work ..so forget it.

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Odds are against Dean, as his past failures in party posts will weigh heavily against him.

Talks about Kerry's dirty tricks. Dean was known as a master of dirty politics long before he decided to run for the presidency.

His attack dog politics as Governor were legend, and he did not fail to bring out every dirty trick in the book as candidate for the nomination. His duplicity about his ever changing position on Iraq is just as legendary. His past stances on social security, including it in the all consideration form cuts in the federal budget, plus his repeated statements about raising the age of retirement, and then trying to wiggle out of it is just as duplicitous. Trying to get the truth out of Dean is nearly impossible. he has cleverly gained a following by telling a bunch of people what they want to hear, but in all liklihood would have NO intention of keeping once elected is also something that can easily be found in his record. Promises rarely keptm and his reasons always revolved around balancing budgets. Cuts to social programs at all times, in order to balance the budget. He had other alternatives as governor, such as raisinfg taxes on the rich, but Dean ralying cry when this was suiggested was that the rich in Vermont were already taxed too highly.

Deans political history makes the DLC look like radical leftists.

Kerry has already started using those campaign millions to keep pushiing his agenda for national heath care among other issues. Whats Dean doing to get voters to push for the values of the Democratic Party. Next to squat. Most of the moeny Dean has is still being used to try to manuver for power. Nothing More, Nothing less.

No matter whatKerry brought out more peopl han Dean could ever have mustered. Dean's massive failures as candidate simply prooved that his support was illusary. It didnt exist. It was media campaign fakery at its best.

When Deans own miserable falure as a candidate is exposed, his suypporters must whine about dirty tricks. They were not necessary. The disconnect between Deans campaign trickery, and his actual record as Governor, were all that were needed to destroy a candidacy based on smoke and mirrors. A Dean DNC would prove to be equally a failure. Nationally the Democratic Party would shrink as much as Dean caused ot to in Vermont. I expect that if Dean had been the nominee, even Ralph Nader would have done far better this year than he did four years. Kerry lost to BUsh, but you fogot to add one thing, Dean lost to Kerry, and he lsot miserably. Many millions of camaign funds squandered.

He is a losers loser.

And a Dino, democrat in name only.

is how many paragraphs it takes you to say nothing.

Fact is, Dean is a player in the Dem party now much MORE than even Kerry is,

Sorry, Mr. J, but that is the truth.

"...as his past failures in party posts will weigh heavily against him."

Doesn't seem to have hurt the DLC any...idiots are still convinced that their plan of centrism is the way to go....maybe if Kerry had done a better job of running on Dean's campaign he would have won...

We will never know for sure...especially if the DLC types get their way....

Even Bayh 2008....NOT!

about his political leanings. Far from being a progressive, or even a centrist, Deans actual record as Governor has had many political scientists describe Dean as a "Rockerfelar REpublican". Denas campign largely garnered support among people who were justas ignorant of his actual political leanings ,or in fact, like the supporters of George Bush, refused to accept that their chosen candidate was anything but progressive or liberal, and in fact was much farther to the right than any of the membes of thr DLC that he criticized. Dean's ability to tap into a group that would sinply follow him based on what he said, without paying attention to the actualstances he had taken repetatively over his entire political career. Starting in 1986 Dean voiced opposition to any legislation that would directly deal with making the statement that gays were entitled to the same civil rights as any other citizen. He opposed this stating that such sconsiderations were already supported by eexistant civil rights laws. Dean's focus on fiscal conservatism was the fiscal conservatism of a true conservative.When it came to balancing the budget, Deans methodology was to continually cut social programs that served the elderly and the disabled. He has a history of this. His health program for chuildren has had mixed reviews, with many pointing out the his programs would eventually need to be cut further and further because he never set up a method of paying for the programs. His behavior as Governor of Vermont was diametrically opposed to his campaign platform. While sating he wanted to repeal ALL of BUsh's tax cuts including those to the middle class, on of Dean's last acts as Governor was to oppose raising taxes on the rich. claiming that the rich were alrady taxesd too highly in Vermont. This is in keeping with his ideas for repealing the Bush plan, as Dean intended to remove tax cuts to the middle class, as well as the rich. Very similar to his ideas for property taxes inVermont. His idea for Vermont property taxes was to tax the rich, the poor, and the middle class at the same rates. This type of tax places more of a burden on the poor and middle class, and favors the wealthy. Fortunately the liberal Vermont Supreme Court declared Deans preferred taxation as unconstitutional, and the legislature then had to move to a progressive, tiered property tax system that made the rich pay higer taxes.

Overall, Howard Dean, Presidential candidate, was a fictional character created for the campaign. In reality., Dean played this chameleonlike game as governor. Members of the Vermont Sierra Club pointed out that Dean always talked to people in such a way that they would be led to beleive that he was on their side, and supported their ideas, but when it finally came down to recommending legislation he always came down on the side or large croporate interests.

His supporters must make up ' dirty tricks tactics, to explain his massive loss of Iowa, but many Iowans have ponted out other reasons. His supporters are among one of the major causes of Deans losses. Many articles and blog entereis from Iowans indicate that Deans supporters were found to be annoying and abusive. One of the last recommendations made to Dean on the night of the Iowa caucuses on the local coverage from Iowa on C-Span was thatn Dean needed to get some control of his supporterds and get them to stop annoying other voters.

A few such observations are here:

And this is that it *wasn't people's neighbors* ringing their doorbell and asking them to vote Dean. It wasn't people who resembled the potential voters in broad demographic or psychographic outline. It was a cadre of out-of-staters who went so far as to visibly brand themselves out-of-staters with the orange hats - dumb, dumb move.

Nobody likes to be told how to think, least of all by self-appointed, parachuted-in vanguardists. Where the Dean Internet campaign "didn't scale," I tend to think it was in the opposite sense than the one in which we generally use this phrase. It scaled up just fine, which is what fooled all of us (and much of the national media). It simply didn't scale *down*, to neighborhoods and districts and precincts and wards, where it might have motivated people if it had ever once touched a chord of commonality or shared experience.

http://www.corante.com/many/archives/2004/01/26/is_social_software_bad_for_the_dean_campaign.php

On my campus, reports I heard from attendees of the Democratic caucus were of remarkably underwhelming Dean support. Makes me wonder - who are the people supporting him?

And yes, the Dean people were highly annoying - with a recorded message calling my dorm phone telling me about a rally. Like I'm really going to go to something a computer woke me up to tell me about (and I did have to crawl out of bed to answer the phone when said "message" was delivered). Not to mention the constant deluge of paper down the hallways and slipped under doors for Dean (and Kerry, and Edwards).


********************************************************************

The postmortem of the Iowa caucuses suggests that a few things may have changed in American politics. Unions didn't matter. (The candidate with the biggest number of unions endorsing him was Dick Gephardt, whose fourth-place showing eliminated him from the race. The candidate with the second biggest union support was Howard Dean, who came in third.) Lots of idealistic young people campaigning for you didn't matter. (Those from out of state can't vote and older voters can find them annoying, so his legions of college kids didn't do Dean much good.) Polls didn't matter, much. (Though polls detected the surge of John Kerry and John Edwards and that Dean was slipping, they missed the magnitude of the change and that Edwards actually passed Dean by a big margin. Polls will not tell you who actually votes or goes to a caucus.) Predictions didn't matter. (Early anointing of front runners and before-the-fact analysis neglects the way more and more voters now make up their minds at the last minute.)

http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/000677.html

Lots more like that from Iowa, and other places. Given this, Dean''s campaign style and the nature of the support he engenders, is not something that the Democratic Party needs. Alienating nad annoying voters is something that could well cost Democrats voters, and in fact, I would not doubt that it may have playted a factor in driving some independents away from voting Democratic in the general election.

Nicky baby....

Dean never said once that his positions on policies should be the way to go....he has always stated that we should move to positions that reflect the progressive stances of our party where we need to....

He would be the first to also argue that you need to allow moderate and conservative members to run in appropriate disctricts...

As to what the Democratic Party needs, you better get use to it. Today in my own county election, the progressives (inspired by Dean) captured 60+% of the elected statuatory committee seats and already have the candidates negotiating with us over reforming the party apparatus....

Get use to it Nicky......we are going to take the party back, whether you like it or not. Maybe if you got off the keyboard and went to your local Dem party org you could watch it all from the front row...

Your ability with syntax is great, but your naive assumptions about basic issues within the party are so off base that there may be no saving you. All your citations are from a school of self indulgent circles that reassure each other about their continuing relevance in the face of all the simpletons that surround them.

Your black and white views and backward looks cannot and do not speak for the accumulated experience of the Dean movement, and you act as if your campus is the world writ large instead of a cradle of unctious and smarmy brats who think they know what it's all about because they just finished Immanuel Kant.

The fact that Barbara Boxer, an avowed mega liberal who ran that way ,recieved THE MOST VOTES IN THE COUNTRY aside from Bush or Kerry, speaks volumes about the wrongness of your assumptions. The difference between Barbara and John Kerry is profound: she ran to the left, she energized the same base Howard Dean keeps talking about despite your ignorance of their existance, she came out with strong , clear and honest definiitiions about who she was and what she stood for and people voted for her decisively. She bested her conservative opponent by over twenty percentage points and even polled some 200,000 votes more than John Kerry. So much for the Feared Schwarzenegger effect.

The lesson here is like Barbara Boxer, that Howard Dean is pragmatic and not afraid to call things as he sees them and pursue the means to accomplish things. This includes compromise to make progess . But to you out there in academia , Nicolas, I suppose this makes him right wing. As usual, you read half the story, and put the book down to write your report.

What you missed is the larger picture of progress while you rail against something that is only a vanishing point in the picture frame of that time. Leave the party? I think when the train pulls out of the station and you didn't get on, it is the party leaving YOU.

Sorry but I really can't be bothered reading that many paragraphs about nothing except your hate for Dean.

post to tell us that you are the former Nicholas_J, because we've all seen these same posts, ad nauseum, before. What did Dean do, sleep with your dog?
Jeez.

More long-winded, boring and predictable invective from a reliable source.

Yuck.

Some here at DU may think I don't like Howard Dean due to various flavors of various wonkish layers of what I thought were old arguments, but if Howard is asking for support in Little Rock, then I'm on board.

Really.

Wait... they are still figuring it out.

I think we should start a campaign here to get Dean to take over. Dean is the type of hard hitting person we need to reinvent out party. I'm unsure of who makes the decision but as the base of the party I think we should have a major say in who leads. Anyone?

in other words, wait for a quote *from him*.

The articles I've seen so far about this have been pure speculation and unsourced quotes.

But if he says he wants to do it, we can sign the petition that has been floating around.

If he sees a major interest from people like us wanting him in it may be what he needs to make up his mind.

I wish I had the link so that I could post it for you, but I don't! Maybe someone else does.

Not because he's decided mind you, but since everyone thinks it's a good idea, and the folks who don't are worth tweaking, it is practical to have the ducks in a row. he's still on the fence last I heard from Burlington.

I'm going to send you PM in a minute. Please look for it!

Had your interview with him yet? Hope you share it when you do.

Go to DU groups, join us in the one for Democracy for America.

makes mighty fine reading!

And think about signing it and then putting your concerns in the comments window. I think that the Gov. will make his own decision, but let's send a signal to the DNC of our numbers and willingness to work for our future.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/deanfordnc
Sign the Petition!
Howard Dean for DNC Chairman!

OVER 4,000 signatures on this one!

Who else can we knock off in our quest for power to do such things as get people back into government and provide healthcare for all and a balanced budget?

Hmmmm...