I've asked people what Bush has to offer that Clark doesn't...

The typical conservative response was:

"Morality"

or

"Just wait till we find out about what he did in Kosovo."

Not a single concrete point about policy or ideology that makes Bush superior to Clark. Is that a good sign if Clark is the nominee?

Conservatives like Bush better than Clark. Whoudda thunk? :eyes:

:shrug:

doesn't mention independents. :shrug:

conservatives, then.

what percentage of self-proclaimed conservatives is Dean pulling in?

This is about the oft-repeated claim that I have seen that Clark is the key for Democrats to attract conservatives.

one person's silly anecdote about "asking conservatives" is a valid slam against Clark, and when a Dean supporter backs it up, we're not allowed to ask about Dean.

Maybe I'll start a new thread and you can answer in there.

:evilgrin:

I would certainly think less of any Clark supporter who argued this way. If you think it's wrong for Clark supporters to do it, why is it OK for Dean supporters?

Let's argue with facts, not this kind of silliness.

Morality?

Nothing about the war and so on?

Strange conservatives.

If that's all they got, to quote someone else, Bush's toast.

detailed viewpoints suggests to me they are intractable conservatives, keep looking, but those folks are hard in their ways.

what about what bush* is doing there?

We can juice up *our* base and bring new people into the process, however. Hell, it works for conservatives.

but he's done a masterful job in loadig the weapons they would use against him.

The single most significant thing that Bush has done that the General has not is to win election. Even if you leave off the presidential one, he did win in Texas.

Unless they respond that Bush is the Second Coming (and I've been given this response), listen to their response. Then give them the facts about Clark. Mention that you don't call it moral to go AWOL at time of war, for example, or to do drugs or abuse alcohol. Have all the facts on Kosovo at the ready to despute anything they say. Unless they are one of the nutcases mentioned above, they will listen to reason if you have the facts, including sources. Anyone who won't aren't voting Democrat anyway.

That could be the deal-breaker.

and Clark's concern. Tell them that in November for our community action project we sent clothing and phone cards to the wounded in Germany. Tell them that the wounded are brought out of Iraq, often with just the clothes on their back, and the hospital was running out of warm clothing. Also, calling home is expensive. It was Clark's idea, and we did it. Moral behavior is easy to talk about, ask them to join you in walking the walk. Clark believes it is the government's duty to provide ways for all of America's citizens to participate. Ask not what.....

I've had them ask how they can participate.

December is community food pantries

"Support our troops, elect one"

women who were Republicans tell me point blank they wouldn't vote for Bush and they were eager to read about Clark....

I had two young men tell me Bush was "stupid" and another who told me we have to get Bush out "before he kills us all."

I'm in Southern NM.....

A draft-dodging, AWOL, alcoholic, cocaine snorting, lying, election-stealing, CIA-name-leaking poser like W. has NO MORALITY!


Only hypocracy.

Recent events make it all too clear that the so-called conservatives in this country are LIARS! From Rush's abuse of prescription drugs to Strom's rape of a minor, they can no longer claim any MORAL high ground. I know they never could, but now there's recent proof.

Hmmm...

So do conservatives get the talking points from DU or vice-versa?

Kosovo and the David Koresh Waco Whako story.

:evilgrin:

based on a boat-load of lies, then GDubya is their man. If being moral means taking from the middle class to give to the poor, if being moral means witholding the truth about 9/11, if being moral means scrubbing thousands from voter rolls - THEN GW BUSH has the morality thing wrapped up.

How can you possibly argue with that?

But Bush does have more experience in draft dodging and going AWOL.

"Morality"
I will put Wes Clark's morality up against any politician any day of the week. The "conservatives" (and I know a fair number)I know are drawn to him for this very reason.

"just wait til we find out what he did in Kosovo"
If you want to know what he did in Kosovo ask any of the thousands of Kosovar Albanian refugees who live in this country that credit Wes Clark with saving their lives.

Here's how this works, one more time while I wait the 1000 hours or so to start seeing how this primary stuff all works out.

There are many conservatives out there in the GOP who are horrified by what is going on. They are not in favor of US involvement in foriegn adventures, they are not in favor of exploding the size of the federal payroll, they are not in favor of seeing their personal liberties shut down by the Patriot Act, they never trusted the Federal Government, they wanted a balanced budget amendment for Chrissakes and they were always against deficit spending.

And they got it all, in spades, from Bush who claimed to be a right winger but looks more and more like another Yankee tax and spender just like all the Yankee Bushs.

They might stay home during the election or they might come out to vote against someone who is just like all those other Democrats they've always voted against.

On the other hand, if you have a certified, one hundred percent, honest American military hero and four star general running as a Democrat maybe these guys will say, hey, I can vote for him.

Got it? Every vote we get from the BushCo base is two votes, one for us, one NOT for him.

Any questions?

as a slam at Clark, I think it shows that the ammo the right has on him is pretty damned slim. The hardcore ideological right will never vote for Clark, but I think he has a good chance of attracting the votes of moderate Republicans who are disturbed by Bush's policies.

In other words, yes it does sound like a very good sign if Clark is the nominee.

a) fundamentalist Christians who actually believe that Bush is doing the Lord's work - or -
b) people who get their talking points from Faux News, Newsmax, etc.

These are not people who will vote for any Democrat. However, there are other conservatives who think beyond fundamentalist Christian ideology and/or RW media whores. These are the conservatives Clark has a chance of getting votes from. Dean has a chance to get them too if he can get a message out beyond "I'm right and they're wrong"