Dean for DNC Chair?

Garnering support from congressional heavyweights appears to be part of the strategy of many of the potential candidates. Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean has been aggressively courting congressional supporters for several weeks. His prospects seemed to improve when Vilsack said he wasn’t interested in the job, according to Democratic strategists.

Dean has run into opposition among some congressional leaders who are demanding that he foreswear running again in 2008. Dean has been coy in his response to those lawmakers who want an assurance that he won’t mount another bid, lawmakers say.

Doubts about Dean’s own ambitions appear to be hurting him in the House. “It’s just an obvious conflict of interest,” said Rep. Al Wynn (D-Md.).

http://www.thehill.com/news/11242004/kerry.aspx


I read here that he publicly said he wasn't going to try for the job. Obviously, however, that's not the case, as he's been working to get it for weeks. But he wants to use it as a stepping stone: he refuses to put aside his own ambition, even though doing so would put him in a better position to become DNC chair. A different kind of politician....

candidate at once.

He should at least promise that if he becomes DNC chair and then decides to run for president, he'll step down.

Surely there is some woman, maybe even a hard slogging liberal woman of color, or Hispanic ancestry.

Would be the perfect antidote to the white male elitism that has pervaded party chairs lately!

And, it may not go over as well attacking a woman, especially a woman of minority status.

Especially if she is a very talented leader.

Any thoughts?

who is seeking the job.

Then there's Donna Brazile who I wouldn't want. I have no horse in the DNC race though, I am paying more attention to who will run for senator against Senator Allen.

the past 4 years.

Obviously, it could have existed without my knowledge, but I doubt it was a major factor in the election.

He gets the job in 2005, holds it for one year, and then resigns to chase after the presidency? It's absurd. Especially when you consider he'd probably be using that one year to further his own presidential ambitions instead of building the party.

Fuck him.

I want someone in there who's working for my interests, not their own. I also want someone in there for longer than a year.

Double fuck him.

I knew in the primaries he was a cheap trickster who always wanted everything both ways. He was the "liberal savior" who was actually the moderate. He was the anti-war guy, who was actually for every war except this one, which he was also sort of for. Now he wants the DNC chair, but he refuses to promise not to run for the presidency if he gets it. That's one of the things that gets me. He could make the promise, and if he doesn't get the chair, run in 2008 free and clear. But he won't do it. Why? Because the only reason he wants to be DNC Chair is for his own selfish interests.

Vilsack had the stones to make a decision and stick to it. He could have pulled a Dean and used the position for his own ambitions, but he actually has some integrity. Dean has none at all.

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"mate." Nothing was "made up." If Dean wanted to be DNC chair for its own sake, he would commit himself to the position and forsake 2008. Vilsack was faced with that choice and honorably decided to free himself for the presidency. Dean won't do it. What's the logical reason? Because he doesn't care about the position, except for what it can do for him.

Mate, in the past you have made allegations regarding the mendacity of Vermont's most famous doctor; dark tales of an un-repentent evil doer, who feasts on the blood of his enemies. Now, let's be honest amongst ourselves, you were as wrong then as you are know.

This is laughable. Not only I, but many other people pointed out Dean's many lies, his flips, his flops, his self-serving charlatanism. Now I was "wrong?" Of course I was. Even here, we have another prime example of Deanism. He tells his followers he isn't pursuing the DNC chair position, when he has been lobbying for it for weeks. I suppose that's not mendacious in Deanland, though. Anyone else would be called a liar and deserve it; Dean, however, defies such facile labels.

Oh yeah, who is he lobbying? Those spineless cockroaches in Congress! Almost too rich.

He was a self serving liar then. He's a self serving liar now. DFA is nothing but a vehicle to serve his own ambitions which, fortunately, look as if they will never be realized. Democrats have been being branded liars and flip floppers long enough; the last thing we need is to put forward such an obvious liar and flip flopper in a visible position. No wonder Rove still has a hard-on for this clown.

because he was polling behind Dean amongst members eligible to vote. He did not suddenly have a crisis of conscience regarding his current job as Iowa Govenor and withdraw himself. He saw that he was going to get his ass kicked by Dean ( and by association so was Kerry ).

Dean supporters know full well what he is doing with the DNC chair. It is a question of positioning right now. The spinless cockroaches remark was aimed at the Republicans ( and their Democratic sycophants, I will admit ) and not the main body of House Democrats. Seeing as Tom Delay ( R - V. Corrupt ) is a former bug exterminator the insult makes sense. Not one of Dean's better moments, I will grant you but hardly the psychodrama you are imagining.

Your not giving any examples in your post. Would I be out of order for suggesting that, in fact, all you are offering is billious opinion. Your invective is colorfull, I will grant you, but that it all it is.

As I said before, the fact that you do not like Dean is fair enough. But stop making shit up, mate. Just looking after your reputation. ;)

He was afraid of Dean, just like everyone else is. Wish someone actually covering the story, you know, the people who actually have real information, had put that in print somewhere. Not that you aren't credible or anything.

to be honest. There was a poll done of 155 members of the DNC and Dean came out ahead of Vilsack; that was why Vilsack withdrew.

No one said anything about Vilsack withdrawing because of that poll (except for you), and in fact, Vilsack was the favorite from what I've read, since he was being asked to run by several party bigshots (not just Kerry). These positions are generally chosen after bruising infighting and power brokering, not a normal vote. Polls are next to meaningless. Except when one is desperately trying to cover for a rather egregious example of selfish behavior, that is. Then they can come in handy.

sniffed the wind and turned tail. I just happen to believe them. I know he has been was the chosen one of the Party Brass but that did not seem to help his case. I do not think the brass have quite the credibility they once did.

What is the selfish behaviour?

Holy Toledo.

an insult. Seeing as you have provided no example; and you question my credibility. oy ;)

The examples have already been out there. Over and over throughout the thread. You've had the opportunity to say something constructive, and have thus far failed to take advantage of them, choosing instead rambling appeals to make DU a better place and the like.

my rambling appeals, on this thread, were for you to stop making shit up to feed your hatred of Dean. If I ever make an appeal for DU to be a better place you can trust me when I say this my prose will be quite pointed.

Personaly, after yet another electoral defeat, this sort of intra-party fratricide serves nobody but the Republicans and their fellow travellers. We can do better than that.

is having a chair of the party who cares about the party first, not their run in 2008. Topic. You. Stay. On. It.

Oops! I mean, get on it.

Prove that Dean is only out for his own interests. You have repeated this allegation throughout this thread but not once have you offered anything in the way of evidence. Not once. Now, I ask you this: Prove your allegation.

The head of the DNC has absolutely NO POWER to make any Dem do anything. The idea that Dean as head of the DNC will somehow be able to change what elected Dems do is ass-backwards.

The head of the DNC WORKS FOR those elected Dems, and not the other way around.

Did McAuliffe ever shut Kucinich up? Did he shut Dean up? Did he shut Sharpton up?

The DNC head has NO power to make an elected dem do anything.

?

think about it.

:tinfoilhat:

that is opinion and conjecture.

wouldn't you say?

It is poorly formed opinion and egregious conjecture from start to finish. ;)

Deanite A pops up and makes a statement, and Deanite B pops up to agree with him. Neither Deanite has done anything but embarrass themselves in their attempts to defend the Dear Leader, but they sure have the "Amen" thing down.

But it's not a cult -- really it isn't.

we could just be sharing a moment of schadenfreude? ;)

Vilsack and "everyone else" is afraid of Dean! Well, they damn well better be - bout time they started wising up.

We're comin' to kick their asses from the ground up! Those worthless, spineless sell-outs, clinging to power by kissing GOP ass, are going to shape up or be replaced by real Democrats - we've had enough!

Toby?

Really now.

I been takin' lessons from Skittles!

Skittles!

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These congresspeople made it all up.

are these. Only one is quoted. Obviously if Dean runs for DNC Chair he will not run for for president in '08, that is why he is still considering what he wants to do. Anybody can see that. The DNC just as obviously didn't want Vilsack, especially if he was just going to be Kerry's toadie.

Dean has run into opposition among some congressional leaders who are demanding that he foreswear running again in 2008. Dean has been coy in his response to those lawmakers who want an assurance that he won’t mount another bid, lawmakers say.

Lawmakers is plural.

Kind of getting scary here.

are you telling me that you believe everything you read written by reporters? Do you believe everything that has been written about Kerry? or Clinton? or is it that you only want to believe everything that is written about Dean that might put him in a negative light? I can gurantee you that if Dean does run for DNC he will pledge to serve the entire four year term. Yes, you may have missed that in your rush to judgement, but DNC chair is a four year term. My suggestion to you, which you will probably ignore,--is to wait and see what he decides to do. I just can't understand people who get all out of sorts over Howard Dean, a strong Democrat who actually fights the republicans and has raised tremendous amounts of money to elect other democrats.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

of what several say. It saves space and avoids confusion.

And if Dean plans on serving the full term, he would have said so instead of playing "coy" games, as described in the article. That's kind of the point of all this. Or did you even bother reading the article before jumping in?

man you sure like to stir things up first with Kerry running a terrible campaign and now on this. It does appear that you do believe everything you read.

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critically-ailing party. Unless they enjoy having themselves evicerated. He gave 'em a much-needed backbone transplant awhile back. Seems rejection has started to set in, though.

For the RNC!

The Poster Boy Karl Rove wants.

No Thanks!

and NOT the other way around. As head of the DNC, Dean's ability to to give "a much-needed backbone transplant" will be somewhere around "zilch"

But the Dems he'll be working for will be able to shut Dean up. I have no idea why Dean supporters would want Dean to SUBORDINATE himself the the DNC, unless it's cluelessness.

How many years does the DNC chair serve anyway?

If he wants to run for president, he's probably better off trying to get an ally in as DNC chair and continuing his good work with DFA for the next couple of years.

If he decides he doesn't want to run again--or he's not comfortable doing what it takes to win--then he might be just what the Democrats need to give them a boost of ideas and energy.

It's a long way off and way to soon to start campaigning. How can Dean or anyone else know how things will pan out in 3 years?

There is no reason for DFA to fold if he becomes DNC chair. DFA is not Dean. DFA is the members.

first Wednesday of each month, there will be a conflict.

DNC meet ups? Did you mean DFA meet-ups? Sorry but I don't see a problem there either. DFA is not a for profit business, it is a just a way of supporting and encouraging grassroots democrats to get involved in politics and run for office. Is that mission incompatable with the DNC? If that is the case then we are in more trouble than I thought.

Wednesday of every month, people would have to choose which Meetup to go to.

I wasn't being serious. Obviously, if Dean became DNC Chair and started Meetups, he could use another day of the month.

He loves Howard.

first only one congressional person is mentioned. Second, you say that you've read "here for weeks" that Dean is not interested in the job. That is not true. He is interested in the job and he is interested in running for president--just like Kerry obviously still is interested in running and Vilsack may also be. From everything I've read Dean is conflicted, he has still not officially thrown his hat in the ring. If he runs for DNC Chair he will not be a candidate for president--that is clear and one of the reason why he has not fully committed to the DNC race. He is not only going to give it a year and quit--there would be too much criticsm of that for him to overcome. In the meanwhile just in case he does run he is gauging support. Lots of things are going on behind the scenes. Dean may just want to run DFA and strengthen that organization and then prepare for a race in '08.

We're all on the same side here and I'm positive everyone will do the right thing, whatever that may be.

one you linked? C'mon.

Listen to this crap:

Kerry’s attempt to play kingmaker was met with a range of reactions, from polite courtesy to private derision, among lawmakers and aides.

Basically, this gossip column exists in order to rip Kerry to pieces. It only throws in some jabs at Dean near the end.

You should know better than this, BB.

a little more thoroughly. I also suggest you look at the contributors.

By the way, are you accusing them of making the whole thing up, quoted congressman and all?

Vilesack didn't quit because he couldn't run for president in 2008. If you'd read what he actually said about the DNC chair position, you'd know that your second post is pure bullshit.

and the actual reasons he quit, are two different things. Donna Brazille indicated he wanted to run for president.

I know, I know, she's a liar, too. They're all in it together.

It is, to borrow from Helen Reddy, you and Dean against the world.

Hey Jude!

What bug crawled up your lower oriface?

Why would anyone be afraid of a populist movement within the democratic party? It is obvious, or should be to everyone by now, that a policy of appeasement and the taking of the "high road" has not panned out. We are now a full election cycle behind where we could have been.

Are you unable to follow the topic of this thread? It has nothing to do with a populist movement, but Dean trying to use the DNC chair for his, rather than the party's, interest.

When you learn to stay on topic, maybe then you can find a way to slip in some babble about populist movements and the like and it won't look so pointless. You took the low road,pal. The low road of changing the topic into the typical Deanite drivel about "afraid" and "change" and "appeasement" -- the usual spew.

Talk about anything but Howie, the guy who isn't running for the DNC chair. Except when he is.

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It is an assertion that is, so far, unproven. You have NO IDEA about whether or not Dean plans to run in 2008. Even people who have spoken to him recently, and know him pretty well have gotten no indication of such. Are you Psychic?

be playing games with serving the full term. There's no other conceivable reason for it. If he won't commit to serving the full term, which he has refused to do so far, then he should remove himself from consideration for the good of the party.

We do not need a chair for one year, only to have him run off to blow more money on trying to be president. In fact, it's absurd on its face: he takes the most influential position inside the party, a position that gives him access to the entire Democratic apparatus, including and especially fundraising, all while he's considering running for the nomination in 2008?

As I said, Vilsack had the stones and integrity to walk away. Dean simply reminded me, yet again, why I have come to loathe him as a lying, self serving creep who will do or say anything to further his political ambitions, even fuck over the entire party by taking a critical job knowing full well he can't commit to seeing it done right. Even that he's trying to pull this shit, even if the Democratic insiders force him to make a decision one way or another and he does so, playing this game was an outrage, the act of someone more interested in his ambition than the good of the Democratic Party.

So goes "Mr. Democrat," the guy from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party.

Yeeehaw.

maybe he wants to put somebody loyal to himself and his values in the job. The could just be deft manouevering on his part: Gather as many votes as he can and then transfer them to a candidate of his choice. He could have is eye of Simon Rosenburgh of NDN as the chair and himself as the king maker.

I think you have an over optimistic view of the nobility of politicians. They do not get where they are without being naive fools.

This really makes sense: he lobbies the "cockroaches" in congress to help him become the DNC chair. They tell him before they will support him, he has to promise to fulfill the term. He refuses. All this so that he can somehow play "kingmaker" for someone else? As you say, "maybe." And "maybe" this wasn't the most ridiculous excuse for bad behavior I've seen yet from a Deanite. But then again, maybe it was.

By the way,

I think you have an over optimistic view of the nobility of politicians. They do not get where they are without being naive fools.

What can I say...

Well, Dean said he wants it, so if he doesn't, he's lying, but that's OK when Dean says it.

And I find it equally incredulous that you would think a Dem that committed to Dean for DNC head would let Dean transfer their support to whomever Dean decided. It doesn't work that way, and to think that politicians would commit themselves in that way reminds me of something you just said:

I think you have an over optimistic view of the nobility of politicians. They do not get where they are without being naive fools.

?

I haven't seen any indication of that yet. See my post #62.

try again

and when he said that he wants the position. From everything else I've read, the evidence shows that he hasn't decided yet.

that's all. I don't see that as playing games.

A) Hasn't read the fucking material; or

B) has loyalty to Dean to the point where it outweighs whatever integrity they started out with.

What is it about Dean that makes his followers distort and make shit up and shut their eyes to glaring facts? I've never seen it in a candidate other than Bush before. Are you folks attracted to Dean because he's dishonest? Is it a quality you admire because you see it in yourselves? This is a serious question.

Dean has been lobbying influential Democrats for weeks now (or are they all lying?). They say, "Before we support you, you have to promise to work out the entire term, which would preclude you from running in 2008." Dean gives a "coy" response in reply.

This is pretty much in the record as fact according to The Hill, who even quoted a congressman.

Now, and here's where you have to think some (I'm such a mean bastard), if Dean were interested in the job, but hadn't made up his mind about taking it, why wouldn't he say something like, "I haven't decided for sure to run for DNC chair, but if I do, I will certainly serve out the term?" Why play games?

The answer is obvious -- except when you've swilled the kool-ade, and believe Dean can do no wrong.

And as for his absurd statement that he "is thinking about it," all he's doing is sticking his finger in the wind to see what he can get out of it. If he thinks the DNC people are stupid enough to give him the chair without making him stick his short ass in it for the full term, there wouldn't be anything to "think" about.

Or gossip columns.

The congresspeople were lying. They always are when it comes to Dean.


But you're not one for conspiracy theories.


All I can do is shake my head in disgust.

The only quote in the article is from ONE congressperson in Maryland, who chimed in with his opinion.

The rest? Unsourced quotes.

And I'm really not happy with the portrayal of Kerry in this article either.

all I can do is shake my head in disgust.

That he's refused to serve the full term, or even that it's been made an issue?

Are you as irritated that Kerry quit his duties in the senate, failed to show up for important votes, and went on vacation (twice) during the "most important election of our lifetime"

I think not.

but when they have info about Dean, it's "Show me the evidence"

Are you as irritated that Kerry quit his duties in the senate, failed to show up for important votes, and went on vacation (twice) during the "most important election of our lifetime"

You osee? S/He believes the reports about Kerry, but doesn't believe the report about Dean

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I don't need to rely on any reports. I still haven't seen any evidence of dean's intentions in the original article, just one opinion from one legislator.

I think you replied to my last post under the wrong user name, sangho.

The "topic" is "Dean for DNC chair."

You may want to confine discussion to an affirmation of your short-sighted judgment regarding the balance of the Governor's self interest vs his already well demonstrated interest in rebuilding the Democratic Party to be a real counter vailing force against the GOP juggernaut, control freak that you are. I ain't capitulating.

A discussion about building a populist movement is highly appropriate and right on point within the context of the overall discussion regarding "Dean for DNC chair."

It's a little gift to Julian Lennon...

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..."

Julien's irrational hatred of Howard Dean is a text book example of what it means to be consumed by the dark side, to the point where rational arguments are impossible.

Maybe something from that great philosopher Popeye will be next?

Do you have any meaningful defense for Dean's actions, or was Yoda it?

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Still waiting for that defense of Dean.

that was a poster called Eric. What exactly are you waiting for?

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Tuesday, November 23, 2004

Elephant in the Room

As many of you know, there continues to be a strong outpouring of support for Governor Dean to run for the DNC Chairmanship. In fact, a great number of our supporters have created websites and petitions urging the Governor to run.

This outpouring of support from the grassroots community continues to amaze all of us at DFA. Since the speculation continues to swirl about what the Governor plans to do, I wanted you to hear first-hand the story on what has occurred up to this point.

Let me begin by saying Governor Dean has not made a decision whether to pursue the job.

Since the election, many people have reached out to us to express their support for Governor Dean. Since so many people that the Governor respects have requested him to give this idea his full consideration, he has been reaching out to different people (both inside and outside the party) to get their thoughts on the party's future.

Governor Dean continues to speak with Democrats with a variety of backgrounds—elected officials, members of the DNC and the thousands of supporters that have written, emailed and called asking him to consider being the party's next chairman.

Whatever the Governor ultimately decides, the DFA community will be the first to hear because you continue to be the foundation of our success. Thanks again for everything you all do and stay tuned!

—Tom McMahon
Executive Director, Democracy for America