If people talked about supporters of other candidates.....

like they do about us, I wonder how it would go over?

On Edit: This is not a leaving DU post, it is a post to figure out why it is our group who are said to be disliked. I doubt that is true, and I consider it a marginalization tactic myself. But it is divisive.

I find it surprising that thread after thread goes on here in which people freely say how awful we Dean supporters are. I never see anyone saying this about Clark supporters, or Edwards' supporters, or the others.

I can not believe that most of you believe that. I really can not believe that. I see other people freely posting criticism of the actions of the party, and no one says "I don't like you."

It is amazing to me, it is stunning. Does anyone else know what I mean? Is this how it is going to be? People can say they don't "like Dean supporters" and just keep on saying it?

It is used to generally describe us, and most of us know why it is being done. It is easy, everyone else does it, and there is no penalty to pay for it.

I have never seen anything like it. It is even worse than the primaries. If I post about the funding of the DLC, then I am trying to destroy the party. No, the party is already so tied up to corporate funding that there is no hope with out a big change. If I say something about how our Democrats are not even speaking of the election, I am hurting good men who have no choice. If I gripe about the vote on the Omnibus bill, then that is wrong as well.

I guess it will continue. It goes on and on thread after thread. I guess it will be up to us whether it is worth it to stay. Whether it is worth it to try to dialogue about the party and its courage and commitment to the people, or to corporate funding.

There are no winners when you put down one group of people. I guess it will go on. I guess those of us who are labeled now as "Dean supporters" need to decide if it is worth it to be painted so. To me it is, and there will be no choice at all. Dean is the reason we stayed with the party this year, after being life-long members. So there will be no problem for me in making a choice.

There are so many of these posts the last few days. I had my husband read some of the threads. He never comes to forums much, so he was absolutely stunned. I think it is a tactic to be sure we are made to feel unworthy. He said I was crazy to take it. Maybe I am.
:shrug:

and reading sporatically. My new passion is a return to Social Responsibility. I've not paid much attention to the "Dean bashing"<---is that what you mean? If so, I'm sorry to hear it.

Dean was a great candidate. I appreciate him more now then I did before. Of course, I've learned a whole lot more through this whole process in the last couple years.

I've always enjoyed chatting with you and reading your posts. I hope you will continue to count me as a friend.

I read something in a book the other day that made my eyes pop. It was the story of the Nixon (bush) years, Watergate, the elections at that time etc. I read that the DNC had leaders in it that manipulated the process so that the candidate of "their choice" were more likely to come out on top. I smell a rat. :wow:

What about who the VOTERS/PEOPLE WANT???? I'm in my next incarnation now. LOL Looking at EVERYTHING differently...it's kinda disheartening.

Though some deny it, and say it is just a forum, it is indicative of what goes on here locally as well. Too complicated to explain, but our DEC has a comfort level....they do NOT want it disturbed.

Actually a lot of the people now are beginning to say that Dean might be ok, it is just his supporters who are the problem. That only makes sense in the context of not wanting opposition or anyone speaking up.

I have been at DU a long time, and this is not a leaving DU post, it is a post about how I never see us posting stuff like that about other supporters.

I think what a lot of people are finding out here is that people have their own agenda and are not tolerate to others and their believes.. I find that sad.. That is the kinda stuff i was trying to get away from..I think some of us are not what we appear to be. Please don't leave because i have only been here for like 3 weeks and have noticed that there are a bunch of good and caring people here..no matter where you go you will find people who try to ruin it for everyone. thats just life unfortunately.. i guess the thing to do is work hard on finding the good people and just avoid the others..hope this don't get deleted before you see it.. a lot of us like you and care about you..

really involved with this campaign until after the primaries so I endorsed Kerry from the beginning but since then I have learned a lot about Dean and I think he is a great person and a good statesman and a great person to lead the Democratic party and to prevent this lean to the right crap that has been going on since Clinton. (Sorry I liked Clinton but he was a centrist not a liberal.)

I'm pissed as well about the dems that are laying down and just taking hit after hit by not opposing anything. The only dems that I have been proud of recently is Dean and Kucinich and in some ways Kerry because while I believe there were massive problems with the election, I also think he lost. He knows he lost and thats the end of it. He is still though trying to fulfill his campaign promises with his new Health care bill.

There is no reason for anybody to put anybody else down because of how they feel about the party. We are all in this together and must work together. Until we do that then we aren't going anywhere.

Ignore the ones that malign your opinions.

I think there won't be much pulling together if it keeps up. It worries me. We stayed on with the party we had been members of, donated to Kerry and supported him. However, now that the election is over there is not a need to keep Dean folks on board.

And so it begins, I think. Post after post, thread after thread. I hope I am wrong.

... slamming other aspects of the party, and in effect those who align themselves with those, yet whine when you get it right back.

For those who don't know, madfloridian frequently dusts off articles about Howard Dean that are several years old, opening old wounds from the primaries, and uses them to bash DU'ers who are more moderate and/or support the DLC.

When those who are being bashed return the favor, he/she plays the victim.

Nor do I attempt to put down their supporters. There is a regular hate Dean movement going on here, but even worse it is going after us.

You may look up every article I post. Every thread. I am posting them for a reason. The main one is the corporate funding of the DLC, and how they organized with that type of funding on purpose.

"For those of you who don't know" could be considered divisive.

This started last year. Someday someone will have to courage to really face up to it. It can't go on this way.

There is a regular hate Dean movement going on here

No there isn't, there is a regular "expose the hypocritical and the 'can dish it out but can't take it' Dean supporters" here.

You may look up every article I post. Every thread. I am posting them for a reason. The main one is the corporate funding of the DLC, and how they organized with that type of funding on purpose

Believe me, many of us have been following your history of divisiveness and the comments your posts bring with them. And remember - as hard as it is for you to understand, NOT EVERYONE agrees with you on this issue and they will voice that disagreement. THAT is what you have a problem with.

Why not get it through your head: If YOU can bash, and inspire the bashing, of moderates, the DLC, Clinton, etc., then you have to be prepared to get it back.

Honestly - since the primaries, how many anti-Dean or anti-Dean supporter threads have there been? Now, how many anti-DNC, anti-DLC, anti-moderate, anti-Clinton threads have been started by Dean supporters?

Ok. Let's do it their way again and not examine. Any attempt to question is called attacking or bashing.

See what is being done here in the name of party unity? That is what is so sad.

Things could be so different. There could be a real discussion on the role of the corporations on the Democrat party agenda this decade. Think of what they have voted on that benefits only corporate America, not the people.

But if you call it bashing and attacking, then you might as well silence me for the new people here to whom you just appealed when you said "to those of you who don't know."

The GOP has put us in a play it safe mode, and now we are stuck there. By making me and other people who criticize look foolish and mean-spirited, you are attempting to silence dissent.

Who creates the divisive threads and posts? You.

Who complains when the targets of said posts fight back? You.

Sounds like YOU want to silence difference.

When you were a kid, I'm sure you hit a few other kids. Were you shocked when they hit you back? Did you complain that they were trying to prevent you from hitting them by hitting you back?

There is no way there will be a coming together of minds. So I will back off.

There is a lot I could say, but it would not make a difference to you.

... you have the right to post pretty much what you want to here but everyone here has the right to rebut.

I don't think attacking the DLC is the same as attacking those who support the DLC. I have read many threads started by the OP and others and only see criticism of the DLC as an influence on our party - not personal criticism of any group of people on DU.

And, as someone who has never publicly supported any of the 2004 primary candidates on DU, I have noticed a large number of posts attacking Howard Dean supporters in the last few weeks. It seems like a fair topic to raise.

...and no one has said it isn't a fair topic to raise.

But point out threads that have BEGUN by attacking Dean supporters.

None?

And I disagree with you that attacking the DLC, moderates, Clinton, etc. is not like attacking their supporters. If you attack something someone believes in, then you are in effect saying that those who believe in it have a flawed opinion - which is an attack.

I did it specifically because the posts are what stand out in my mind - not so much the topic of the threads.

As far as the DLC, I look at them like a PAC, lobbyist, etc., an organization that influences the Democratic Party. So, I have a hard time seeing how my criticism of the DLC as an organization equates to attacks on individuals here at DU.

(edit: late night spelling)