Democrats as abused spouses - The Politics of Victimization

The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can’t stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can’t seem to grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating.

Listen to George Bush say that the will of God excuses his behavior. Listen, as he refuses to take responsibility, or express remorse, or even once, admit a mistake. Watch him strut, and tell us that he will only work with those who agree with him, and that each of us is only allowed one question (soon, it will be none at all; abusers hit hard when questioned; the press corps can tell you that). See him surround himself with only those who pledge oaths of allegiance. Hear him tell us that if we will only listen and do as he says and agree with his every utterance, all will go well for us (it won’t; we will never be worthy).

And watch the Democratic Party leadership walk on eggshells, try to meet him, please him, wash the windows better, get out that spot, distance themselves from gays and civil rights. See them cry for the attention and affection and approval of the President and his followers. Watch us squirm. Watch us descend into a world of crazy-making, where logic does not work and the other side tells us we are nuts when we rely on facts. A world where, worst of all, we begin to believe we are crazy.

http://mathewgross.com/blog/archives/001041.html

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those are not my words -- they are the authors.

Reading is fundamental.

From Atrios:

He Only Hits Me Because He Loves Me

Usually, I try not to step on others' posts by posting my own too soon after theirs. Upyernoz and I just posted threads, but this is too good to keep. Dr. Pendant points to Matthew Gross' discussion of liberals as abused spouses.

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

When you parrot them back into the echo-chamber. Just like I can say the "YOU" I was referring to was the "Hey YOU, Author" not "Hey YOU, poster".

Its meaningless... now do you agree or disagree with the real point I was trying to make?

and not go around throwing flames for no apparent reason.

Whether I agree or not is not important.

I posted this story to get feedback, and to see what others thought.

Directing me to or comparing me with a scumbag POS like Rush Limbaugh is beyond the pale.

I'm seeing more and more people showing up on this board using the slasher technique.

You don't know me. I don't know you. And judging from the way you interact with people, I don't want to know you.

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of her post was so that we don't act like weaklings.

...why is that?

Oh, and welcome to DU.

if it quacks like a duck...

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notice and point OUT the abuse is ALSO classic abuser -- and Republican, and hate radio talk show host and general all-around bully AND fascist -- behavior. For them, you're just supposed to shut up and take it. Standing up for yourself (by confronting the abuse which first and foremost requires ACKNOWLEDGING and NAMING the abuse) is verboten.

I hate these tactics, trying to shame and humiliate people who notice, acknowledge and confront bullying and other bad-boy behavior, telling them that they somehow have no right to do so, telling them that they're just acting like babies, whining and crying, and that it's somehow "victim behavior." Unfortunately, for too many Dems, it works. :-(

The TRUTH of the matter is once you stop and NOTICE you're being abuse and you don't have to take it any more and take the very first step -- acknowledging, naming and confronting -- that is PRECISELY when you STOP being a victim.

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out how to beat the Republicans. It's kind of like the battered wife taking it out on her kids.

they are either utterly incompetent or else they're in cahoots with the republicans.

Nobody should have voted for Bush but his Mom.

Bush is the worst president in the history of the united states and the democrats couldn't beat him?

Sure, blame e-voting. But the Dems have had FOUR FUCKING YEARS to deal with e-voting. They failed.

Sure, blame the media. But the Dems have had FOUR FUCKING YEARS to deal with the media. They failed.

I'm done wiith them. They're a bunch of kiss-ass pandering losers who have no concept whatsoever about what it means to be a leader.

They can all go rot in hell. I'm joining a new party, or I'm gonna make one myself. Why not? We've got nothing to lose. If the Dems can't beat Bush, they can't win against a DEAD MAN.

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You're happy Daschle lost, and are accusing other people of being "reepers?"

IQ contest winners abound.

you can't seem to see things that are not black and white. I didn't think Daschle deserved his office, but only because I thought he wasn't standing up for us. That does not mean that I want somebody worse in office. You took my point and twisted it to serve your own purposes. I know of a certain political party that tends to do that much more than others.

I know of a certain political party that changes the subject and attacks the person instead of dealing with the argument. Sound familiar?

I'm still waiting to find out what "our values" are that Daschle didn't stand up for.

the problem.

The entire South used to be Democratic; now look at it.

Upon signing the Civil Rights acts, Johnson warned everyone that the Democrats were losing the South forever.

I wish you all the best!

You could run Jesus Christ and it wouldn't matter, the Dems never dealt with e-voting and it looks like they're not going to now either.

I don't want to be a member of the Alan Colmes party

The dysfunctional relationship here is between progressives and the Democratic Party. We keep waiting for them to turn into a true opposition party, and making excuses for them when they don't, and waiting and hoping....We know the Rethugs for what they are, bombastic, greedy, corrupt, intolerant. But why are we still dancing with the wuss who can't or won't build opposition to the bully-boys?

and I see tons of it here on DU -- people hoping and waiting and wishing and dreaming and fantasizing for some knight in white shining armor (Kerry) to come "save" them, get serious about the vote fraud and recounts issue for starters. Ain't gonna happen.

Meanwhile these very people are sitting around wasting THEIR lives by WAITING, pinning their hopes on others (Kerry). It's up to us, and the sooner we realize that the better. SHOULD Senator Kerry decide late to come join us, super. But he fer darn shure ain't gonna be leadin' that parade, and precious few other Dems are either (Jesse Jackson Sr being the one possible exception).

This is classic codependence, folks. Get over it. Kerry isn't going to change and become the man you wanted and thought you could change magically change him into when you MARRIED him.

Anybody can see that there is a problem. That's the easy part. But what should we do about it? Saying that we need to stop wasting our lives waiting, and that it's up to us, all sounds quite good but it is excessively abstract.

You are so right! I'm a recovering codependent and stepping back I see that I had an element of waiting to be rescued and therefore was devestated when he wasn't my knight. Luckily 7 years of therapy and an anger about this country being taken over by fascists in front of my very eyes brought me around, fast.

I'm working my ass off now (I actually was before, too) and we will overcome. I'm my own damn knight.

First of all, I will NEVER AGAIN vote for a Ruling Class candidate, unless it is someone extraordinary who will actually hold telling the truth about the ongoing class war and destruction of our Republic as a sacred duty to our Country, We the People and our Constitution. And then DO it, SPEAK it, loudly and unrelentingly.

The Ruling Class faction of the Dem leadership has proven itself useless in turning the tide of the theocratic/corporate fascism that has grown like a cancer for decades with nary a passing comment.

I will no longer compromise with militarism, it is bringing about the end of civil rights and rule of law. This is utterly unacceptable, and no one can tell me otherwise.

I found a profound (in my mind, anyway) response to the original "Victimization" piece in the blog comments.

It is this: thank you mel, for your analysis.

the demands for new leadership, and the disappointment (almost to the point of a sense of betrayal) in kerry, mcauliffe, carville and shrum some have described... leads me to suggest slight reframe of the abusive family dynamic.

while the abusive father role is played by the rnc/bush/rove et al. - the mother who can't or won't protect her family from the abusive father is the current dnc leadership.

if we continue to see ourselves as children in this dynamic, our only choices appear to be which parent we identify with. or we can stand up, break free and be responsible for creating our own future.

{Posted by selise at November 9, 2004 10:05 AM} (my bold)

Now THAT puts it in nutshell for me!

sw

But it does make some sense considering the circumstances..We must wake up and realize that love, reason, facts, truth, and honor are not what these repubs are about.. The repubs in charge are just bullies and will never stop unless we all stand up against them...They don't care about right & wrong or values.. They care about power, money and implementing their satanist views on the world..We The People must wake up and realize we must stand up to the unethical bullies or things will never change..

Wait a minute. The statement is just relating our political relationship to that of a battered spouse. If you know anything about abusive relationships and see what is going on in politics, you would be able to see the correlation.

We ARE victims, and we have to acknowledge that so we can do something about it. If you don't realize you are in an abusive relationship (and many people don't), you're stuck in it. Like the article said, they have many of us squirming.

should accept responsibility for the denial of and attacks against their civil rights? After all, it is their actions that prompt the banning of civil marriage. I don't see your logic.

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My analagy was in response to the statement "I find it very telling
that you need to consider yourself a "victim" of events, rather than take responsibility for them."

I was talking about how gay people are attacked just for being gay, so why should they accept responsibility for the ignorance and hateful acts of others? Don't get me wrong, gay people should and are doing stuff about it, but it's not our fault. The problem lies elsewhere....

And this relates to this board because democrats are being attacked for their very ideals, beliefs, and actions, and should not take responsibility for the hatred of religious finatics when the problem lies elsewhere. Again, that's not to say dems shouldn't do anything about it.

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I think we both agree about the important thing... and that is that we need to fight.

With that said, you have to realize that you are being wronged and are a victim before you can fight. Otherwise, you turn inward and look at yourself to try to find something wrong, instead of fighting the real problem that has nothing to do with you... like the Republican Party.

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of the Dieblod machines. We have been victimized and we just need to admit it when it happens so we can go after the real problems instead of pretend they don't exist.

Republicans didn't start winning until they began to change peoples minds on important issues. When they were trying to be more like democrats they failed.
We don't need to change who we are. We need to change how other people think.

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I was talking about political attacks, not physical ones. Consider this... I am gay and I have been attacked. I took responsibility for my safety when somebody swung at me and I kicked him in the nuts. Then, I got blamed because as the victim, I was supposed to be hurt more.

My analogy was regarding political stuff, and is not flawed.

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That is why many have started to question what WE did wrong. Should we have compromised our values and supported bans on gay marriage? Should we have supported stem cell research? blah blah blah.

The real question should be *what do we do about Diebold,* or how do we change our message while keeping the same values. When you start changing your positions, it's because you have been politically beaten.

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...and remember, I think we're still on the same team! :)

and what's with the "Democrat" platform?

If we are accpting that was have been hit, we are not saying it is our fault. We are saying don't stay and take more of the same...stop trying to make things right by making the abuser happy. The abuser will never approve. Tell the abuser to go to hell and walk away.

In otherwords stop the politics of appeasement.

We are a well-read bunch. When we find something interesting, explanatory or provocative, we bring it back here. The pack circles, sniffs it, plays with it, then we start howling to tell each other what we think of it.

Then, someone pisses on it and we move on.

But, you are new here, more than a little arrogant, and have yet to learn our ways.

You will in time.

If you are here in good faith. If not, other fates await.

:toast:

What a wonderful illustration :hi:

However, I'm not interested in seeing this poster "evolve".

I've lost two threads due to flame wars from newbies such as him who want to jump right in and hurl insults and throw bombs.

My, my ignore list is growing.

That he is accusing you, of all people, of playing something of a victim card.

Let him. Then you can stomp a mudhole in his ass, walk it dry and never break a nail.

In other news: Why, when writing that part about "pissing on it" was I moved to reference Matcom and Shortbus? ;-)

ROFL! That is exactly what we do!!

the last line... until "we begin to believe we are crazy." reason has no place in political life anymore. democracy: good for ukraine -- bad for US.

the dialectic of victimization is a very interesting game. anyone remember any Frame Analysis here? remember when conservative hated the politics of victimization? we'll they sure turned it on it's head and used it for their purposes.

we ARE being victimized in a very real sense -- and then doubly victimized for being pushed to the margin of our national debate.

so, lets take a cue from therapy. what does the abused do to break the cycle?

IMHO.

The first step to any problem starts with acknowledging that there is a problem.

this is like co-dependency. maybe there's a way to jigger the victim recovery program for this.

this is really working for me as a conceptual framework. it's like the 2nd stolen election was "hitting rock bottom."

here's the victim recovery program (I think i've seen this here before -- i had to look it up):

Denial Stage. The victim is relatively brain dead here. Your energy is spent on justifying your GOVERNMENT, working overtime to "make him or her happy," and hiding the truth from yourself. You often pay with physical and / or emotional symptoms. Your self-esteem is non-existent. 


Ugh! Shock & Disbelief Stage. The victim doesn't know which end is up! You have just learned about abuse and are shocked to realize that your relationship may be abusive! You need validation and support. You are just learning to trust your senses.

Anger Stage. There is a sharp sense of outrage over what has been happening! Your victim's buttons are all showing! You are angry, defensive, blaming, and full of guilt now - and you are internally fighting all of it! If you are at all impulsive, without realizing, you are likely to act out and behave as abusively as your abuser!  (LETS BREAK STUFF)


Warning: Don't get stuck in this stage. Your job is to listen to your anger's message, but chill before you act - so that when you do act, you act effectively. Watch the defensiveness. You don't need it - since there is nothing to defend!


Personal Responsibility Stage. Finally. You are very clear on what's going on, you are able to stand up to your abuser. You may have left. You have developed adequate self-control skills and are less likely to be provoked! 


Above all, you increasingly recognize that you are in control of your life - and that you do not have the power to make another person happy or miserable. You realize that your abuser is a victim too, but you know it is up to them to fix themselves - if they want. You feel great about yourself!

now, let's break stuff!!!! :D

One posters sees fit to note the resemblance of the current power structure as a dysfunctional spousal relationship via an article. Another poster set forth an effort to reject the notion and tell the original poster that the reading was cold and the windows are still not clean enough.

most notably, the "change your avatar" thread.

hmmmm....sounds like a serial troll to me. :nuke:

funny and interesting

Tom Daschle, the only incumbent to lose a senate race, lost because he was painted as an obstructionist. But the Democrats, and Daschle, are savaged by halfwitted clowns like this day in and day out for "walking on eggshells around Bush."

Some of these people need some abuse -- it might knock the ability to think into them.

than Tom Daschle anyway. He deserved to go.

But I don't.

I just wish we had somebody who stood up for our values a little more.

Yet again, something tells me that your "our values" are not my "our values."

come crawling out of the woodworks.

Enjoy John Thune. Whatever else he is, no one will mistake him for a "prairie Lieberman.'

I'd take a weak Daschle any day over an asshole Thune.

Unfortunately, Daschle's loss was the only way we could change Dem leadership in the Senate.

I am not wishing Thune on anybody... just saying that Daschle wasn't really worthy of the position because he didn't fight very hard for our interests.

that said, I was sad to see him go, we need all the seats we can get.

Daschle coming from a bright red state should have never been our party leader in the senate, he's an all right guy but our party leaders should never come from states like South Dakota, Daschle had to kiss Bush's ass on some issues, its a shame he's gone though, hopefully we'll regain some of those seats we've lost. Really is a shame.

But I guess anyone who feels that way is a cheap shot artist.

He lost his seat for being labeled an "obstructionist," but he's a quisling.

Black is white. Freedom is slavery. War is peace.

if he had been he might have won. He is the perfect example of someone who has been victimized. He kept trying to placate the abuser and they beat the crap out of him anyway.

He lost his seat for being labeled an "obstructionist," but he's a quisling.

Exactly. He's a quisling who, as a reward for his appeasement, was labelled an "obstructionist."

wouldn't the Republicans have wanted him to stay exactly where he was? If Daschle really was a problem for the Democrats, would the Republicans have worked so hard and spent so much money to get him out?

I know it's foolish to use reasoning on this issue -- why, you could say it's almost Daschle-esque -- but it seems rather obvious that if Daschle were really a detriment to Democrats, the Republicans wouldn't have made getting rid of him their primary congressional focus. But that's just my take on it. I'm sure there's some tough guy take on it that us DLC/corporate whore/war mongering/pink tu tu Democrats are simply too spineless to understand.

After reading this article at Gross's site, I posted it a few weeks ago on General Discussion. It dropped like a stone. It is an important insight, and I'm glad to see it being read.

Whatever one calls it, abuse--propaganda--whatever, the aggressive verbal violence is abuse. How we respond depends of course on our own control mechanisms or how "hip" we are to the destructiveness of the entire cycle.

Possible responses include: escalation of the aggressive abuse--name calling, the kneejerk striking back. Or we can play "gotcha" trying to verbally box the abuser into a corner. Some of that going on this morning on the gasbag shows: Nanananaaaaa! Your not Christian because you ignore the poor! True, but will it stop the attacks? Then of course there is the silent, stalworth response: I'm not talking because you are full of crap. Finally, there is the poor me reaction of the knocked down and seeking sympathy.

Will any of these controls work? The best, and I think the only way, to stop an abuser is to call them out: "This is abuse; I know what you are doing; I'm free to go about my day; I will help you or talk to you if that is possible."

Take the wind out of their sails...maroon them in their sea of bile...frustrate the shit of them, but don't play the game.

Cat, I think you qualify. :D

*gasp*

I'm honored!! :D

And like most victims, we accept their 'blame'. And despite the fact it is widely contested that we lost the election due to widespread Election Fraud and voter suppression...I keep reading on many of the threads suggestions and questions as to how we can change our Party platform, or candidate, or whatever in order to win in 2008?!!! That implies we lost because of something 'wrong' with us, NOT because of the Election Fraud which we also acknowledge?!!!

Like most victims, we're caught in this schizophrenic divide of simultaneously believing what our abuser tells us about ourselves, while ALSO secretly knowing that the TRUE problem lies in THEIR lies about us, and themselves as well. :crazy:

is to refuse to play their game. Stand up to them. Don't accept their lies & excuses & promises. Don't cover up for them. Don't make excuses for their bad behavior. Don't let them blame others for their own inadequacies. Refuse to accept responsibility for their abusive & antisocial behavior.

This is exactly why it infuriates me when Democrats insist that we must "move to the right," pander to extremists and compromise our own morals, ethics & values. "We'll never win again if we don't change," they whine. Agreeing with the "abusers" that the problem is with us & constantly promising to give up our own values & "change" in the hope of winning their favor is anything but beneficial. THAT is behaving like victims.

We need to quit 'accomodating,' and start 'asserting' who we are. And that begins HERE with re-claiming the Election, the Media, our Government,and our lives!
It does NOT begin by planning on some future election, or future campaign! That transfers our energy out of the power 'present tense' (the 'now'), and shifts us off-balance to unknown future ALSO controlled by THEY if we don't assert NOW. :kick:

I've printed a hundred flyers and I will print hundreds more and they will go out into the world and spread the meme. We are the Democrats and we are good.

I'm at work so I can't go looking for the link, but I really think Brand Democrat is the way to go. It reframes our positions, pithily, in a way that the average Joe can say, hey, I believe that!

I'm not interested in being part of the "abused spouse" party.

I'm ready to be part of the "kick their ass" party.

Whatever that is.

...for this very reason.

I have it in my personality to forgive people who fuck me over- but not after they do it HUNDREDS of times.


Repubs have no problem calling us "liars" "traitors" "communists" "elite" and making it stick.

When will DEMS learn that the MEDIA and the GOP are out fucking ENEMIES and that they should be treated that way???

WHEN?? Dont give me that rope a dope shit either- fucking WHEN???

I've been waiting for YEARS to see some kind of vindication- WHEN???

I hear you loud and clear Dr. Fate. Another thing, if we want to look strong enough to protect the country, wouldn't one think we should be strong enough to stand up for ourselves?

Who wants to belong to the "Roll-over-and-let-them-kick-us-one-more-time" party?

If bullying tactics are used against me to try to force me to cower in silence, I will call out that person. It is very difficult to continue to go along with an organization that permits that to happen. Every Dem that comes within 100 feet of a mic should tell it like it is: bullying behavior is a form of aggression. If they want to talk values, morals, and public policy, we win. Name calling and slurs and we will call them what that are: abusers.

The "Swiftboater" attacking a person's war record and making false claims was a form of abuse.

WE are the ones volunteering our time and money.

I'm talking BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS.

I've failed fucking classes I've put so much time into DEMS.

But they REFUSE to listen to their hardworking base.

I'm not talking "Liberal" here either- I'm a moderate-so its not about moving to the left for me- its about standing up for the TRUTH. I'm talking SIMPLE shit here.

I just want DEMS to STAND UP and start TELLING THE TRUTH about the criminal LIARS in the white house.

How many more YEARS do I have to wait to get a fucking Harry Truman or an LBJ who will STAND UP AND GIVE THEM HELL??????

With few exceptions (Dean, Clark, Sharpton, Kucinich) they treat us like we are an alien species, the radical fringe.

I don't know if I'm a moderate, I am just a person who is paying attention and knows right from wrong. Labels don't make it. I'm sure we could agree on a wide range of issues, hell maybe all of them, maybe not. But the core of our being would reveal a sensitivity to the less fortunate, a yearning for social justice, in fact, the kind of idealism written in the US Constitution.

In the end, I want to pay our bills, live our values not just talk about them, and leave a legacy of a clean environment and the rule of law as put forth by the Constitution. Asking too much? Too far left?

I donno...oh yeah_I believe in one person-one vote and a voting system that is both transparent and verifiable. Geeesh! I think that is very patriotic, apparently I labor under some crazy notion.

to stop blaming ourselves for our support of pro-choice, or gay rights, to stop apologizing and trying to appease, to stop allowing the Repukes to run roughshod over us and convince we aren't worthy.

Apparently some in this thread don't understand what the article is even about.

Thank you for posting it, CatWoman. Very empowering and very though-provoking, indeed.

..this article is not about the DEMS at DU, or the DEMS who knocked on doors & donated money-

It's about the DEM "leaders" who care more about what Judy Woodruff or Rush Limbaugh says about them than they care about us.

instead of having these milktoast GOP-lite motherfuckers handed to us.

Screw that.

I've follwed your posts- and I share your frustrations.

I've tried "working within the party" for years to get some change-but they dont care.

They care more about what Bill Frist & Wolf Blitzer says about about them than their own ground troops.

They USE us and they dont even throw us a bone. Bush throws PLENTY of bones to his RW Christian Base. That is why they continue to campaign & donate money to them.

since this one is absolutely useless.

The democratic party leadership has "led" us right to the bottom of the barrel.

That is, the good old days when Democrats were no afraid of the media and the republicans.

I'm not even a Liberal- I just want old fashioned, Harry truman "Give them hell" politics.

I'm not asking for much- I want MY PARTY to do two fucking things.

1. Tell the complete, unvarnished TRUTH about the dishonst, criminal activities of Bush and the media, thus destrying their political capital.

2. LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN to the god damn people who volunteer their money & time to the party- or go get "swing voters" to do your bidding.

We need to clean them ALL out and replace them.

How are we supposed to do that?

We don't even have any say in who the party "leaders" are!

I have no patience for them. I think it would be easier, and quicker, to start from scratch than to try to reform this party.

FAULT, however, their abuse IS our problem.

Until we stand up to unacceptable behavior, those who are inflicting their intolerable abuse will continue to behave (to put it mildly*), unacceptably.

Unfortunately their unacceptable behavior now stands to put our entire planet and survival in jeopardy. Thats HOW important it is for us to stop the abusers.

The longer abusers are able to perpetuate the lie and abuse, it is more difficult to "leave" or to stop their abuse. In any case with an abuser, there is no alternative but to stand up and face them head on.

Case in point the 2000 election versus the 2002 election versus the 2004 election. Each one of these elections was illegal and illegitimate, and with each one it became easier for them to engage in fraud, especially with the onset of HAVA and electronic voting which placed the ease of fraud on a whole new level creating fraud without "fingerprints".

When we stay in denial and blame ourselves, like the abused victim, it becomes more difficult to stop the bully. That is why we must help others to break out of the denial and we must get out of the denial as well. I suggest sending articles to friends and discuss with them effectively why the media is not a legitimate form of honest information. Americans must break away from their addiction to the "box" (television). It has raised many of us, and it has NOT been a good parent.

Most importantly we have to learn to channel our courage, to know we are right in upholding the Constitution and it is not us who are acting insanely. The truth is sanity, and lies are the insanity. That is why things have seemingly become so insane. Many of our leaders are lying to us and to themselves.

and the pro-choicers and did everything that this article talked about.

Yet, I agree with your point that not ALL Dems have run around apologizing and rolling-over.

The so-called Dem leadership sure has, though. :puke:

And I've been involved with DEM organizations in GA and in CA.

and well worth considering.

so called election, cuz that was simply stolen. But, yeah, it was a violation and, you're right, dems rather than say: "How dare you" say "If I only had dressed better, put some more makeup, maybe I wouldn't have been abused.
Oh, well, let's go to Victoria's Secret, het ready for next time....

I love this because it is so true. Stop being the victim, but first admit you have been one. Stop playing the game by their rules.
The comparison to verbal and mental abuse women suffer (and men too) a the hands of a spouse is the perfect way to understand what has been happening.

Spousal abuse is not a good comparison, IMHO

The brand (Democratic Party), once popular, is now considered damaged goods among more than 50% of the US population. If the party was a consumer product, a Madison Ave advertising firm would dump the offensive brand, and repackage it with only the good ingredients and omitting the offensive ones. This is the only way that will work. As Jesus said, "you cannot put new wine into old wine-skins."

The Republicans have done an extraordinary job of demonizing democrats for the last 30+ years and the Dems have done next to nothing to effectively counter the attack. Most dems can't even figure out how "liberal" became a dirty word. Face it, the brand is damaged goods.

The awful truth is that is the end result of Democrats imposing civil rights, gun control, legal abortion, ban on school prayer and other "values" on states that didn't want it imposed on them.

A new progressive party with no national agenda on such issues is what is needed. It will be a bitter pill for many of us to watch helplessly while our sacred cows are slaughtered in the Red states, but better that we preserve our rights at home than have them plowed under by the right-wing agenda.

Once the decision to refuse the abuser is made, there is hope.

You stand tall, with 56 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door, taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The new life is hard. But it’s better than the abuse.

absolutely years, been
over the edge for yonks, been working me buns off for bands...

I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even
if you're not mad...