Sen. Clinton urges use of faith-based initiatives

Don't shoot the messenger! Actually, I shot Messeraroundwithmysecurity
ages ago, thanks to Steve Gibson, but that's tangential to the point.

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"There is no contradiction between support for faith-based initiatives and upholding our constitutional principles," said Clinton, a New York Democrat who often is mentioned as a possible presidential candidate in 2008.

<snip>

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/01/20/sen_clinton_urges_use_of_faith_based_initiatives?mode=PF

conservative Repuglican lite politician. What did you expect her to say?

THIS is why the party is losing so many elections, folks, crap like this that convinces people there's no difference between the two parties, so they might as well vote for the one that says it'll cut their taxes.

greasing program.

troubled.

that have so far gotten government funds, 100% have been christian, and over 75% have been protestant.

Wish I had the link.

But I'll challenge you -- what non-christian program has gotten my tax money? If you can show that non-protestant christian programs are getting proportional funding, you may have an argument.

When the government subsidizes a church program, it frees up that church's funding for other purposes; therefore, it is acting to support that church in defiance of the first amendment.

There is no way that this is right.

on the "When the government subsidizes a church program, it frees up that church's funding for other purposes; therefore, it is acting to support that church in defiance of the first amendment".

A Church group MUST use its monies to survive - only after that can it do good deeds with any excess monies. Adding to the excess monies does not affect the survival monies already budgeted by the church.

True that money is "fungible" - but in this case that has no effect - at least in my opinion :-)

Which part of separation of church and state don't you understand Hil?

I mean, she's running the streets naked, on all fours, frothing at the mouth.

Right?

Poor girl.

After all, she's supposed to be a learned lawyer herself.

And, now, to speak as a retired social worker ... in addition to the constitutional reasons for not supporting faith-based initiative, I'd like to talk about how the leaders of these programs treated my clients - and it wasn't nice.

Frequently, the religious leaders that ran the social programs would require the client to turn over control of their funds to the organization. At least several times, I had to poitely visit the leader of the org. in question, with the client, and get the client's money turned back over to them - in order to pay for a necessity.

Secondly, there was plenty of coercion to join the church in question, even though this type of coercion was both against policy, and, I believe, against California law.

Thirdly, they hired social workers to act as counselors in a few of the programs, when they were off-duty. When they would interview them, the first question out of their mouth would be concerning the applicant's views on abortion (this type of questioning, along with failure to hire because of the answer was also against funding policy, etc.).

I have never seen these programs operate as efficiently as others, largely because of the salaries of the administrators, and the lack of staff.

Just my humble opinion. For the most part (and there are churches that run programs well), this is a really, really bad idea, and is mainly just "payback" to Booosh's foot soldiers.

This is a strike against her, in my humble opinion.

Working in Human Services and often helping people with emergency needs my GENERAL (I emphasize because I have seen a few exceptions) experience with faith-based programs is that they are coercive and engage in practices which would never be tolerated in a secular organization - to the detriment of the clients. This is particular despicable since most of the people they serve are in desperate straits, without options, and afraid.

n/t

The faith based initiatives should be among the first things to go.

to have the courage of her convictions and hand out gummint schwag to Wiccans, Santarians, and Scientologists when they come calling.

Or knock off the "faith-based" crap and call it what it is -- an initiative to federally subsidize the Christian religion.

with DEMS like this who needs the wacko right. :puke:

She will vote to confirm CondiSLEAZa and the torture facilitator Gonzalez too. There is no way I am voting for her in the Presidential primaries.

they project what they want to see.

Still, it is a step up on the evolutionary scale from Bush worship. ;-)

horrible attacks. She seemed courageous at one time. I also thought her smart - but this is the dumbest thing ever - sell out constituents, suppurt financing knuckledraggers - a win-win proposition for her!

Pound sand Hillary.

You have a good education. YOu went to law school. You have read the writings of the founding fathers, and particularly Jefferson, who fought so hard to keep the religious nuts out of government.

YOu just turned my stomach.

I will never support you.

I will never vote for you.

I think you should be drummed out of the democratic party.

I will actively campaign against you, regardless of your opposition.

You are a disgrace to America and do not belong in the democratic party.

If the democratic party adopts your positions, then the party is officially dead and a third party WILL emerge.

to cash in on the "morals issue" and pander.

As for Hillary: Pandering? YES..My vote? NO...

Ya know, I'm really okay with people exercising their faith. I have no problem with God on our money. BUT when it comes to these heartily funded faith based programs and all the other "cuts" to social programs in general, I'm up in arms!

Early last week a member of my family in need got SLAMMED/shut out by a "faith based" program. I and hubby were enraged and let them know it. Wrote to my assemblyman. Will write to newspaper and city counsil next.

I've been so busy over the last year that I forgot to pay attention to the crap happening right in my own community! I might advise others to pay closer attention to their own communities also. It's close at hand and you can do something about any wrongs you see pretty quickly. Start making noise in your own town...where ever you live. It's a good start..it's a great way to pursue ongoing progressive issues while keeping an eye on the global problems we have too.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!

She's not aping Bush. Giving faith-based organizations a chance to get federal money isn't the same as giving them preferential treatment.

:-)

i am with the true believers of the astral dimension demagoguery faith based fascists. we believe-we believe (said with throaty tremble and slight falsetto).
Got any cash?

As does the slow suicide of the Democratic Party as it merges with their Republican pals.

That little snip kinda takes the article out of context:

<snip>
In a speech at a fund-raising dinner for a Boston-based organization that promotes faith-based solutions to social problems, Clinton said there has been a "false division" between faith-based approaches to social problems and respect for the separation of church of state.
</snip>

<snip>
"The Clintons, on faith-based solutions, have always been way ahead of the curve," said Rivers, citing President Clinton's support of a 1996 law banning the federal government from discriminating against religious organizations seeking funding available to groups delivering social services.

In her speech, Clinton praised the efforts of Rivers and others working to curb youth violence, saying those of faith are often most willing to walk the streets of the country's most dangerous neighborhoods to try to reach young people. Where others "see trouble," she said, Rivers and faith-based soldiers "see God's work right in front of them."
</snip>

Porque?

I know we already finance religion, but the plan here is to take this to the tens of billions level. It doesn't matter if they hand the money out equally. imho.

I don't get this at all. Why act like you are fighting for what this nation is suppose to stand for and then support this. It would be like going to a million war protests and then on election day voting for Bush. You're waisting your time protesting.

If a politician can read this article from the LaTimes and still support the fbi, they are in it for the votes NOT the "good of it'...
They admit that they can't keep track of the money and it is only a fraction of what they intend in the future.

I think this is one of the most important articles to come along but I didn't see it much around the net.

LaTimes article (no registration on this article - must read)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1502762

The fbi is about BUYING VOTES, nothing more, read that article. Towey is partisan political hack. The fbi is NOTHING but a political tool when it gets near Rove types, for sure. Even if some well meaning dem was in charge trying to do right by it, how long before we get another theocratic fascist prez who takes it right back to a payola scheme?

I heard where it was eventually meant to pay for the re-building of the old churches in the country. I thought that odd, till I saw where Fienstien supported a measure to give ten million to rebuild churches in CA.

This fbi voter buy is why there is a republican governor in Alabama. Riley, who won by a very slim margin, kept flying black ministers to DC to meet and find out how much cash they could get if Riley was elected - like as a repub he could help grease the wheels. They learned republicans had the money to buy their votes so they sold them. They were impressed, they said Clinton never flew them to DC and offered to give them money.

Theocracy, I mean, why don't we just put Moon in charge and cut out all the middlemen? http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

My Lord, Bush used the theocrat, Moon, to push it. Is anyone listening?

from AU.
http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5684&a...

Meanwhile, in Washington, D.C., U.S. Rep. J.C. Watts, the House Republican Conference Chairman, was issuing press releases noting that the GOP's "faith-based" summit would be viewed by satellite at events in over 45 cities.

But if invitees took the time to read the fine print on the flyers touting the local gatherings, they would have learned that the get-togethers were sponsored not directly by the Republican Party but on its behalf by a group called the American Leadership Conference (ALC).

Reading further, they would have found out that the ALC is a project of the American Family Coalition and The Washington Times Foundation both front organizations for the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, a controversial Korean evangelist and founder of the Unification Church. The "faith-based summit" itself was sponsored by Watts (R-Okla.), Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) and other top congressional Republicans, but efforts to promote it at the grassroots level were turned over to a Moon organization.

Why is the Republican Party working hand in glove with Moon front groups? The partnership stems largely from Moon's phenomenal ability to make inroads in GOP and Religious Right circles. Despite his unorthodox theological views Moon teaches that he is the new Messiah, sent by God to complete the failed mission of Jesus Moon has had little difficulty penetrating the upper echelons of American conservatism.

While a number of Republican-aligned private organizations have promoted President George W. Bush's religion funding scheme, only Moon won an official relationship with the Republican leadership to rally grassroots forces on behalf of the "faith-based" summit. This enhanced status enabled him to do grassroots political organizing and religious recruitment with the apparent blessing of Bush and his GOP allies in Congress.

Stuff the faith based initiatives back into the churches where they belong. Some of those initiatives that Hillary is wetting her pants over are disgusting proselytizing efforts, such as the one in a Texan prison where inmates are immediately converted to Christianity in order to participate.

That's it, I fucking quit... this, bending over for Condi the Imcompetent, bending over for Torquemada Gonzales.... It's official, it's all one giant Republican party now.


Ohhhh Canada...

She was head of Wellesley's College Republicans. I am not kidding.

yeah, Hillary - no contradiction whatsoever. Are you aware all the taxpayer money in this BS goes to reward/convert power for BFEE? (I avoided the use of the word "vote" - it being obsolete)
So, Hil dear, not only do you sell out the constitution, it's political suicide on every level (as you seem to only speak 'strategery these days)