Howard Dean would be President-elect right now.

Michigander4Dean

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Sat Nov-20-04 09:49 AM
Original message

Howard Dean would be President-elect right now.

Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 09:49 AM by Michigander4Dean

But he made too much sense for the media to let him be our nominee.

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emulatorloo

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Sat Nov-20-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message

1. John Kerry would be President-elect right now

But the media was too busy pumping up Bush and Terror

And presenting John Kerry through a filter - summarizing him incorrectly, quoting him out of context, misquoting him. All the while cherry picking the Best Bush Clips that represented Bush in the best possible light.

When John Kerry was unfiltered (the debates) he made a lot of sense and people responded. Then it was back to 24/7 pumping up of the Terror Threat and the Terror President.

JMHO

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lwesty

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #1

12. "newbie" needs help!!

I read this yesterday on DU and now I can't find it. So here it is again. I think it's important. Between this and Kerry's e-mail I think they are trying to determine how much support they still have since so many Dem's jumped ship and started Kerry bashing after his concession.: "► Contacting Kerry. If you would like to urge Kerry to withdraw his concession or share information about election fraud, Cameron Kerry, John’s brother is collecting comments. His email is: vri@dnc.org" This is the link http://ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=197520

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1

20. I agree witht his. Kerry was ahead in the polls around the time of the...

...debates. In the last ten days, the media only talked about OBL and missing explosives (when he had an election going on!) and Kerry lost his lead.

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cali

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Sat Nov-20-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message

2. Useless speculation

Why bother with this sort of mental masturbation?

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comradebillyboy

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Sat Nov-20-04 09:58 AM
Response to Original message

3. you mean we should have nominated

a candidate that actually stood for something? don't be silly, our candidates must be mushy and innoffensive and not take a position on anything.

i voted for kerry, but i never did understand if he thought attacking iraq was a bad idea. no wonder people thought he was wishy washy, he was.

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emulatorloo

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #3

13. Bush won on "Daddy Keep Me Safe From Terror"

Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 11:00 AM by emulatorloo

Dean stood for something
Kerry stood for something too

Both stand for the principles of the Democratic Party. . .opportunity, a fair shake a jobs, help when you need it, healthcare, go to war because you have to, not because you want to.

Bush campaigned on Terror, John Kerry won't keep you safe. Kerry pointed out many times that that wasn't true.

----------------------
some supplementary reading on Bush voter, in case you haven't seen this study:

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

a supplementary cartoon:

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=18049

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janx

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #13

14. Yep. It was about fear. They instilled it for years leading up to the

election.

I had hoped that people would be the brave lot that Americans are supposed to be, but many caved in to the fear propaganda.

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UpsideDownFlag

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message

4. that depends on whether you ask the electorate, or Diebold. nt

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WI_DEM

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message

5. Dean's opponents can't prove he would have lost, but we supporters

can't prove he would have won, because we just don't know--it is all speculation. I'm as big a Dean supporter as nearly anyone, but I'm not sure we help our cause in promoting Dean to others on this board with this kind of speculation. I think Dean could have won, but then I thought Kerry or just about any Democrat would have won this year.

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Cheswick2.0

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message

6. he told the truth... people around here are still refering to the truth

as "gaffes".
Truth tellers must be destroyed. Just ask Al Gore.

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PassingFair

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message

7. Hey Michigander...

Go under DU groups and click on Democracy For America forum....
check in and see what we're up to...

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Forkboy

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:22 AM
Response to Original message

8. No telling

It's possible,but then again,maybe not.

Who knows,and speculating is just that.

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malatesta1137

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:29 AM
Response to Original message

9. Dean would get maybe 75% of Kerry's vote

it would be a great disaster, and that's coming from a Deaniac.

We won't win with a liberal from the Northeast ever again. We need another Southern Democrat like Carter or Clinton, not Edwards unfortunately, who couldn't even carry his own state.

Maybe Clark?

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Zynx

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #9

10. Edwards wouldn't carry his own state, but he might knock off some others.

However, I would prefer that we run somebody like Mark Warner or Mike Easley or Wesley Clark.

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sabbat hunter

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Sat Nov-20-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #10

36. how about

rep ford or Gov richardson as two possible candidates. Richardson would win NM and AZ unless McCain was the repub nominee. would give us a shot at nevada and help win florida as well.
Obama is a good idea as well, but he probably needs a second term in senate before he can make a sucessful run. i think edwards lack of political experience hurt him

david

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Teaser

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Sat Nov-20-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message

11. Who knows?

You have no reason to believe this other than blind faith.
I love Ho-ho too, but it may be that this election just wasn't in the cards for us.

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FW_

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #11

15. Dean

It's really easy to just say "Dean would be President-elect now" but we'll never know. I actually don't think he would have won or even lost by a smaller margin, but since it didn't happen, it's speculation.

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Gin

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #15

18. I supported Dean....bought buttons and bumper stickers...donated, voted.

for him...etc..when he came to my town ..it dawned on me that "none" of his literature said "Dean for President" it all said "Dean for America."

It was then that I realized he (subconsciously) really didn't want to be president. I think he may have said he really didn't think he had a chance and was surprised at the response he was getting.

Anyway...that's my take on the Howard Dean phenomenon. (IMHO)

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hippiechick

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message

16. I'm a screaming Deaniac, but I disagree.

They would have marginalized him even more successfully than they did Kerry. It would have been a solid Bush win because all the fringe fanatics would have come out of the woodwork.

Howard WILL BE the man - soon - but this election cycle, he (and the organization) just weren't quite ready for prime time.

:hippie:

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greenohio

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:11 AM
Response to Original message

17. He handled the primaries masterfully.

How many states did he win?

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AmyStrange

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Sat Nov-20-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #17

47. Yes and Kerry did masterfully also...

so when's his innaugaration again?

Dean would have been more interesting,

d

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Eloriel

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:16 AM
Response to Original message

19. We'll NEVER have another Dem President,

Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 11:17 AM by Eloriel

nor another Democratic-led House or Senate if we don't fix the voting machine problems.

I love Dean, more than I can put into words. But he wouldn't have "won" either, not under these circumstances.

Please, everyone, stop the self-flagellation (and stop the wishing for Kerry to "unconcede" as well), and get busy helping expose vote fraud via the riggable, hackable, untrustworthy, paperless voting machines and vote suppression so we retain our right to actually elect someone.

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

DONATE to our own DUer hedda_foil's 27, Help America Recount: www.helpamericarecount.org

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PopSixSquish

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message

21. You Know This How?

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Zynx

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #21

24. He doesn't. He's just being outlandish.

I supported Dean in the primaries, but I don't think he would have done much better than Kerry and probably would have done worse.

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Quixote1818

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:27 AM
Response to Original message

22. Why did Dean do so poorly in polls against Bush then?

One Poll had Bush beating Dean by like 15 points while at the same time Clark, Kerry and Edwards were right with Bush or even ahead of Bush. Not once did I see a poll with Dean beating Bush. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

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Julien Sorel

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Sat Nov-20-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message

23. He would have crushed Bush 50 states to 0.

That's why the media and the Republicans and the DLC got together and spiked his campaign.

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Name removed

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Sat Nov-20-04 12:04 PM
Response to Original message

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

greenohio

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Sat Nov-20-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message

26. The mad mad Deaniacs do dean no favors.

Angry Dean imploded in the primaries. If the values thing is true, he would have been hammered in the general election.

He was the governor of vermont. They have what, 640k people there? Its like the mayor of Dayton OH running for president. The man has passion, but he just looks mad.

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cali

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Sat Nov-20-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #26

30. So only Governors of large states

should be eligible to run? Harrrumph. Ark. ain't exactly big either. I'm not suggesting Dean should have been the candidate, just that the small state thing is a canard, but hey I'm a Vermonter and I think the rest of the states would do well to take a look at how we govern ourselves.

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dionysus

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Sat Nov-20-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #26

34. Dean wasn't angry

Jesus Christ, if I see another DUer buy into the bullshit spin my head will explode!!!!

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greenohio

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Sat Nov-20-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #34

37. You sound upset.

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zulchzulu

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Sat Nov-20-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message

27. If only there was no primary season or media to cover it...

Yeah.. a minor technicality.

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nothingshocksmeanymore

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Sat Nov-20-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message

28. This endears people to Dean. You make a difference

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American Tragedy

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Sat Nov-20-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message

29. That is a massive and unjustifiable stretch

You give far too much credit to the American electorate, and too little credit to the Republican campaign attack machine.

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bettys boy

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Sat Nov-20-04 03:42 PM
Response to Original message

31. Wishful thinking

Giant swaths of the country are years away from being ready for Howard Dean.

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Name removed

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Sat Nov-20-04 03:42 PM
Response to Original message

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Name removed

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Sat Nov-20-04 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #32

35. Deleted message

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greenohio

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Sat Nov-20-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #32

38. Fricken amen.

Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 04:36 PM by greenohio

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zulchzulu

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Sat Nov-20-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #32

40. Dean's not a bad guy...it's the groupies that have a problem

I always think of Jerry Garcia when he was asked why his fans were so into him and thought he was God or something and he would just scratch his head and wonder why they were so obsessed.

Likewise with Dean. He has mentioned several times that he wonders about the obsession. He did lose in the primaries, but he's doing good work now.

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AmyStrange

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Sat Nov-20-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #40

48. anti-Deaners were (and still are) a problem now...

a small minority on both sides who insult and are just mean spirited were (and still are) the "real" problem here,

d

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dionysus

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Sat Nov-20-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message

33. I would agree

but they would have stole it with him too. Still think he would have been a great candidate, but hey, in 08 he will be strong.

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greenohio

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Sat Nov-20-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message

39. Did dean win any states in the primaries...

I honestly don't know.

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MuseRider

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Sat Nov-20-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #39

41. I think he won

Vermont. I don't really know, I quit listening to him before the primary debates when I realized whatever he said would change. I never thought he was terribly reliable.

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ScreamingMeemie

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Sat Nov-20-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #39

42. He won Vermont...and they stopped counting in Maine and Washington.

It will always be my opinion that the party gave out a demand, and it was followed.

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Clarkie1

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Sat Nov-20-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message

43. Dean would have done poorly because of his lack of foreign policy or

military expereince in a time of war, in my opinion.

I think most registered democrats would agree.

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depakid

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Sat Nov-20-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #43

44. Well, gee- doesn't that beg the question

of how he would have done were Clark his running mate?

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Julien Sorel

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Sat Nov-20-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #44

45. No, it doesn't beg any questions.

And he probably would have done about as well as Kerry did in the South with Edwards as his running mate.

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AmyStrange

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Sat Nov-20-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #44

50. and also begs...

how Bush won then?

d

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Quixote1818

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Sat Nov-20-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message

46. Dean's a great guy but his cult following is disturbing.

I never bought Amway products and I will never buy the stuff you folks are trying to sell. At least Amway did produce a few millionaires but Dean could not get better than third place in any state and yet a small number of his followers think he would have swept all 50 states against Bush???? Strange? Very strange!

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NYCGirl

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Sat Nov-20-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #46

49. No one said Dean would have swept all 50 states against Bush.

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