National ID Cards/ ACLU's Timothy Edgar on "Democracy Now"

Amy Goodman interviewed Timothy Edgar, legislative counsel for the ACLU, about effects of the newly passed monster intelligence bill.

He points out that "one problem with the bill is that it creates what amounts to, in effect, a national ID, and it does this by taking existing state drivers' licenses and federalizing them. It basically puts the federal government in charge of the standards for issuing and designing drivers' licenses."

Edgar goes on to talk about possible use of the new, federalized drivers' licenses to track people. RFID chips could be implanted in the licenses. Congress wasn't willing to go as far as the 9/11 commission recommended, to make licenses like "internal passports," but they've laid the groundwork for that kind of "checkpoint society" in the future.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

(This was just shown on LINK TV and I transcribed from TiVo; the program was broadcast earlier today on LINK and on radio so some of you may have already heard it.)

What about this national ID card thing? Maybe I've missed it, but there doesn't seem to be any talk about it here. Nobody's concerned? Or nobody knows about it?

but it is being put into effect very quietly. A lot of conservatives with a libertarian bent won't like it one bit if they get wind of this.

someone talked about it on television. Naturally, we're unlikely to hear it from MSM.

Pelosi and Reid convinced the other Dems (except for 4 additional House Dems) to back the bill.

Just like the old Soviet Union!

Back in the USSR."

I just wondered what they're saying about it at FR. RWers were nutso over rumors that Clinton would set up checkpoints, etc.

I'm sure Limpballs has them convinced that carrying a passport that GONZALES issued would be great

This sort of thing is pretty much standard (as I'vebeen told at least, sorry if I've been misinformed) in most European countries - it's integrated with passports to ease border crossings within the EU. If we implemented a similar system (one with no RFID tracking of course... ~shudder~), what would be wrong with that?

I fear I may not be saying it clearly. They have this system. No one seems to consider it scary. So why is that system here scary? Or should they be afraid of their system too and just don't see it yet or some such?

Note, I am not at all asking rhetorical questions or attempting to be facetious. I want to know!

to DU! :hi:

I've never talked to my Europen friends about this so I don't know if there are abuses but there is serious potential for abuse. Once we have federalized drivers' licenses, all they have to do is pass a bill requiring non-drivers to have a federalized ID card. The requirement can include children over a certain age, perhaps everyone, and then citizens can be required to carry their national ID at all times. That makes it possible to set up checkpoints and to allow government employees to demand that you show your ID on any pretext.

We've been edging this way for some time, with the Supreme Court having essentially ruled there is no right to privacy, that autos and homes can be searched anytime for any reason. Say goodbye to our Bill of Rights. Add in the RFID and they have compromised your right to privacy and your right to freedom of assembly even more.

You always know the Nazis in the movies when they say "Your papers, please."

So why does no one in Europe worry about this (if in fact they don't)? Is there a way to (once again) just do it like they do and satisfy both sides? I see where it could be a bigger risk here, with the current ruling attitudes, but what do they do differently that makes it ok for them to have it?

Dem_ExPat? Lebkuchen? Where a-r-e you????? Thankfully in Britain? Bonjour USA? Anybody in Europe?

Liz,

Let me play the other side here:

Internal checkpoints are going to be expensive. I have not heard good arguments for why we should have them now. I don't think there is any reason to just agree that we would be safer using people for those jobs instead of other security jobs.

Welcome to DU. :)

Heath

why in the world would we need internal checkpoints at all? I didn't even think to address that part because it seemed obviously silly.

I am still just thinking of the EU ID cards. Aside from crazy people running it here, why is this bad? is it bad for the EU too?

Does having a national ID system allow the Federal government to get more involved in the criminal justice system on a local level?

Would it move certain operations of law enforcement from a local level, where there is local discretion, to a federal level, where there is a uniform national law set in Washington, D.C.?

How would this influence things like state-to-state laws concerning medical marijuana, abortion, and so on?