NAYSAYERS! how come Ukraine can do it, but we can't? Tell me why that is.

Ukraine is on the verge of overturning a rigged, unfair election. they're actually marching in the streets. why, when we talk about marching in the streets, is it called paranoid and extremist? why can some small eastern Europeam country succeed, and we can't?

please keep this kicked, i want all the 'lets lay down and die' people to see it.

See link to story:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x76066

still trying to fight this in legal terms with courts and lawyers.
maybe its coming. hard to know.

we could be a simmering pot then boiling, or we could be a slow simmer and then just nothing. taken again the corrupt bastards win by default.

the "rule of law" and that we are not like other nations. Rebelling is not seen as something we do. Besides, we are unwilling to sacrifice anything for our vote. If we take a day off of work, we can lose our jobs and with no job, the lifestyle goes. On the whole, e are acorpulant, lazy, decadent people.

Ukraine is about 20 times smaller than the US. I'm in the middle of the country, barely living paycheck to paycheck.. It's currently impossible for me to just hop on a plane to go protest in Ohio or DC. My crappy car would never make it either. Also, our "free" media doesn't cover protests, so they aren't as effective as they are in places like the Ukraine.

they could mass.

we have just a strong enough social net to prohibit widespread discontent. We are able to quell outright rebellion by offering up a little survival kit here and there, i.e., food stamps, emergency shelter, heating assistance, etc, that perhaps are not offered in the Ukraine.

larger extent.

BTW folks, it's not the Ukraine, it's just Ukraine. Same as it's not the Canada or the France. :)

:dunce:

Ukraine has hardly ever been it's own country for many centuries. It lay right in the middle of E-W trade routes and was always getting conquered by one empire after another (Goths, Huns, Poland, Russia, Germans). It was even once part of the Swedish empire (I have noticed some words in Ukrainian that seem to be of Swedish origin, but I'm not a linguist). In the 9th Century Kiev (Kyiv in Ukrainian, now the official language) became the center of the Slavic empire from which Russia was later formed.

Anyway, it was often referred to as a "region", hence the term The Ukraine (meaning "the borderland"), and the name sort of stuck, especially since they were never (except briefly after the Bolshevik Revolution) really independent.

Until 1991 of course! And now they really treasure that independence and want to throw off the yoke from Russia (real Ukrainians, not the forced imports of Russians in most of the eastern and southern cities) and really control their own destiny. They have a long, long way to go, there is so much entrenched criminality (mafia) and injustice that will take a long time (if ever) to weed out. - K

Reverse the players,ie rigged election charges were trumped up by USA/Bush/CIA to put thier guy in charge. The protesters have been duped by the bad guys, but what they are doing is what we should be doing.

media. I can honestly not believe that I'm hearing the problems in Ukraine amount to fraud but the SAME EXACT problems when they happen here are "insubstantial". I'm honestly going out of my head over this one - are they not even listening to themselves any more?

good boy!!! *Co has us eating right out of their hands.

While I am writing letters, keeping the issue alive with my friends and family, donating money to recount efforts, and things like that, I am not in the street. And the reason is, I am not willing to organize a street protest myself, as I really need to be at work earning money to take care of my family, and after work, I really need to be at home with my new baby. I just can't be the one who organizes the effort. If there were a big protest scheduled, I'd attend.

Of course, I'm sure no one waited for a permit in Ukraine.

:(

They think it can't happen here. Ukrainians KNOW it can happen because it was only a few years ago that it was commonplace for elections to be rigged farces.

why, when we talk about marching in the streets ...

Talk versus action.

The Ukranians didn't just talk about marching in the streets, they actually did it, and in huge numbers.

--Peter

I've only heard of 2 protests. Maybe we should try setting up protests in the state forums.