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When will Lieberman leave the Democrats and become a Republican?

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:29 PM
Original message
Poll question: When will Lieberman leave the Democrats and become a Republican?
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Lieberman is too pro-choice, pro-woman and pro-labor to be Repub
I don't like him much either, but his voting record has been consistent on these issues.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Absolutely. He's one of the good guys. I don't agree with his hawkish
attitude on the war, but the guys a good egg.
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greenohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. It is amazing how nothing else matters but being anti war.
Give me a fricken break. Lieberman, though dull as all get out, is a good Dem.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. C'Mon man, Lieberman is basically a good guy. Check his record.
He's been a tried and true Democrat. Pro-Choice, Pro-Civil Rights, Pro-common friggin sense.

He's just wrong about the war is all.

:hi:
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Good call!
I swear, some people around here can be about as "single issue minded" as freepers sometimes. I hate Joe's stance on the war, but he's been a good Dem for a lot of years. He's not a bad person at all.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. its the rhetoric that bothers me honestly
but he is far from actually being the most conservative dem in the senate, and to Joe's credit, he did vote against Ashcroft and Norton, same with Kerrry.
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Is that so?
Do you think a good guy nods in approval when Sean Hannity calls his former running mate "a whiny and out of touch liberal"?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. I guess I'd have to see the clip to be convinced he was "in agreement"
;)
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ProudToBeBlueInRhody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Nodding with that smirk and........
....saying nothing is tantamount to agreement.......
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Riiiiiiight.
Nodding as I type.
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liberal democrat Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is why the Republican party is able to win more elections...
they tolerate a much more diverse group of views. Look at some of the republicans here in the Northeast. Pro-choice (even for partial birth abortion), pro-gun control, pro-gay rights, against Bush tax cuts, etc., etc. While the majority of party members disagree with these guys, they still run and win as Republicans without being asked to switch parties by the majority of voters. Lieberman is clearly a Democrat in principle. His over-reaching view of equal rights, protection of abortion, fiscal responsibility make him a Democrat. Folks, WE WILL NOT WIN ANOTHER ELECTION UNLESS WE ACCEPT A MORE DIVERSE RANGE OF OPINIONS.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. hahahahaha....stop,you're killin' me
they tolerate a much more diverse group of views.
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liberal democrat Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. yes they do,
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 11:04 PM by liberal democrat
they accept anyone who claims to be a Republican. While in our party, we require "litmus tests" in order to qualify as a Democrat. And, while Jeffords left, think of how many remain. Chaffee, Collins, Snowe, Giuliani, Bloomberg, Specter, Pataki, Todd Whitman (even after quitting her EPA job due to her views being ignored by the White House), etc. On our side, we had Zell to counteract Jefford's departure. So, there has not been an exodous of moderate/liberals from the Republican party YET. Perhaps, if in a few years, congress and Bush neglect them and just use them to win in blue states, they will leave.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I disagree with you, while the republicans do tolerate
people like arnie, guilani, putaki, etc, and let them speak at their conventions, they also purge their moderates, thats why Jeffords left.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. They USE them actually
To put a happy face on their Nazi agenda. We need to define ourselves outside of those basic issues maybe.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
9. He was one of the reasons Gore lost in 2000
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 11:00 PM by zulchzulu
Lieberman might be a moderate Repuglican (yet somehow a Democrat) in my book, but he has proven over and over again that he is also a turncoat.

I remember one time where he was asked last fall about a Kerry vote and he basically saud "gee...if it was me, Tim, I would have done something else"...or whatever.

He needs to leave the party in 2006 when someone runs against him. Hell, I'd work for Nader to beat his sniveling turncoat ass.
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liberal democrat Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Ummmm, he was just being honest.
So, you are saying that every single vote is along party lines? If one senator of the same party wanted to vote differently than he/she did, then he/she is a turncoat?
Interesting.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. I wish I had the video of that snide asshole snickering, but...
...there is no point in having to prove a rat is indeed a rat.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. He's more liberal than many think, including way too many DUers.
n/t
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. true
but I really think its his personality that pisses people off, but he isnt the most conservative dem senator, that is true, I think its Ben Nelson now and you never hear abot how awful he is.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. We do, but then we live in Nebraska.
As much as I hate to admit it, I think I respect Chuck Hagel more than Ben Nelson much of the time.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. well I dont hear much about him but Hagel actually seems like a decent guy
never would vote for him but he seems better than most republicans.
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TwilightZone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That's pretty much my take.
His stances on the issues are contrary to mine, but the thing I respect about him is that he seems to stand up for what he believes, even if it's in direct contradiction to the Bush Administration. That is so rare these days.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
14. lieberman shamelessly endangers america by putting
the protection of israel ahead of the best interests of this country, as seen by his disgusting buttkissing in advancing the neo-cons march to the invasion of iraq.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:10 PM
Original message
wow, took you only 2 minutes to shamelessly whip out the 'a-s' card
Edited on Fri Nov-19-04 11:13 PM by KG
BTW - dont threaten me.
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blackangrydem Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Saying he is pro-Israel to a fault is not anti-Semitic
Endangered Dems (will be wooed by the GOP)

Nelson
Lieberman
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liberal democrat Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. From another thread: (It must be repeated)
Bush gained 5 points among Jews almost entirely for his strong support of our closest friend, Israel. With so many Jews in Florida and a good amount in Ohio suburbs, that may have swung the election to Bush. In New York, I know many people who voted for Gore, Clinton (2x), and even Dukakis and Mondale, who voted for Bush becasue of his support for Israel. One of our biggest constituencies is the Jewish people.
I laugh as you say there is a cruel occupation of Arab lands. Do you know that Arafat and other leaders convince family that if you die while killing other Israelis, you will go to heavan. Arabs are willing to die so that they can terrorize Israelis. I think one reason as to why Dean lost was his anti-Israel stance. Many of the biggest donors are Jewish and they did not want to give to someone with a flawed view of the conflict.
The United States has no better friend than Israel. If our candidate was anti-Israeli, I would seriously consider abstaining from the presidential race.

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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Please
:eyes: :eyes:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. He all but abandoned us in this campaign & helped * if he helped any1
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. Lieberman is needed in the Democratic Party
to beat the drums of war for the upcoming attack on Iran.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-19-04 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
29. Ever wonder why Lieberman is on Faux Snooze so much?
They like him. Oh yeah, he's a great guest.

Here's a snip:

Sen. Joe Lieberman attacked the left wing of his party Sunday, saying Democrats "don't deserve to run the country" if they move left and embrace "the failed solutions of the past."

Lieberman said Dean's call for a repeal of all of Bush's tax cuts "would mean an increase in taxes on everybody, including the middle class and working families, who don't deserve it now.

"I think some of the ideas that he is reflecting are out of tune with what America needs today," he said.

"If we're for middle-class tax increases, if we send a message of weakness and ambivalence on defense, if we go back to big government spending, if we're against trade for protectionism -- which never created a job -- we don't deserve to run the country," Lieberman, a presidential candidate, said on "Fox News Sunday."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/10/dems.candidates/

Tom deLay couldn't have said it better.










"We're not going to be able to meet the challenges that America faces today."

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GRLMGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Wow
I find this thinking pretty moronic. If the Democratic party moves to the right and becomes Republican Lite, then what's the point of having an opposition party. We'll just move closer to One Party Rule. The fact that we only have two viable parties is, in itself, ridiculous in the "model for democracy". Good lord, the Democratic party needs to provide an alternative. I'm not advocating a radical move to the left, I just don't see the sense in adopting Republican stances when you're supposed to be the opposition.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
32. why should he when the party is so willing to go right with him?
Progressives need to run someone against him in 2006.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
34. He's a hawk, blindly pro-Israel, and a religious nut, but he's got a heart
He'll side with them on "cultural" issues, but when it comes to social responsibility, worker rights and the environment, he's one of us.

I don't like Quisling Joe either, from the moment he ratted out Clinton and went on his little pantywaist hissy fit clear through his sucking up to the accounting industry to call off the dogs on Enron and through periodic idiocies right up to the present, but he's A DEMOCRAT, and he'll stay one. He will never pull a Zell.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yup you check the lifetime voting record of Lieberman
Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 01:50 PM by Uncle_Ho_Ho
and his grade rates him as more liberal than most of the candidates who ran for the nomination. Only his stance on the Iraq War has people trying to miscast him as a conservative.

On most issues, Lieberman has been far more liberal than John Edwards or Bob Graham or most other Southern Democrats.

In actual practice he is ffar more liberal than Howard Dean whose record as Governor is virtually the reverse of the his campaign platform, which is not unusual for Dean who has a lifetime record of running supporting liberal ideas, but when elected, opposintg almost all liberal initiatives on taxation. government spending and many other social issues that lie at the heart of Democratic Party ideology.

Lieberman has supported some of the most liberal initiatives put forward by congress, has one of the strongest voting records and positions on assistance to the poor and the middle class including a much opposed program to create a federal housing trust to enable the poor to afford to purchase houses, as well as provide suppplemets for rent to those not earning a living wage. Lieberman like Kerry supported raising taxes on the top 2 percent in oprder to provide an even larger tax cut to the poor and the middle class.

Dean on the other hand, wanted to repeal middle class tax cuts, as governor refused to raise taxes on the rich in order to prevent cuts to much needed social programs for the poor and elderly, (threatened to actually veto any attempt to raise taxes on the rich in Vermont). For most of his five terms as Governor, the Democrats had to fight him tooth and nail to prevent him from cutting social programs to the poor, the disabled and the elderly. Every budget Dean presented every year was designed to cut out all cost of living inccreases to all programs that assisted the poor, the blind, the disabled, and the elderly. While Dean was Was governor, his most vocal opponenet were liberal democrats and progressives, while the entire right, except for a few ultraconservative neo-cons was extremely mute in its criticisms of Dean. Some of Vermonts most powerful Republicans formed an organization to support Dean for Governor, and to directly oppose the ultra conservative Ruth Dwyer, stating that while Dean was in office, there was no need fo the Republicans to put up a candidate against him, as Most of Deans political ideology was shared by most Vermont Republicans. The only issue that Vermont Republicans had difficulties with was Deans signing of the Civil Unions legislation, and they frequently tried tried to make the case that this was not Deans legislation , but that it was bbasically forced on him by the Vermont Supreme Court, and that had Dean been responsible for initiating such legislation it never would have occured, as Dean had a record before civil unions became a major Voermnont issue, of opposing separate legislation regarding gay civil rights, stating that such legislation should be put forth as an overall civil rights bill dealing generally with civil rights for minorities.

I find it almost amusing that many Democrats who attack Lieberman are the Democratic version of the sort of blind support that Bush got from individuals who supported him regardless of the evidence in the records. Regardless of Bush's terrible handling of Iraq, and all of the findings of numerous comittees that found no links to Saddam and Al Qaeda or September 11th, No WMD's all sorts of problems with Bush's fiscal policy, such as the witholding of information on the costs of the new medicare prescription drug bill, Bush supporters sinply still refuse to accept the evidence. They still beleive that Saddam had WMD's, that he had links to Al Qaeda, that he had something to do with September 11th, that he finances Palestinian suicie bombers (he did not, he simply gave money to the widows of such suicide bombers, becanse Muslims consider them to be Holy Warrior, and the Quran makes it a religious obligation to provide support for the widows and orphans of holy warriors. Saddam's may have been trying to curry favor among religious Muslims for his secular government, but in no way were these payments offered as incentives to suicide bombers to continue bombing). Polls found that Bush supporters were surprisingly ignorant of the reality of these things, or completely refused to accept the findings of numerous intelligence organizations and comittees designed to get to the truth on these matters.

It seems that there is a contingency among democrats who behave exactly as Bush supporters do, failing to examine candidates actual records on issues, while supporting canddaites who tailor their campaigns to appear to support liberal or progressive policies,, but who have records that are woefully lacking actual support for democratic and progressive ideas where they really count, when they have to enact policy or support legisltion or pass legislation based on liberal or progressive principals. Liberman has a record of supporting, voting for, and attempting to pass some of the most progressive legislation put forth by Democrats. A few other candidates had less sterling records than Lieberman. Some actively opposed virtually all progressive and liberal legislation presented to them, ot hung back and avoided taking a stand until they had not alternative.

A Democrat who mindlessly supports any candidate who simply sculpts a campaign to attract voters, but has no real record of working to support and uphold Democratic and Progressive ideas, is really not much better than those mindless fools who put George Bush back into office based on some vague principal such as "values". In the end, when the failure of Bush to get results, and all of the instances in which the Bush Administration has been found to have lied or misrepresented the intelligence to support his going into Iraq, Bush supporters had to fall back on a vague "value" based position to justfiy their support for Bush. Some Democrats are engaged in similar blind support of candidates who would in all likelihood not differ substantially from the current administration when it comes to supporting Democratic ideas.


One quote from Dean was most interesting:

He once likened a group of liberal Democrats to communists. He publicly said he hoped one fellow Democrat would lose shortly before her election.

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/06/Worldandnation/Democrat_laces_up_a_l.shtml

And there are Democrats who attack Joe Lieberman as being a conservative.
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