How much is winning worth to us?

Let's discuss a hypothetical. (Not too far from the truth)

It is 1964.

You are a political adviser to President Lyndon Johnson. Your job is to communicate the political ramifications of anything he does and to make recommendations.

He meets with you in his office one day.

He tells you:

"There's this bill that would guarantee racial minorities equal status in law, employment, housing, and other ways. It's called the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

I'm in a bind...

By signing this bill I would bring justice to a significant minority of heretofore utterly oppressed people. I would be looked upon in history as a courageous man. This bill is morally right.

However, by signing this bill, I will utterly destroy the Democratic majority coalition. The South will be lost to us for a generation. Our Southern caucus is furious about this bill. The Republicans will almost certainly rise up, sweep up the Southern electorate, and take majority status.

On the other hand...

If I veto the bill, minorities will remain 2nd class citizens, who can be arbitrarily discriminated against. They will be permanently kept down in poverty.

But, by vetoing the bill, I can hold our coalition together and we would retain power for the rest of the foreseeable future. I can't imagine what Republican rule might be like.


What do I do?"


-------------------

What would you, as political adviser, tell President Johnson?

and get out of Viet Nam.

Should he save millions of minorities from poverty and discrimination or suck the ass of the South?

:eyes:

BTW The Civil Rights Act has become one of the Democratic Party's honorable achievements.

and I would be saddened if the Democratic party had decided to "move to the center" in 1964. If they had done that, I'd shudder to think what it would be like to be black today.

in the south in 1964, a northerner going to college in Virginia....everything was segregated, and I mean everything: buses, toilets, movies, lunch counters. AAs would get off the curb onto the street if you walked by. They were treated like sub-humans and the best jobs I ever saw one had down there was housekeeping. Fuck the south, it has been better for civil rights and it damn well knows it. And fuck the current group of DINOs who don't have the balls to do right....

That same lesson should have applied with the Iraq war.

even if it may doom us to defeat.

Whatever the consequences. Of course you sign the bill. Let the chips fall where they may.

we never win anymore.

When the voting rights act comes up again. I suspect the Republicans aren't going to be interested.

It is one of the greatest achievements of the Democratic party. Democrat candidates should not think one term but what is in the best interest of the country long term.

In a sense, we are paying for the aftermath of Clinton's backpeddling now. Clinton played the Ace and we are having to play with a shitty hand and wait for the deck to be reshuffled.

Dean will help to reshuffle that deck and in 06 and 08 we will have a better hand to play; a Democrat hand, not a Repub lite hand.

*Sorry to 'blame Bill' but he did put this whole centrist movement in full swing. He pulled if off then, pre 9-11, with his charisma, but no one else can pull it off again, at least not for a long while. We cannot cash in one term and expect to win the next.

"Who wouldn't sign the bill?"


How about

Who wants to sell out the pro-choice movement?
Who thinks we needed to support the war to win?
Who thinks we should abandon gay rights?


There are people in this party who follow the principle that, if applied in my situation, would call for VETOING the bill.

I'm trying to remind everyone of the potential consequences of that strategy.

NT