The next Democratic primary is going to be a doozy !

It will not be for the faint of heart. Those candidates that have problems with a little heat might want to stay out of the kitchen. Because it's going to be a battle for the soul of the Party. Let the best man or woman win. Somebody put a bridle on that radical machine. :)

Chairmanship of the DNC!!!!

are going to "circle their wagons" to help the party choose the "right" candidate. I am convinced that this is what happened in the last primary. Dean scared a lot of the elitists and so they chose to latch on to Kerry.

Democratic elite is a right-wing construct. The true elite are the corporate moguls and fat cat country club republicans that were rewarded for their campaign contributions with tax cuts that the people that really needed didn't get. The top 1% got nearly 50% of the tax cut while the bottom 60% got only about 6%.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Hell, this board is full of "Democratic elites." Not that they are, just that they think they are. The 'I know what's best for you' crowd. The corporate moguls and country club republicans OTOH are nothing but a bunch of selfish pigs.

should be fun.
The Democratic Primary is what forced the media to finally look at Bush critically. I'm looking forward to seeing some ideas discussed that the corporate media typically tries to ignore.

If the stars line up for HRC, '04 will look like a long one by comparison. She has everything going for her. After 3 more years of *, every liberal will be desperate for a change and will be willing to compromise a little something, just to back a proven winner.

and how far she's willing to go to support her recent "moderate" agenda...

And if she wins the nomination we will be in for another 4 years of Republican hell.

Hillary was once a supporter of Richard M. Nixon.....

You're right. But I never said that she was. But if she declines to run for the Senate in 06, piles up huge favors in the meantime, has Time/Newsweek/NYTimes/WaPost in her corner (in addition to the squirrel whores like CNN), who's going to be able to stop her. DK?

It's my gut feeling that Kerry is done. One thing that didn't come through this last cycle enough is the man's basic decency. THK is going to be 69 in 08, and there's no way that he is going to put her through it again. I'd bet on it.

from Dick Morris a former Clinton advisor that Hillary controls something like 90% of the money involved in the Democratic Party? (correct me if he's wrong) Plus the fact that she is the only democratic "POSSIBLE" who is already getting exposure by the media. If both of these are true she will be near impossible to beat in the primary. If she wins the primary she will still lose the general election, IMO. I would love to see her win but I just dont see it happening.

*

I really dont like Sean Hannity but for some reason I still tune in. Sometimes I feel like jumping through the screen and knocking all his teeth out and ripping his head off. Especially last night because Ann Coulter was on and she drives me crazy. I feel like ripping her hair out and making her eat it.

<<I feel like ripping her hair out and making her eat it.>>

How would that be punishment to her? Her hair is straw, and she's a cow...hell, you'd just be giving her nutritional sustenance.

:evilgrin:

I wouldn't think he'd have the very, very best sources among the Democratic insiders these days.

I hate the fact that they are so sure it will be her, because they know she probably, sorry to say, would be the easiest dem to beat.

Hillary might get 45% of the general election vote, if she's lucky.

Hillary Clinton is by no means solely responsible for a cashflow now totaling in the tens of millions of dollars and divided amongst 3 separate Congressional Committees and dozens of outside interests. All together last year that figure related to somewhere in the range of 350 million dollars (Not including labor).

So, you're wrong.

He's a sleazeball.

She was 'Clean for Gene."

She worked as an assistant on his possible impeachment, for the Prosecuting Democrats!

I know Hillary was a Goldwater Republican. She'd have been too young to be a Nixonian in 1960, but had she flipped from the Republicans to the Dems between 1964 and 1968?

eom

Hillary runs - she wins in a walk.

But I think she has a decent chance of a general election win too.

You think the radical right wing were "foaming at the mouth" at the prospect of a liberal achieving the WH, they'll pull out all the stops if a WOMAN has a chance.

They'll play nicey nice and her being a centrist will draw the party in ... THEN on the run up to the election she will be handed her political a**.

No, as much as I would love to see a woman President, now is not the time (give it at least another decade).

2 ppl with low post counts saying hillary has it sown up smacks of tucker carlson rah rahing over al sharpton, if you catch my drift ;)

This year was ripe for the success of a reform/populist movement. Several of those candidates were in. One became the frontrunner, and had oodles of cash.

But when the deal went down, the average Democrat primary voter throughout the land creamed them. Why? Because the establishment infrastructure (NYTimes, WaPost, etc. etc.) controlled the story. Period.

In my original post, I said that Hillary would win easily, if certain things fell into place (she must want to, Bill must not have a medical crisis at that time, she must probably forego a Senate run, etc., etc., etc, . . .). And that is for one reason: she would be the establishment candidate, with all their decisive backing. She also has still has a wellspring of support for her past work on women's issues. To compare her to Sharpton is the mark of a political nincompoop.

due to name recognition. Hillary is way too divisive to win the nomination. If you think the swiftless vets were hard on Kerry, do you really wanna relive the impeachment? I think Biden or Edwards have a heck of a lot better chance than Hillary, if they run.

With the current batch of voters, the anointed mainstream candidate still has a H-U-G-E advantage in the primary process. In 03-04, that candidate was not Joe Lieberman, but the pre-ordained JFK. He used their power overcome a rocky start, and rode their unfair personification of Dean to victory.

In 2007, that candidate (if things align properly in 3 years) will be HRC if she so chooses. That's not a slam dunk. But if she runs against another version of Dean or Kucinich, the primary voters in Iowa, NH, and the rest of the schedule will line up to vote for her. Why? Because they are still swayed by the megaphone of the mainstream press. And anyone who thinks that they will be on the Biden bandwagon instead of hers is, well, . . .

if he runs, she's finished. Clark would take Iowa, hands down. New Hampshire might be close. South Carolina and Oklahoma would finish her.

The day of the Establishment candidate has come and gone with 2004.

He is not made for politics, and she's a fucking shark.

A fully motivated and heavily financed Hillary campaign is unstoppable. :)

what I'm talking about. Clark supporters can and will mobilize this. As far as a shark goes.... well I agree, that's the turn off for most people concerning her. Issues of national Defense, and her Iraq War vote is juicy to say the least.

Do you really belive that Democrats are going to put their trust into someone who voted FOR the Iraq War again in 2008?

Wrong, it was a bad decision, and against someone like Clark, she's toast.

Then there's White Water, and other issues that will seep to the top of the political sewer.

Hillary is not the only shark that can swim in polluted waters.

bankruptcy "reform".

I'll take Clark any day over HRC!!!

Clark paired with another outsider. Hillary is a loser outside of a blue state and she may even have a tough time in NY in 2006. She's the poster child for rethug hate, more so Bill plus she has none of Bill's winning ways like his public, charismatic, people skills. Choosing her would guarantee ANOTHER LOSS with or without the usual repuke cheating.

but don't people have enough sense to see that she would guarantee another Repuke in the White House!

She's not popular among those groups at all. Nominting Hillary would the the one sure fire way to hand the GOP a free pass to the 2008 elections. I think she's a smart and capable woman, but there's no way she could get elected.

... I say with confidence that the right wing will have the working poor republican men "spinning out" beyond belief. Further they will trash her femininity and start all sorts of whisper campaigns painting her as a lesbian.

Oh yeah, Hillary winning the primaries would be the propaganda experts in the Right Wing's most prized WIN-WIN situation. If you want to win the general election in 2008, run Clark or Dean.

These men LOATH powerful women almost as much as they hate interracial dating and gay marriage.

Simply, it won't work. Rove and his compadres will have a field day after the primaries. Big mistake. :(

between now and then. I see no signs of him on the political horizon.

Where is he and what is he doing now? What will he do for the cause between now and the next primary season? Making moeny in the private sector will not make him a better candidate in 08 then he was in 04. He will need to achieve name recognition and some kind of political achievement.

Julie

Today, Wes Clark is scheduled to speak at the Arab Strategy Forum in Dubai.

http://www.dubaistrategy.com

He is presenting the Third Session of Day 1: Security in the Arab World in 2020.

Big Dawg spoke earlier at the same conference--as the keynote.

does nothing as far as leadership of the Dem party in USA in 2004 or for 2008. That is what I am looking for. Never before has the Dem party been in such need of leadership and direction. Helping provide security in the Arab world is about as far removed from those things as one can get.

Not that that isn't a good thing, it's just not what WE as a party need right now.

Julie--looking for a SAKAL

She would lose Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and New Hampshire and get no more states than Kerry got.

I hope our party takes one look at Hillary and says, "Holy shit! This is not the way to win the red states.".

I'll defiitely be voting third party.

I think the republican nomination should be even more of a doozy.

A prime example is the Moveon email. Another is the DNC chair situation. The next congressional election, in 2006, will fuel the fire as well.

The Dem primary will probably be the culmination of it.

Good in the long run. It probably should have happened or been anticipated before now.

An older generation is going to have to die off before the newer voters control the party.

Why? Look at who voted this year in the primaries. The average Democrat who picked Kerry instead of Dean was weaned on taking their cues from the establishment media. When the media concocted a caricature of Dean, they accepted it. All of the new variables (on-line fundraising, etc.) made a dent, but were not decisive yet.

The newer generation will be more acceptable to newer forms of communication and will not take advice or marching orders from the editorial page of , say, Washington Post. But until then, there will be more repeats of the 04 primary process in the near future.

There is truth in what you say about media. But the media also charicatured Dean supporters as being mostly young people. All of the candidates had young interns and workers. The house parties, Meetups, etc. that I participated in had very few young people involved, relatively speaking. (They were wonderful and dedicated, but they didn't comprise anything like a majority.)

So no, we're not going to have to wait for people to die off... ;-)

I do think that Deaniacs in general are a curious and creative group. You'll find oldsters blogging and participating in email listserves, etc.. There are people with white hair designing web sites and tabling on street corners.

What I think we're going to see is a real backlash (some of which we're seeing now) to any anti-populist effort on the part of the Dem party. People saw that. Hell, Republicans saw it. There's a huge influx of people who want to make a difference and who want their voices to be heard. The Dem party cannot take them for granted.

Watch what happens during the next couple of years. I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

There was a lot of enthusiasm among the hard-core for Dean and Kucinich. The workers. The contributors. But werent your floored on Iowa caucus night and NH primary night by how easy the average primary v-o-t-e-r went to a previously floundering Kerry?

In the weeks leading up to it, Dean had lost the previously sympathetic press. Instead, he got a drumbeat of negativity from the mainstream press. The average primary voter - an older demographic - lapped up their portrayal to Dean, and instead went to the pre-ordained fallback position, JFK.

I dont see how the next version of Dean/Kucinich does any better, barring economic collapse & nuclear warfare. I wish it were otherwise, but I think that the oldsters are going to have to die off. They swamped Dean this time.

Dean was torpedoed in a concerted effort by other Dems. In addition, the compressed primary schedule really messed things up for the populist vote.

Give it a couple of years.

My husband and I are dedicated Deaniacs. We are 47 and 57, respectively. The most vocal Deaniac on this board is older than we are.

Why do you lump Dean and Kucinich together?

Have you watched the political hacks on C-Span this week for 3 hours arrogantly bragging how they did their dirty work.

David Jones used the words "took Dean down" over and over and over.

And they did. The donors were fellow Democrats, including most of the candidates.

Watch the video. I will find the link. David is 2:58 minutes in.

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=david+jones&image1.x=25&image1.y=9

Annenberg conference

Sure ours is gonna be ugly, but picture the battle between the neo-con fundie wing and the 'normal' republicans.

I think it's going to be truly ugly on both sides.

It might be their '04 primary.... nasty and divisive, with at least one neocon (maybe Condi?), one fiscal moderate, one far right isolationst (buchanan?) and one fundie. Just like we had in the primaries this year, right? :-)

The Neocons have the party sewn up. those that do not get in line right away will be decimated.

That's how they work.

that's how the DLC is trying to make the Democratic Party work.

After all, it's the "General" election that really counts.

:hi:

hehe

The last one was so prepackaged that all it needed was shrinkwrap. Not to mention the repuglite platform and "not as bad as Bush" candidates.

Were you asleep? Every time Kerry would say he'd have invaded Iraq too, only done it better, there was a collective groan from most dems that could be heard in China! It was a spectacular self-emolating pyre that he kept trying to keep lit throughout the campaign. Like watching a train-wreck in slo-mo.

Gyre

...much Like Bill Clinton did. I don't think it will be Hillary, and I don't see how any of the guys from the last round will want to go through that again. I think we need someone fresh. Just my opinion though. I could vote for Hilary, depending on who she picked as her running mate.

He was supposed to be the favorite since he gave the 88 nominating speech and went right onto Letterman (Leno?). If Clinton wasn't the favorite in 92, then who was?

Clinton had pathetic name recognition and was at the bottom of the polling heap for a long time.

I want new blood in the Democratic Party. I'm tired of the pasty-faced, old fart, white men in Congress. An act of god should clear out the dead wood and let's start over.

It seems like it just isn't working.

All that is left is a corpse animated by corporate greed that is designed to fool people into believing that there really is a party that cares about them.

Give it up people, the Democratic party is dead, it has been absorbed into the two party/same corporate master system of government. It is an illusion of opposition, and apparently we're not even allowed to have that illusion anymore, as the party moves ever further rightward.

It is time to abandon the party people, and either form a party of our own, or join one that not only espouse our ideals, but actively works towards them as well. I would suggest the Green party friends.

Let the corporatistas have the Democratic party, what's left of it, to play with, it will keep them out of our hair. But we cannot expect the corporately compromised Democratic party to stand up for us anymore, therefore it is time to move to a party that does, the Greens.

and our 51-49 divided country becomes 51-24-25. Yes, I can see how that would be an absolutely wonderful idea. You go off and work for ideals, and let the Republicans solidify their control over government.

I'm playing for keeps here, and quite frankly it is time for the Democratic party to go down. Those that don't want to work for a real change will either try to keep the Democratic party on life support, an ultimately fail, or will go where their true calling lies, the Republican party. The rest of us will go and build the Greens up to the point where they are THE second party in this country.

The Democratic party has outlived it's usefulness, and it is time for them to go. Time to get rid of the corporate whores, the DINOs and 'Pug lites. Time for real change in this country, and it won't, and cannot be the Democratic party that brings it about.

And quite frankly, judging from the way the Dems are pissing people off left and right, it won't be a difficult objective to achieve.