Are there any people left on this Earth who still think that....

the people in Iraq were ever going to, and are ever going to, and ever would in a million years, submit to domination by the U.S. in any way, shape or form? Does anybody actually believe that they would buy Nokia phones and Verizon service and start eating at McDonalds and buying Nike shoes and Britney Spears records? Does anybody truly hold the belief that the Iraqi people - insurgents and citizens alike - are actually going to allow the U.S. and/or U.S. corporations to have control over the ocean of oil underneath Iraq? Anyone who believes this is completely ignorant of Middle Eastern peoples and their cultures. These people are much smarter and shrewder than the U.S. officials give them credit for. They see the U.S. as an occupying force that must be eliminated from their land. Anyone who still thinks that Iraqis see the U.S. as "liberators" is burying their head in the sand. And anyone who thinks the Iraqi people are going to "forgive and forget" the Abu Ghraib prison scandal is equally stupid and ignorant. The Iranian people have never forgotten the 1953 overthrow of their democratically elected prime minister by the CIA, after 50 years. Whoever thought up this stupid war in Iraq obviously has no concept or knowlege of Middle Eastern people and thinks they are a bunch of dumb munchkins or something. I have friends who are from Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey and after talking to them all about this, it is clear to me that everyone in the Middle East knows exactly why the U.S. military is there. I know most of the people on DU already know this, but are there still people out in the world who think that Iraq can be "Americanized" like the Phillippines was?

that there are plenty of ignorant Americans who think just that! The US will try to force its plastic culture on Iraq, but I hope the Iraqis will reject it. The thought of another country full of people drinking coca cola and eating at McDonalds and Starbucks and KFC and Wendy, etc., followed by obesity, is just disgusting.
* must think that all other countries want to be just like the US!
Ignorant westerners should know that there are plenty of bright people in the Middle East. They don't want to be led by *.

I agree with most of what you have written, but I also believe that the chances for some kind of neo con outcome would have been higher if the shrub administration had not been so incompetent. I find the incompetence of the shrubistas even more astounding than their overall unrealistic plan.

Shrub's representatives and military made utterly incomprehensible mistakes. They disbanded the Iraqi army, even though leading Iraqi commanders had secretly agreed not to fight in exchange for the US not disbanding the army. This created several hundred thousand unemployed soldiers and an embittered officer corp.

The street level tactics of the US military have been appalling. Reconnaissance by fire, numerous checkpoints manned by inexperienced American soldiers who scream at Iraqis in English and open fire if Iraqi drivers don't follow commands. Intrusive searches for "insurgents". Torture at Abu Ghraib. The absolute refusal to engage in political discourse with the Baathist party or other insurgent groups. Firing all mid to upper level Baath party members from all employment.

The list goes on and on. It was insane.

If the US had basically toppled Sadam and kept a discreet distance, guiding the Baath party and military to reform, democratize and retool, bizarrely enough -- scarrily enough -- the neo-con project might have been successful.

But then there would not have been massive contracts for the vice president's company, or a chance for Rumsfeld to try out new techniques of torture and civilian control, would there?

We did not go to Iraq seeking peace, we went seeking retribution. We did not go for Democracy or to reap the spoils of war, we went to Iraq for War.

We're going to have to pay for these sins one day, I wonder what the cost will be. Will our children suffer for our mistakes, will we force them to pay the price? Time will tell...

are the enemy of my children." Our children will suffer big time. God help them.

there are peoeple who think that it already has.

... who believe that.

aka bushbots.

I believe there are two kinds of Republicans, those who are dumb, ingnorant, stupid and will believe ANYTHING told to them if it's related to "God" and the "cynical" kind.

Cynical Republicans are the worst. They listen to what Bush says, KNOW that it's a lie, but ACCEPT it because they figure what's being done is in their best interest.

Example: Before the war, Bush* talked WMD's, NOTHING about Freedom. Now it's ALL about "Freedom" but anyone with a brain (ie: those not in the prior catagory) knows that's it's total BS...

BUT THAT'S OK TO THE CYNICAL REPUBLICAN! They're the ones who figure that "WMD's" are what Bush had to say to get us there, and that "Freedom" is the facade which keeps for the international community. So why do they stick with Bush?

1) To 'send a message' to them-there rag-heads that stuff like 9/11 won't go unpunished. Sure Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but they're all the same A-rabs, right? Hell, if they try sumptin' like that agin, nuke 'em!

2) Freedom = low oil prices and/or oil availability. The oil grab will (eventually) benefit the US in an international competition for oil which includes our rivals France and Germany.

3) There's "stuff" Bush CAN'T tell us because to reveal it would compromise national security. To reveal such info would let other countries know the depth of our intelligence.

Bush got roughly 60 M votes.

If they bought Nokia phones they'd actually be submitting to Finnish domination.

Nokia is a Finnish company, and Finland has the highest percentage of cell phone users in the world.

Diversified from the lucrative toilet paper industry into phones and did quite well. I think Finland leads on mobile penerration but the UK leads on uasge.

The trill of personalised ringtones has replaced the song of birds when one walks down the street here.

nobody in their right-mind would want to use and US mobile service or handset. You guys are living in the dark ages.

...immediately accused me of being a supporter of Saddam Hussein!

LOL!

They truly are pathetic little fools, aren't they.