If you are threating to leave the Democratic party, why not leave now?

Don't just make promises at DU, go ahead and leave the party. You'll feel better about it.

EOM

:eyes:

Therefore it comes out on DU as whining. We've all been there.

Captive supporters. And as long as the Republicans are as rotten as they are, the Democratic party gains from it. Look at the bucks they all made this year and when push came to shove....

...ribbit...

...ribbit...

...ribbit...

The Green party is already stigmatized, mostly because the Greens (at least in MN) put up ads baically suggesting they want to be stigmatized via the way they squandered their money on the most ridiculous TV ads ever to grace the screen. Ken Pentel's TV ads had my blood boiling by his cavalier attitude, suggesting that only the true idiots would vote for him. The content avoided all issues, did a happy smiley tapdance attitude about 'mainstream parties', and said nothing of content, let alone anything of depth.

I'd swear that Ralph Nader isn't the only jerkwad who wants to exterminate we, the people progressives.

(many Greens are true to their cause. But we need to be sure that we look carefully at our candidates and to make sure they're not going to crumble us from within.)

No, we need a new party. One free of stigma and one that would create ads that don't preach yet speak the truth on the mainstream political parties (focusing especially on the corruption on both sides with hard numbers would be only the beginning...)

After inauguration, if it happens. It's time to start organizing.

Seriously, though. That's what's missing. Dean might be the man for the job, if he would be willing to do it. And we won't lose a senate seat for doing it either.




http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

The only way to create a plausible new party is begin locally.
Win elections on city councils.
Win elections in the state legisature.
Win elections in Congress.

The base starts locally and you build from there.

If you get the people elected into the state legisature THEY can if they have the votes change election laws for Congressional and the Presidential elections.

That requires diluting the power of the major parties so that they need the support of other parties as in other countries that have to form coalitions to govern.

But we are talking about 50 different states and DC. Just with state legislatures there are probably over 7,000 state house and state senate members. Possibly 1,750 of those would have to be 3rd party in order to effect change or about 35 in each state out of about 150. Unfortunately, some states would have to pick up the slack and have more than the 35 average change.

It's supposed to change things or something. Yes, what you post anonymously on a message board is going to steer the DNC at all. I bet they visit here and think we're average Democrats represented here and not fanatics who spend way too much time thinking about politics for whatever personal reasons, so they'll listen. Ba ha ha ha ha.

I don't give a flying flip what the DNC or anyone else reading this board thinks about my decisionm to leave the Democratic Party after thirty two years.

I had to wait nine years to legally register w/the party from my 1st entry into politics. As the years have gone by, that party deserted not only me, but untold members that have toiled ceaselessly for the working class, the less forunate, for civil rights, for the elderly, the environment and all things liberal and good.

My hand shook a bit and I felt such a loss when I signed my new registration card. I felt sad, but knew it was the correct decision, for me.

I don't give a flying flip what the DNC or anyone else reading this board thinks about my decisionm to leave the Democratic Party after thirty two years.

Then why are you sharing your decision with us?

I thought what DemocraticUnderground was REALLY about what trying to save the very democracy that the Democratic Party has failed to do. Are you saying that only people who think like you should be allowed a voice? Are you also saying that this site is a front for the DNC? If you're really that tied to a corrupt system I feel sorry for you.

Many many of us have remained registered as Democrats for now. For a while anyway.

However, months ago we stopped our donations and only donate to DFA.

We supported Kerry some financially through DFA, and we voted for him.

Our loyalty is with that group until we see a viable alternative, or until the members of the party stop voting against our interests. They are going to go with the GOP on privatizing SS, and they already sold us out on Medicare.

DFA will run candidates in the primaries against those who vote against our best interests in such critical areas. That is the plan. I love that idea, and we will support the candidates that are run. We will do it, and we are already getting ready to run in the local races.

If the DNC wants to shed the influence of the DLC, stop voting the way they have on such major issues.....we might reconsider. There are many of us doing this.

If no Dem Senator has the guts to challenge the electoral votes, I'm going back to the Green Party.

Every single Democratic Senator should challenge. Every fucking one of them!

I'm also going to dreadlock my hair so I'll look great for the revolution!

Who the fuck knows if we'll even be allowed another vote in 2008, yet you guys wanna bitch that the party isn't "pure" enough. You want us to "purge" ourselves of the infidels, the non-"true" believers. We need to add votes to win, and you freaks want ethnic cleansing for ideological purity. You want to require that all progressives march in lock-step with your particular political and social prejudices.

Its reeks of pure adolescent arrogance and is an abysmally bad plan.

Their attacks on Dean and Moore. Anything even resembling the interests of the majority of Americans is automatically attacked as extremism and class warfare.

the party because its too far left. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

I am going to get away from using labels. So I will just say that the party did not vote in the best interests of its members.

Those who are happy with that, don't need to withhold support. Now do they?

It is those of us who opposed the war, opposed the Medicare bill, opposed the destruction of the schools through NCLB, and so on....we are ones who have stand up now and fight back.

And I've not seen alot of attacks on Dean, just a reaction against "You must accept him. He is your only hope! He must be DNC Chair or all is lost!"

There are things about Dean that I rather like. But I instinctively react against the hard sell.

That said, if organizations like moveon.org are going to make assertions like "we bought you, you belong to us" (yes soh, massah) then I don't blame people for reacting against that attitude. It's not their politics that scare the peepers out of me, it's the feeling they don't believe in democracy. "If you won't let us save you, we'll MAKE you let us save you." I'm not sure I'd be too thrilled as the DNC or the DLC if faced with the prospect of being bogarted.

The party appears to be migrating it's way back to a Kennedy-like conservativism, going back to its roots, as it were. Considering Kerry's near hero worship for Kennedy, I can't see why this would appeal to him in particular. Even so, he combines the fiscal and defense conservativism with his more liberal leanings quite well.

Rather like Goldwater Republicans, old-school Dems appear to be trying to take the party back to those Kennedy roots.

I still am a registered Democrat. I do not force anyone to accept Dean, I post about his statements and interviews. I do not want him as DNC chair, and a lot agree with me. He can accomplish more with DFA, running candidates. We only support DFA financially now and work with the candidates there.

Everytime this starts, it is like the primaries all over again. It is not the Deaniacs, it WAS not us during the primaries. It was an influx, and we had to fight to survive here.

You support Clark, but please stop going after us. Have Tom Rinaldo show you the post I wrote about Clark and Dean people uniting. It was fair and balanced.

If you're not making a dramatic exit, then my comments about those that are weren't directed at you. No worries. (besides, "the dramatic exit" is a classic internet strategy. It has more to do with being a bunch of internet geeks than anything else.)

If you're not pushing Dean as DNC Chair, then those comments weren't directed at you. Again no worries.

I don't feel that strongly about the other candidates to go after any one of them. The only people to really annoy me, and only just lately, have been MoveOn. I'll likely get over it.

As for the primaries, I wasn't here for them, and I wasn't that strong a Clark supporter looking back. I was still getting my feet wet at that point, as it were. I was barely awake politically, just starting to get really disgusted with Bush. Clark sounded good and sounded like what I was thinking, but I didn't find out much about him til later.

I'm a much stronger Kerrycrat, though Clark will always have a place in my heart for my Intro into Politics 101.

And I propose that we ALL try to unite as we were, or at least our candidates were, duriing the campaign. I was very proud of all our candidates. Dean refused to be used for psy ops. Kusinich worked in Ohio. Clark helped with Kerry's national defense speeches. They were all there, except for ol' Liebermann I guess. And the last thing we need is a circular firing squad right now.

You work in DFA, and I'll work in Kerry's PAC whenever he gets it up and running. At some point, maybe the fellow Dems can work together if the cause is worthy.

We all need to mellow out and stop replaying the primaries. There should be room for us all. Don't you agree?

Stop throwing the blame on us for the attacks on us. Do some research, and think about it. We are not starting things up. We are constantly defending, you guys seldom are.

Denial is a river in Egypt.

Hell, there is room in the DNC for anyone. As I said we work and donate only to DFA now, we simply keep the name Democrat for now.

As I have said, my gripe with Clark is that his supporters refuse to accept that Clinton and his other friends in Little Rock got him into the race for a reason. Also, that ones who came here during the primary, and are still going after us daily....need to stop.

I like Clark as a person... I like his supporters locally. They are passionate and active like we are.

It is not that way here, and posts comparing the two need to stop. I know I don't unless I am pushed on it. If I am pushed, I will respond.

The defensive crouch is bad for one's back, at the very least.

Don't defend. Go boldly. You have the right.

Of course, I need that advice myself. I'm in constant "defend Kerry" mode, myself. If the "you guys" means Clarkie, that wasn't me. Maybe Clarkies seldom have to defend, but I'm a Kerrycrat. Our candidate is the Rodney Dangerfield of politics, the velcro candidate. Everything sticks.

I don't know too much about the primary hubbub. Just that when Kerry came out on top, I thought he had the personality of styrofoam. Poor dear, he does have to grow on a person before you "get" him.

I'm hoping the next primary season, the Dems won't give the Republicans ammunition to use against the next nominee. We hack each other to pieces and all the Republicans have to do is take notes.

and repukes. Quit blubbering.

I'm sorry, but decisions about where the Dem party is going are not made on DU. They're made by the DLC, and the DLC has been attacking anyone even marginally to the left of the republicans.

.

working for their point of view. I would support any liberal Democrat running against Joe Lieberman; I would oppose any liberal Democrat running against Russ Feingold.

We need to choose our battles wisely and save our ammunition for our real enemies-Barrack Obama is not our enemy. Hell, Barrack Obama is the best hope we have to emerge from this slough of despair. Yet some "progressives" delight in tearing down our candidates and smearing our leaders.

Nicely said!

Are you encouraging others to do as you've done (leave the party) or are you just trying to stir the pot with people who are already confused and frustrated?

Spot-on.

I deliberately made my message ambiguous.

And see who stands tall. I have hope that our elected Democrats will stand strong. If they don't, then why should we expect them to represent our desires if they won’t fight for our right to vote and for that vote to be counted? Is it not worth at least as much effort to secure our election system as it is to conduct an election campaign? Any politician that is not standing up strong in support of exposing election fraud does not deserve the political position that they hold.

It's our party. We're taking it back. End of discussion.

Bush is going to give us plenty of reason to re-embrace traditional liberal values as the everything begins to fall to shit. As we do so we will take those poor slobs that have been misguidedly voting pug. You people in the middle are going to have to figure out if you're a pug or a Dem. We side with the working man, the little guy, the people. The Beamer bunch can come along for the ride if they want. If not, get the eff out of the way, unless you want to get run over.

This is rock bottom, people. The DLC types have brought us to this point. If we have to continue to lose until we get rid of those assholes, I'm willing.

GIVE ME BACK MY PARTY, DAMN YOU!

would be a good thing - in the long run. It may hurt a little at first, but there are alot of moderate republicans that would like to vote democrat, because of the influence of the religious right on their party. But they don't because they feel democrats are too far left on economic and defense issues. Many independents feel this way as well. So if you got rid of those that are far to the left, I think the democratic party could redefine itself and claim the ideological center where elections are won.

BTW, I think Howard Dean and the DNC are being very shrewed in having him be the voice of this wing of the party - instead of someone more extreme. Dean is actually a sort of centrist/independent type democrat. If he represents the left of the party, and has the following of the left, then that bodes well for the near future - '08 specifically. He can help move the party to the center.

I think the way DFA will work will also help in getting back from the right wing, both Republicans and Democrats.

Might as well merge back into the Democratic-Republican party.

I do believe that someone like Dean could bring a lot of good conservative folks to the table, though.

Purists on both sides need to get over themselves and start thinking in terms of the world we actually live in and not the ideal that exists only in their fantasies.

I'm not advocating what you suggest I am. I was responding to a post that said the party would be better off without the liberal left.

But many people on both sides of that divide apparently do want to "purge" the others, and that's a recipe for disaster. Winning parties are coalitions, not cults.

Hate fellow Dems...hate fellow Dems....

Don't you read the blogs?

Really?

Maybe they need to lose to be taught a "lesson."

Well, look what that lesson is! BUSH!

This supposed to be a safe place to voice our opinions. Maybe they just need to talk it out, and I dare say that we all declare we're going to do something drastic when we're upset, but we get over it or work through it. If they really go through with it, I think they're making a mistake; but I also think you're making a mistake with your thread.

Arguing & fighting amongst ourselves is understandable, but it's also something the opposition is happy to see us do.

I haven't had much time to read DU today, so did I miss something major (besides more tragedy today in Iraq) that has to do with this thread?

If "our party" abandons whatever remaining commitment it has to reproductive choice, gay rights, and the separation of church and state, how the f*ck are we supposed to distinguish it from the GOP?

Sorry, chum, but I've watched over the years as various core democratic ideals were jettisoned over the side in pursuit of the elusive (and only occasionally manifesting) promised land of "electability".. In case you haven't noticed, there's damn precious few of them left. Lots of us bitterly opposed an ill-conceived pre-emptive war based on bald-faced lies.. yet we managed to put aside our disagreements and rally- forcefully- behind a candidate who voted for the resolution authorizing the war.

In case you didn't notice, we did more than that- We busted our ass, but apparently (unless you're enough of a :tinfoilhat: kook- like I am- to believe that Diebold & co. had something to do with election results that stink like six day old fish) significant numbers of assault-weapon waving Jesus freaks were more concerned about the threat of Gay Marriage than they were concerned about 45 million Americans w/o health insurance, and as such we lost.

Maybe as some have suggested, we need to find a way to "reach" those voters. Fine by me. But if "reaching" them means selling out basic ideas like the idea that, say, the birth control pill really ought to remain legal, or that the United States is not exclusively a "Christian Nation", well, excuse me if I can't find the god-damn door out of the party fast enough.

Look around. We aren't leaving the party, so much as the party is leaving us.

Maybe instead of worrying about pandering to the homophobic "left behind" contingent, what we really ought to be doing is trying to find leaders who articulate what they believe in and believe in what they f*cking articulate. What did they say about Gore? He took focus groups to decide what he should and shouldn't believe. They used the same shit against Kerry. Unfair? Perhaps. But it's hard to argue that the stereotype doesn't contain a grain of truth.

The Democratic Party has not earned my lifelong loyalty, and if they want to keep it, maybe instead of figuring out how they can stop standing up for a woman's right to choose or equal rights for gay people, maybe what they -what we- should do is start standing up, without apology, for what is right-- "polling" be damned.

Couldn't agree more.
Well, okay, maybe a little more, to add:

The Democratic Party gave this country Social Security, Medicare, the GI Bill, OSHA, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. This is the party of Harry Truman and Lyndon By-God Johnson. Even Jimmy Carter, possibly the gentlest man to ever sit in the Oval Office, told Congress to go Cheney themselves on occasion.

How the hell has the Democratic Party devolved to the point that Howard Dean, an avowed moderate with a strong rating by the NR-friggin-A, has the entire Establishment shitting pink twinkies?

Now, heated debate is taking place In the smoke-filled rooms, on the tube and online over which Democratic core values should be jettisoned for political expediency. Opinion leaders in the party are advocating an even more hawkish position in the Middle East and espousing views on international relations that would make Pat Buchanan blush. Watch 'em on the Talking Head shows sometime. Whenever someone suggests that the Party move left or, God forbid, return to a populist position on social/economic issues, the Dem operative du jour goes as numb as the Queer Eye gang at a NASCAR gift shop. And I never thought I'd see the day that self-identified Democrats would actually advocate dropping abortion rights and *any* form of gun control from the party's platform. It's also kind of amusing to hear members of the party which brought us Civil Rights and Women's Equality telling gay folks to pipe down and quit drawing attention to themselves. This, in the name of winning elections. My only question is, if Democrats actually were to regain control of government after discarding most of what we believe in, what's the point of winning?

Federalist..National-Republicans..Whigs..Republicans..

Democratic-Republicans..Democrats..What next???

Americans always had factional parties, regional parties, and single-issue parties..but always within the context of a two-party system. But what happens to those parties when one religion, one social class..controls the judicial system, the executive branch, the legislative branch, and naturally the economy?

...the Party of my family since about as long as I can remember. Not now. Not ever.

and annoy the centrists. :D

....vote Democratic.

I'm thinking of going green, but my cousin tried to change her address on her voter's registration and was disenfranchised.

That is my last hope for the party.

If a reformer gets in, and we do well in 2006, there might be some life left in the party.

I know we did great in Minnesota state politics this last cycle....Let's see if the DNC can follow suit.

...another option is to make sure that those who are destroying the party from within are the ones that do the leaving.

How dare you?
I suppose everyone here is entitled to his own tribulations and judgement on their own political future. Even you ( a little thoughfulness might do wonders for ya)

All I said was stop threatening us with leaving the party and get off your asses and leave the party.

Are you the Democratic party? Or do you personally feel threatened?

Be careful what you wish for...

I'll still be on DU - reminding you that kissing a* wins you nothing but a brown nose. If you don't know who you are and are not going to stand by any belief, you are a pushover from thugs. And you don't have a vote - for years now. feel better, coming from an ex-dem?

That'll give us an idea of what direction they're planning on going with the party.

Trust us, we'll respond accordingly.

Don't get our hopes up and then let us down.

Of course, your loyalty and commitment to those who do that would continue as strongly as before, nu?

Seriously. We've got gaping holes in our backs, K?

Fully agree.

The point I was attempting to make in my usual subtle and charming manner dealt more with hypocrisy of Big Tenters who tend to follow the Other Guys' party line of "If you don't like it, leave" , "it's our ball; we make the rules" and, of course, the irony of "don't get our hopes up and then let us down." The post was *in no way* directed towards Dean supporters.

Good to see you around, old friend. :hi:

Yeah, it's been a while since we've crossed paths here- it's always good (and somewhat reassuring) to see YOU around, too!

...that will bring down this country. Sounds remarkably like Repuke bile. Democrats should be reaching out, not castigating people for being sick of the apathy that now defines the Democratic Party. You obviously have no interest in changing that.

I can't wait to see how many become republicans when they don't get their way anymore.

Really. I mean, threatening to "leave the party"...are you an office holder? A huge financial contributor?

If you are going to 'leave the party', go ahead. But where are you going to go?

Green? 0.01%
Libertarian? 0.01%
Reform? 0.0001%

Oh, yeah...that'll give you a lot of clout.

Or maybe you want to go to the other party. Good Luck.

My conscience is much more at ease being a Green- and my guess is that many others (who are going to continue to be relentlessly sold out) will too.

I still usually vote lesser of two evil- Dem, but I think an growing active Green party that is prepared to make (or withold) strategic alliances is the best solution.

In the even that someone like Dean comes along who you want to vote for in a primary- you can always switch back for that purpose. That's what I'd planned to do- for the sole purpose of that vote. Day after the election, i'd have been switching right back.

I always think something good is gonna happen next.

I usually wake up with nausea and a pounding head, however.

:shrug:

And it is a good way to get lots of posts in a thread to start the typical, "I'm leaving the Dem party if they don't ... "

If people really were going to leave the Dem party, most would just do it and not post on a message board to draw attention to it.

It's the same kind of thing when they post, "I'm gonna move out of US if Bush is elected"

Yea, sure. Maybe 1% actually do it.

Plus, if they really left the Dem party then who would they be able to bash and whine about at DU? (grin)

Put up or shut up time for whiners.

:hi:

shows that the DNC has some soul searching to do and needs to revaluate its direction. Fast.

If Dean doesn't get the chairmanship, the hardcore will find organizations that better suit their needs.

that we couldn't have a more PLAIN Jane minority speaker for the Senate than ole' Daschle, THEY go and select an even more snore-fest of a speaker ... yeah, AND one who esposses a dangerous postion against a WOMAN's right to choose.

Anti-Choice is a non-starter for many Democrats. Part of our wide appeal are inherant in the key aspects of tolerance and choice.

Harry Reid, The Moderate: The progressive wing of the Democratic Party may be dismayed that Senator Reid doesn't share their viewpoint on a handful of key issues, especially abortion.

n/t

and I don't think any Progressives should leave either. The reality is we have a two party system and we are the democratic base and without us the democratic party can't win. We have the power to reform the democratic party from within.

First we need to wrestle away whatever power the DLC has over the democratic platform. I don't know of any other way to do this except not support a DLC candidate. If anyone has any other ideas let me know I'd be happy to hear them.

Progressives need to start working from the ground up starting in local elections either by helping progressives campaign or running for office.

Until the DNC gets it shit together I'll be donating to moveon, Act, DFA, and directly to candidates but not the DNC and I recommend liberal/progressive do the same.

Also I would highly recommend buying from companies that donate to candidates that represent your values and don't purchase products from companies that give your money to Republicans or Democratic candidates that don't represent progressive values.

If every liberal/progressive democrat worked toward reforming the party I believe we could bring a much needed change.