C-SPAN 2 Thread #2

They are considering the Stevens joint resolution now. No objections?

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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1376913

Look at that vest he has on! :D

He brought that vest out from his 1970s wardobe. I LOVE IT!

I just left a VM saying thanks, if if he DID happen to be there, or to
pass on my thanks to those that are if he was not :shrug: ;)



Peace?


Trinity (was from FLA now WV and damn proud of my Senators ;)


:hippie: :smoke: :freak:

Talk about a great man.....its his birthday and instead of home eating cake with friends and family, he's protecting our democracy....

:kick:

He is going to kick ass.

Fancy!

...I hate new threads on continuing subjects. But I have broadband, so I guess I should remember those on dialup. But some continuity is lost.

as he is. Gettum Sen. Byrd.

What a rebellious vest he's got! LOL

The minute that Conrad (D-ND) suggested it get taken out immediately (I'm like "just print out a new page in Word and have everybody initial it right?" - of course if it was a REAL MISTAKE - yeah right).

Mistake my ass.

I don't suppose it's possible to ever find it out. I doubt it was Stevens.

I haven't heard any other Republican speak, though.

It was a male voice, very close to whatever mike is picking this all up. I was praying that Boxer would say who it was - she didn't - which tells me this is a VERY BIG DEAL.

Pay attention folks!

Is this how we're going to get ledgislation passed now? Just say, "oh, it's cool, we won't really follow that law"

McCain asked too. What happened???

more then 5 min of Cspan and I am floored. Holy crap. What the hell else is stuck in this bill?

and according to McCain, money for the Rock and Roll hall of fame and for conga dancing or something.

they had? 3 or something like that. Who knows what is in the Bill.

Also attached is a rider freeing hospitals from locals laws requiring that they provide abortions/abortion information. I know Boxer was opposing that earlier, but I missed that part and they seem to have moved onto the tax return thing now.

provision be voted on up or down in April.

And those are the innocuous provisions. Who knows what Big Brother crap is stuck in this stinker of an omnibus bill.

for keeping the unplugged informed. Really appreciate it.

I'm looking, and I may be blind, but it's a maze





Peace?



Trinity :hippie: :smoke: :freak:

I'm so pissed about these freaking scummy republicans sneaking all kinds of CORRUPT BULLSHIT into these last min bills and screwing over Americans in the process!

I would dig my heels in and say fuck this, I ain't signing it, consequences be damned. Maybe you corrupt assholes will think twice about pulling this shit again.

IAM TIRED OF HEARING HOW MUCH HARD WORK THEY HAVE DONE AND IT MUST BE SIGNED.

As an American - take ALL the time you need. Call every crook back from the House - I DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*** - if they left on VACATION - this is the people's business and they shouldn't have done it in the first place!!!!!!! :nuke:

What difference would it make? How much of chance do we (the minority) have in stopping this crap? Or, will the Repubs all vote for it and get it passed?

They declared that it would fail 100 - 0. Stevens was apoplectic over it and said it was a mistake. Yeah, right.

Whoever said Byrd was giving the Dems time to regroup was right!

This provision allows the committee chairmen in Congress (all Repubs) OR ANYONE THEY AUTHORIZE to access whoever's tax info they want FOR NO REASON. Then, they are free to publicize it however they wish. HUGE PROPENSITY FOR VENGEFUL, VINDICTIVE BEHAVIOR

Stevens put on a good act saying "I didn't know it was in there, oops, we'll never use it" BUT as Conrad pointed out it will become LAW the minute they sign it. Stevens said we'll fix it (with the President's permission - ha, ha) when Congress reconvenes.

By the way, Stevens word doesn't mean shit because today is his LAST DAY in the Senate.

OR Senate in action before and don't really know how it works. I was especially wonder how much power we have to stop things like this if THEY want them.

This is really alarming to me. I cannot believe it. Although I really shouldn't be surprised at anything they try.

Stevens went all nuts, saying it was impugning his honor if they (meaning us - regular Americans) don't take his WORD that he won't use this new power. He promised he wouldn't use it.
The catch? Today is his last day, so he can't promise that.

He proposed letting the bill be made into law and then the repuke infested House would "fix" it (and they put it in there to begin with), only w/the Pres.'s permission, when they come back into session in Dec.

Problems with that: as soon as they sign it tonight, it becomes VALID LAW. You must trust the republicans not to use this newly granted power AND that Bush would not try to keep this new power. That's a whole lot of trusting corrupt Republicans WHO PUT THIS IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Conrad (D-ND) said - "tell ya what, just delete it, print up a new page and we'll be good to go, then we can sign it".
Sounds reasonable right? They (repubs) claimed it was an accident after all.... Conrad put forth a motion to that effect and out of the blue SOMEONE (not identified) OBJECTED!!! Instantly!!

So, what does that tell you???

"You expect us to trust this administration?!?"

This is how our constitution and our rights are slowly (or quickly depending on your point of view) is being dismantled before our very eyes and sadly and most frightening by the very same people who are elected to represent us...most unbelievable is many didn't even know it included this little poison pill, and who knows how many more are included in there that we still don't know about!

But what should scare us all is that there are those that DO KNOW and are very aware that these are in there and ARE SUPPORTING it....

:scared:

when senators were truly genteel about business. He can't believe the lackadisical ways of the repugs.

He's scolding the Senate. Just asked for another ten minutes.

Maybe this gives Dorgan and Dems time to regroup.

"That was not the legislative process when I was majority leader. That is not what I taught (at the university)....A terrible disservice to the citizens of the United States for their Senators to examine bills. They didn't run the Senate like this years ago, we don't have to 'get out of here' by Sunday, etc...I am not here for the pleasure of members, I am here to get work done! I don't like this process. We're getting paid to work. We need to get out of this bob-tailed schedule we're working on!" - Byrd

The provision allows only the chairmen of the Appropriations Committees or their designess or agents to access IRS records. Not any committee chair.

Does anyone know who the incoming House and Senate chairs of Appropriations are???

... DeLay might benefit from this if he could get hold of that pesky DA's returns down there in Texas.

and companies send returns to India to be processed. If they don't put it in that returns can be released, a mess of folks will be sueing some IRS ass.

Tax Returns Processed in India

http://www.opiglobal.com/includes/pdfs/taxCosource.pdf">Outsourcing return processing saves $$

Yeah, that all makes us safer!

Conrad says something is being worked out in the cloakroom.

Kennedy up now!!

Fix it ... I won't sign it - thank you senators Kennedy & Byrd!

Happy 87th Birthday Sen. Robert Byrd! :loveya: :party:

dedicated to staying out of people's personal business! NOT.

He proposes taking some time to review the bill.

Boxer: the leadership is meeting to consider what to do. She's taking some time to talk about Breaux and his retirement while the cloakroom meeting is going on.

I can respectfully say, "No, not actually".

I thought it was Boxer too until she came on camera.

I was listening, not looking. They DO sound alike in tonal quality at least.

Breaux (sp?) is gone.

n/t

first. I suck at spelling. Thank God spelling wasn't a section on the bar exam.

The people of Louisiana have something to be proud of.

I actually grew up down the street from her. Her father was Mayor of New Orleans and later Sec. of HUD under President Carter.

She is giving the Dems time to figure out what to do.

....and this is probably her biggest "prime-time" moment in her Senate career so far.

It's nice and all but can't it wait?

Let her do hand puppets...

Keep talking, Mary. We have a monitor in the bar.

Wants to talk about Sen. Breaux while the leadership decides what to do.

Uh-oh... does this mean Reid will be calling the shots on this? He probably has no issue with the abortion gag rider. Will they only strip out the tax thing or also the gag order? They better do both. At a minimum...

What they are doing here is embarassing the Repubs into changing things. I don't know if they can embarass them into changing things with the abortion amendment.

Thanks from those of us who don't have cable.

Republicans suck.

Cowardly manipulative religious reichist deception!

Going to a movie. I'm almost tempted not to go, but I know I can find out what happened right here. ;-)

...the one offending part of it?

that is why this is a particularly egregious offense.

Since the repubs claimed it was an "error" that just lept in there, Conrad said let's make a procedural deviation, and reprint that section taking it out (this is unusual, but can be done for an honest mistake).

It rec'd an immediate objection from someone not named.

You must sign or not sign the whole bill and the scummy repubs in the House knew this, dropped it on the Senate at the last minute and fled town for vacation.

Am I understanding correctly that they have to pass this now for the gov. to be funded past Sunday?

If that's the case.

Damn them for waiting til the last minute anyway - just like Byrd said.

It was because of repub crap like this.

it is incredibly disturbing that this could have been passed into law without us knowing it. We should be outraged. Not one senator is physically capable of reading this. We receive it at the last minute and are asked to pass it 2 hours later. This is disgraceful.

has repeatedly accused us of being "angry".

...don't get me wrong, it wasn't with approval, but just utter amazement to watch these people in action, acting so self-righteous and then acting with horror and offense that someone dare question them....What they clearly hope by doing this is to intimidate and get someone like Sen. Conrad to "back down" from their efforts....the sad thing is that it seems that often it has worked...I can only hope that as we go into the new session in '05 with less Dems, that instead of doing what seems to be the call of "moving to the middle" that we have the fighters for justice coming out from the Dems and defending democracy as we have all witnessed tonite....

:kick:

....if you want to see what the Other Side is saying about this, here's the thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1284886/posts

Some of them actually think this is a Dem attempt to make DeLay look bad. Go figger.

Sec. 222. Hereafter, notwithstanding any other provision of law governing the disclosure of income tax returns or return information, upon written request of the Chairman of the House or Senate Committee on Appropriations, the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service shall allow agents designated by such Chairman access to Internal Revenue Service facilities and any tax returns or return information contained therein.


Sen. Conrad says that the important part is the part I have bolded. It says that any other laws governing disclosure are moot.

.... against the DA that has been going after DeLay in Texas. I bet many in Congress would like to go after their enemies.

and then PUBLISH it however they want.

They are so stupid they are clueless as to what this means to EVERYONE or how this works.

Morons!!!

and publicized without their permission?

Hey, I don't have anything to hide. But, I certainly don't want someone to have the power to look at my financial info without having to ask.

Those poor idiots have no idea what they're voting for when they vote for Republicans. They're complaining about the bill too, and they can't seem to grasp that it's their turds that did this.

Makes you want to pull your hair out! :argh:

-Laelth

many rights will be effected on Sunday. Any idea what ones he is referring too?

This bill is what pays for the gov't to keep running financially.
If they don't sign it, the gov't can grind to a halt.
Because of how urgent this is, it is RIPE for abuse by sneaking stuff in at the last minute when it can be hidden in a bill that must be passed for the gov't to keep running.

damn them all for waiting 'til the last minute.

because he had to wait so damn long

It may do no good, but at least I tried...

Senator Snowe:

I don't know if anyone in your office is reading your email or monitoring your fax machine on a Saturday night, but the Senate is in session and debating an incredibly important, terribly troubling, and possibly devastating piece of legislation. I am watching on C-SPAN2 at this moment and I heard your name among those listed on the letter Senator Feinstein read regarding the appalling anti-abortion language contained in this bill.
And anyone who has ever taken a history or political science course should know Ted Stevens is dead wrong when he says the language allowing Congressional staffers access to every IRS record in any IRS facility in the country will not become law if this bill passes tonight and is signed by President Bush. Of course it will become law. That is such a basic fact of government I first learned it watching School House Rock when I was 5. And whatever reassurances Senator Stevens provides, NO ONE could have read all 3300 pages of that bill that you are about to vote on.

I have written you in the past. You will not remember, but I have met you and spoken with you. I have told you how much my grandmother admired you and saw in you the qualities of Senator Margaret Chase Smith. She would have been proud to hear you standing up for women earlier this evening, but she passed away this past May.

I implore you to live up to my grandmother's praise, hopes and expectations. Please vote NO on this monstrosity of a spending bill and make the Appropriations Committee come back and do it right.

They both signed a letter quoted by Senator Feinstein. I missed part of it but I assume it has to do with the anti-abortion section of this disgusting omnibus bill.

Edited for spelling.

the anti-abortion language. I noticed the names Dole and Hutchison were missing... I think every other woman member of the Senate signed.

I like how they are on "morning rules" at 7:45 PM...

"Now in a serious quandary"

He's going to instruct the Senate, too, on "serious failures of intelligence."

Where they just talk and talk and talk for no real purpose other than talking?

....that Senator Graham is leaving the Senate, and he has probably more info on intel than anyone there. So I don't object to listening to him for a few minutes.

I will miss him a lot. I love some of these guys. They give so much for us all, and we don't even realize really what they do.

When these guys open the fridge door and the light comes on, they do ten minutes of schtick.

Old joke, I know. But let's call it DU "filler" during this lull in the action.

if they want.

Right now, at least folks can use the opportunity to get up and bitch about whatever to kill time.

Sen Reid filibustered last session by reading a book he wrote on his hometown. Ask me all about Searchlight, NV - hahahahaha.

I think watching someone read the phone book would be a hoot too. Perhaps they could read encyclopedias ..
Start with A and move on up to Z then the index!

What a hoot.

pretty good for an old guy!

legislation.

As the repubs overreach on everything, I PRAY for high drama and serious opposition!

questions about Searchlight (he was giving Reid a chance to rest his voice - you cannot stop speaking or the filibuster dies).

Sen Levin would ruminate on ALL KINDS of things about Searchlight and then pose a question at the end.

It was all pretty funny.

This would have been historical veiwing to have seen.

They are on "morning rules" which means every Senator gets 10 minutes to talk. Once their 10 minutes are up, they are done.

These bills can not be filibustered.

Once debate ends, a simple up or down vote will be taken.

it isn't hard to imagine this going until after midnight.

I imagine we'll have more Dorgan v Stevens fireworks as well.

I just wish we could see what was happening up in the cloak room. That will also determine how much longer this goes on.

Is he not in this discussion, fighting for us? Or maybe he's behind the scenes...Anyhow I would love to hear him address this calamity of a bill.

...he's not skiing at the family place in Idaho. That would be unfortunate.

It must be a tag team match in there.

Imagine if Conrad's staff HAD NOT CAUGHT THIS!

Whoever that sharp staffer was deserves a big ole thank you from all Americans.

As we are all witnessing right now, whistleblowers that would make the system stay honest are being strongly discouraged and even purged from federal employment. In a recent memo by new CIA Director Porter Goss, one of those involved in the 9-11 cover-up and one of the three persons (Senators Graham and Kyl, Congressman Goss) that Pakistan ISI head Lt.Col. Mahmood Ahmed was meeting with in Washington when 9-11 happened, issued this warning to CIA employees. Remember that it was this Pakistani lieutenant colonel that wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta shortly before 9-11.

www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112004Schwarz/112004schwarz.html

I'm going to have to leave the house to go to the grocery store in about ten minutes.

Can someone PLEASE post highlights here? I sure hate to miss the outcome of the cloak room meeting.

Third (or fourth?) time they tried to start the quorum call!

hee, hee - come on in guys!
Time to circle the wagons - put down those drinks and get ready to rumble!

Hee-hee

as I have been feeling for months.

I'm not much of a Congress watcher (I'm embarrassed to say), so could anyone who follows the deliberations of Congress more regularly give your opinion on how this will turn out?

Will the Democrats in Congress wimp out, or is the IRS issue potentially explosive enough that even the Republicans will fear a backlash if they vote for it?

that the IRS provision is toast.

sounds like the repubs are really fighting to keep it in and that looks very bad for whatever evil plans they have in place for some poor sucker or groups of suckers - like us here on DU? - gulp!

To us political junkies, this is a big deal. But, will this get swallowed up during the Thanksgiving week? Methinks, it definitely could.

... Sen Akaka is first alphabetically in the Senate this term!

i think the abortion gag on docs didn't take into consideration the health of the mother. so, it's got to be removed, too.

if they don't

...husand out of town. But My friends, this is an old fashioned Fillibuster (tag team style). As a long time watcher of the Senate, you do not see this very often Frist up now. Ha.

Who did it, but they are in the cloakroom trying to get a

Col. Mustard Yellow
Miss Scarlet Red
Prof. Plum Purple
Mr. Green Green
Mrs. White White
Mrs. Peacock Blue

Each with his own specialty they are coming out through secret passages, and making "Suggestions" for us all to hear and be aware of..
Oh my and what all will we learn while they are letting them talk to fix the boo boo...

Who did it, why did they do it,will it get undone?

Headstart thousands and thousands of kids affected

Afterschool program - further cut

No child left behind - teacher quality (upgrading) cut

Vocational education cut

28% education technology cut (computers etc.)

Pell Grants - 100's of thousands not funded enough

Healthcare 250 million away from the NIH (medical research)

Bioterrorism cuts

Service corps cuts

list goes on etc......


Sorry not verbatim ......Best I can do

He was complaining about education funding. Evidently he had been promised that MN wouldn't lose any additional funds for education, but he discovered that that promise had been broken in this bill as well.

Looks like the Dem. Senators are stalling while staffers read the bill to figure out just how heinous it really is. I expect more surprises before the night is out.

And the R's are asking us to just trust them. Liars and thieves!

-Laelth

Thanks, Sen. Frist for the news!

We should write letters to the major Oklahoma newspapers asking why Sen. Istook wanted to open up our personal IRS records. Why, Sen. Istook do you want to do this???

And FOR WHO?

But he is a verrrry bad guy.

Let the Govt shut down until Wednesday, and let the egg drip off the Repubs' faces!

I don't trust them....do not sign

If they pass this as Frist and Daschle have described, I see a HUGE potential problem. They want to pass the bill tonight and hold it in the Senate until Wednesday when the House will vote to remove the IRS provision. Then send it to the president to be signed.

What happens if Wednesday comes and Tom Delay tells the Democrats to go F themselves? The law will have been passed and there isn't ANYTHING that can be done. The law will go to President Bush and be signed into law.

Period. This is a HORRIBLE idea.

If the provision is not in the bill they pass tonight, but is in the earlier House version, wouldn't this difference have to be dealt with in conference committee (Sen and House) before becoming law? Sorry, if I missed something.

Frist and Daschle named a type of resolution I had never head before. Thanks to TiVo, I see it is called an "enrolling resolution" (according to the closed captioning, although it sounded like he said "annulling resolution")

This resolution, along with the conference report, would be sent to the House, and if passed by the House would remove the IRS provision from the bill before it is sent to the president to sign.

But what about the continuing resolution which the Senate is supposed to pass which will keep the government running until Wednesday? The House never passed that, so I fail to see how it could become law.

Also, what happens if Tom Delay decides not to allow the correction to become law? The House will have passed the bill, the Senate will have passed the bill...would the House and Senate have to go to conference to determine the outcome of this resolution removing the IRS provisions, or, as I posted above, would the bill simply move from the Congress to be signed into law by the president?

I'll be checking thomas.loc.gov to see if I can find the answer....

so I guess we have to trust Daschle that Delay and his cronies won't be able to gum up the works on Wednesday.

It would seem that what they are doing is incredibly unorthodox, though. The resolution they are using isn't defined in the Thomas glossary, and they are passing a bill but at the same time amending it to be sent back to the House for correction. There is something very strange there.

I don't expect the final vote on this until after 11pm...

When I was watching the House version of this earlier today, on Dem representative was objecting to the fact that the President would have 10 days to look over the legislation while they, the legislators only had hours.

So, why is it so pressing to pass it if the Pres has 10 days after they both pass it? How can it relate to Sunday - which is definitely NOT 10 days?

Anybody know?

"The jig is up" kind of thing. And they already know that the House will remove it. One can only hope that this is what occurred.

if a staff Member can create their own legislation sure nobody knew, sure it was an oversight (sarcasm).

Love that Sen. Byrd. Give'em hell, Bob!

It sounded like he said the Senate rec'd a call at midnight last night INSISTING that requirements for competitive bidding on federal contracts be removed.

Sounds like more war profiteering is on schedule, if I heard correctly.

this is unbelievable (I left the room for a sec...sigh). When do Congressional Record transcripts come out?

you guys to keep me updated now.

They passed a unanimous resolution to remove the offending income tax part of the bill. Because the House is not in session they cannot agree yet the omnibus bill has to be passed by Sunday or the government will shut down so they will continue to debate then vote on the omnibus bill sometime tonight but hold the bill, if passed, until the House removes the offending part as well.

If this is what they did, what is to stop the House and the WH from just acting as if the bill had been received as originally proposed while, technically, the bill lingers at the desk?

and just said he is voting no..

:bounce:


Peace?


Trinity :hippie: :smoke: :freak:

he's gonna play a little hard ball.

edit for spelling..

The abortion issue.

Not debated or even acknowleged by the senate, talking about abortion issues that does not recognize women who have been raped etc...

of debate, and no yeilding of time. This debate concerning the abortion issue will not occur on Mon or Fri and not during the late night session, Harry Reid will D will ensure this will be upheld...

:(

and for those who seek abortion it will take longer to find a Dr. BTW,
as I understand it private insurance will no longer have to pay if they choose not to.

I am soooooo sick of this individual morality issue.

Woman gets raped.
When she goes to the hospital she is not given emergency contraception and is given NO INFO about it or her options, as the gov't now PREVENTS her from even hearing about emergency contraception.

DISGUSTING

"You had it. It's your PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY to provide for your child."

If you ever find yourself in this situation (or know someone who is), you can contact Planned Parenthood and they will help you find a doctor who will make sure you get emergency contraception.

www.not-2-late.com

what I understood was that Frist will let the Boxer amendment to repeal that part of the omnibus be "discussed for four hours" by next April. Meanwhile this odious Pro-'life' provision will be adopted.

I am so over Hillary Clinton. No Way will I ever vote for again

So did Hagel, so did Inhofe...

How many Dems are voting aye? I can't wait to see the roll call on this one!!!

Looks like they're not whipping it...

People voting all over the place.

How many of those traitorous Dem's voted yes.

This is unbelievable, Mirkowski just voted aye. I cannot believe this. We need to take back our country.

Dole - aye; Lautenberg - no; Levin - no; Daton (sp?)- no; Shelby - aye; Santorum - aye; Ensin (? who? - no; Dominic NM (sp?) - aye; Murkowski - aye; Baucus - aye; Edwards - no

I'm sorry for the spelling.

with the poison pill abortion item in the bill.

This is only the vote on accepting the conference report, which is pretty much a formality.

The next vote (I believe) will be on the continuing resolution authorizing the government agencies listed in this bill to continue to operate until the bill is signed into law (presumably Wednesday afternoon)

Then the vote on the "annulling" or "enrolling" resolution (I can't find a definition for either term on Thomas) removing the IRS language from the bill.

The final vote will be on the bill itself.

I'm not watching any more. Let my hubby take over the TV.

The graphics on CSPAN2 say this is the vote for the bill (if my eyes are correct)

Do you see that lozenge shaped insert? It says Conference Report...

I think that's what they're voting on.

I am watching over the Internet and the resolution on the graphics is poor, at best.

The schedule I laid out above is what Daschle said way back at 8:15 (which unfortunately is no longer in my TiVo memory)

I don't expect this to be done until close to midnight...

But then underneath the CSPAN graphic indeed says 'voting on the $388 in federal spending in 2005" so I am confused.