could you watch Howard Dean debate Richard Perle...

....without considering some sort of protest against Perle?

This face-off comes in February in Portland as part of an annual debate series. I honestly don't know if I can be in the same room with Perle and maintain civility, considering his crimes against America.

What say you?

We need a new word for neoconmen like Perle. I can't stand them anymore. Their paranoid stupidity, and their puppet president, have damned this nation to hell.

If I was Dean, I would be fighting the urge to punch him in the face through the whole debate.

Actually, I would go to something like this, just to boo him everytime he says something and call him names from the crowd.

Perle has absolutely no sense of reality. Dean will destroy him. I'd go in a minute if I were in Portland. I wouldn't worry about protesting. Dean will handle him. The last thing you want to do is drown out the debate with shouting.

pummeling.

Let's hope that C-Span will be there in full force!

to support Howard Dean. Perle is just the lowest scum, dogshit on the shoe of life.
Howard Dean, new head of the DNC and hope for Democrats around the world, will whoop his perfumed ass.
OK Howard Dean for DNC head = Democratic Senate and House in 2006 = IMPEACHMENT for the chimp and some time as a guest of the state for Mr. Perle.
Hoooo baby I am so there.

In the middle of the war on terror: hundreds of thousands of tied-up troops, hundreds of billions of dollars wasted, our good name soiled and international cooperation broken, 1,400 dead Americans and tens of thousands of dead Iraqis.

For what????

And, here's the kicker- Osama bin Laden is STILL out there.

How the FUCK can Perle respond to that???

Perle is so thin skinned. Everytime someone in the press has finally asked him something resembling a hard question, he gets snippy and tantrums. This should be good.

Pat Buchanan. I have no idea whether Perle will be as civil as Pat seemed to be.

http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/10/20/417608dba24e2

In contrast to the tone of the presidential debates, this debate proved that political discourse can be conducted cordially.

"We can be on totally opposite sides of an issue and still be patriotic," Buchanan said.

Sponsored by the Social Planning and Events Committee's Connaissance branch, the debate focused on timely issues such as the Iraq war, the economy and immigration.

"It was the most intellectual discussion I've heard in the campaign, and they have nothing to do with the campaign," College junior Daniel Mims said. "I almost wish these were the presidential candidates."

Debate on US Foreign Policy
Noam Chomsky
Richard Perle

The legendary encounter between Chomsky and Richard Perle, the Prince of Darkness. For years there were rumors that a tape of their 1988 debate at Ohio State University in Columbus existed. Finally, it was Edward Herman who tracked it down. It was worth the wait. Rarely do establishment figures take on Chomsky in a debate format. After listening to this you'll understand why. The MIT professor runs circles around Perle. Chomsky sticks to the facts and the documentary record while Perle spews out platitudes and fantasies about US intentions.
<more>
http://www.alternativeradio.org/programs/CHON-PERR001.shtml

MP3:
http://tvset.org/mp3/Chomsky%20v%20Perle%201988/


"You can learn a lot from looking at the historic record, and you can learn a lot from the fact that certain people don't want you to look at it."
-- Noam Chomsky, debating Richard Perle

from
http://www.chomsky.info/audionvideo.htm

part 1
http://www.radio4all.net/dl.php/01162004_chomskyperle_1.mp3?file_id=15798&protocol=http&

part 2
http://www.radio4all.net/dl.php/01162004_chomskyperle_2.mp3?file_id=15799&protocol=http&

and I can't believe how bad Perle indeed is, Chomsky is cleaning his clock. The best one hour and eight minutes of entertainment I've heard in a long time.

Dean will beat Perle easily.

to worry about waging a protest.

i appreciate that there is a deep chasm of differences between Dean's views and Perle's ... Perle is truly one of the most hideous people our country has ever allowed in a position of power ...

but it still bothers me that from where we are today, regardless of how we got there, Dr. Dean still has not joined with those who are calling for the U.S. to get out of Iraq NOW ...

i'm sure Dr. Dean will tear Perle's PNAC madness apart and I applaud him for that ... but his continued support for U.S. military occupation of Iraq needs a major rethink ... it would be great if he changed his thinking on Iraq before his debate with Perle ... that would make him far more effective ...

than it is now.

Even Juan Cole doesn't favor an immediate pullout -- http://www.juancole.com/2005/01/al-hakim-no-to-civil-war-yes-to.html

Helena Cobban, veteran Middle East observer and journalist and a dear friend, argues against my anxieties at her web log. She can't understand why I think things could get worse if the US withdrew precipitously. I can't understand why it would be hard to understand. The Baathists would begin by killing Grand Ayatollah Sistani, then Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, then Ibrahim Jaafari, and so on down the list of the new political class. Then they would make a coup. Once they had control of Iraq's revenues, they could buy tanks and helicopter gunships in the world weapons bazaar and deploy them again against the Shiites. They might not be able to hang on very long, but it is doubtful if the country would survive all this intact. The Badr Corps could not stop this scenario, or it would have stopped all the assassinations lately of Shiite notables in the South, including two of Sistani's aides. Had the US not dissolved the Iraqi army, I'd be out in the streets now demanding an immediate US withdrawal. The failures of the Fallujah campaign made it amply clear that the US armed forces are unlikely to make headway against the guerrilla insurgency, and in the meantime are just making hundreds of thousands of Iraqis more angry. You will note that Sistani, who is not shy about these things, has not demanded an immediate withdrawal of US forces. In fact, I was told by a US observer of the scene in Najaf that a member of the marja'iyyah asked the US to take care of the Mahdi Army for them last summmer.

There is a saying in Arabic, Ahl al-bayt a`lamu bima fi'l-bayt--the people of a house know best what is in the house. When Sistani says the US should set a timetable and go, then I think we should all support that. But the US has made a big enough mess in Iraq without compounding it by hanging the Iraqis out to dry and decamping suddenly. By the way, Iraqis have more than once pleaded with me to argue against precipitous withdrawal by the US.

Thanks to Bush's incompetence, Iraq would end up a worse failed state than Afghanistan if we pull out suddenly.

Going with my wife and a few friends. Any one in the Portland area who would like to go and doesn't have tickets should contact the League of Women Voters (the sponsors). The deadline for buying tix is past, but they may still be available.

BTW- it's at the Schnitz on 2/17.

Guess I'd better get tickets now. I've got a dozen people wanting to go.

Will you be wearing a red carnation?

actually

...I don't think there's any coverage, although perhaps the University sells video after the fact. I'll find out.

that the general public doesn't have access to these types of debate.

that would be great TV

waiting for Richard Perle. I hope that he is enjoying his estate on the French Riviera and all the nice money from Trireme, Hollinger, Boeing, etc... that he collected in exchange for selling out America. He won't be able to spend it where he's going.

He lost every last one of the debates and often got nailed on not knowing his own position. Fortunately, the DNC chairman (if he gets the job) doesn't have to debate.

and the rest weren't great either. Of course, the debate format only allowed 60 minute response to the question and a 30 second rebuttal to another's 30 second response to his/her answer. So it was kind of hard for any of them to give deep thoughtful answers during that time frame unless of course they decided to break the time limit. Dean did an excellent job of staying within his time limits.

you can't stand Dean and never,ever miss an opportunity for an egregious dig. He's clearly your favorite dem boogyman. Fact is Dean's pretty good at one on one debating, and although his performances in the dem faux debates was less than stellar, no one else exactly shone either.

..."Chairman or not, I am not gonna quit!" He's also going to Mississippi in February, after the 2/15 chair vote, no matter the outcome. God, that man is great. And yeah, I will prolly get flamed for "hero worship," but it is so increasingly rare that a pol actually walks his talk these days that even someone who doesn't really like Dean that much has to give him points for that, I would think.

As far as Pearle, GOP types will hear what they want and Dem types will hear what they want. It's the kind of selective hearing that is rampant in the country at present, and ends with each side saying it is correct and refusing to acknowledge the other.

:shrug:

It is always the same shit at these debates. From the left you get an informed well structured list of things that are wrong with what we are doing and a suggestion on how to better the situation. On the right you get the same almost on-topic republican canned response that you've heard a dozen times before from other republicans that all come from the conservative think tank that handles that particular issue.

Listening to the same crap from them over and over disgusts me. Why bother talking at all if you don't have anything new or useful to say. These don't sound like real debates. They just sound like two speeches.

I'd take a tape recorder, but it really wouldn't be cool.

But I'll take notes for DU and also post any reviews I find.