The Fighting Moderates -Krugman on Dean as chair

The Republicans know the America they want, and they are not afraid to use any means to get there," Howard Dean said in accepting the chairmanship of the Democratic National Committee. "But there is something that this administration and the Republican Party are very afraid of. It is that we may actually begin fighting for what we believe."

Those words tell us what the selection of Mr. Dean means. It doesn't represent a turn to the left: Mr. Dean is squarely in the center of his party on issues like health care and national defense. Instead, Mr. Dean's political rejuvenation reflects the new ascendancy within the party of fighting moderates, the Democrats who believe that they must defend their principles aggressively against the right-wing radicals who have taken over Congress and the White House.
...
By standing firm against Mr. Bush's attempt to stampede the country into dismantling its most important social insurance program, Democrats like Mr. Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Dick Durbin and Barbara Boxer have, at a minimum, broken the administration's momentum, and quite possibly doomed its plan. The more time the news media spend examining the details of privatization, the worse it looks. And those Democrats have also given their party a demonstration of what it means to be an effective opposition.
...
For a while, Mr. Dean will be the public face of the Democrats, and the Republicans will try to portray him as the leftist he isn't. But Deanism isn't about turning to the left: it's about making a stand.

http://nytimes.com/2005/02/15/opinion/15krugman.html?hp

Oh, yeah :dem:

How does Howard Wellstone Whatever sound?

:)

I say go for it.

I hate it and hope to get married for the sole reason of getting a new last name. :)

Why don't you like rogers? Howard W. Rogers would be a great name.

my father. He is um shall we say less then pleasent?

Not that I know much about it, but you could have it legal changed if you wanted.

A friend of mine changed hers so that both her first and last names are female (as in "Sally Belinda"). She didn't like her father either. The judge said he'd never heard of such a thing as using two first names (really? William-s, John-son, Roger-s, and a thousand others all started that way), but he granted her petition anyway.

Were you teased by being called Roy Rogers after the cowboy star, or was that before your time?

Hopalong Cassidy, another cowpoke, was on the small screen at the same time, and I got really sick of being called Hopalong. "Hoppy" and "Hop" stuck to my dad, who didn't seem to mind it as I guess he liked it better than "Junior," his previous nickname.

Hekate
yippee-ki-yi-o

Take that.

Tritz, now you do the math on what the other kids called me. :eyes:

tits, Ritz cracker (i think that one is kinda funny), Trix (silly rabbit) and a few I cannot remember. Even funnier was substitute teachers calling my name out for roll call and always getting it wrong. Oh yea fritz was one of them

Now it varies from State to State, for example my home state of Pennsylvania still follows the Common law Rule that a person can change their name at any time as long as it is consistent and for non-fraudulent purposes. No Court action is needed (This upsets bureaucrats who want your birth certificate to match your name, but that is NOT a requirement in Pennsylvania). Furthermore in Pennsylvania changing the name on a Birth certificate is easy, you just tell the Bureau of Vital Statistics the name is wrong. On the back of the Birth Certificate is the form to correct the name. Fill it out mail it in and the name on the birth certificate is changed and a new one is issued. Pennsylvania has long ruled its birth records are records of birth not your name, thus it is administrative to change any name on the Certificate. If the subject of the Certificate is below 18 it requires BOTH parent's Signature but if you are over 18 all it requires is your signature.

Other states require a court order to change a Birth Certificate and require a Court Order to change one's names, so check with a lawyer in your state on how to change your name.

One last comment, the wife taking her husband's name was never required under the Common Law, it was just a Tradition. They are cases of the Husband taking his wife's name and even both parties taking on a third name. Pennsylvania follows this rule but other states have changed it by Statute.

as in the late Rev Fred Rogers. Rev Rogers was a graduate of Pittsburgh Theological (Presbyterian) Seminary on North Highland Avenue in Pittsburgh's East End, a day-in day-out youth minister at University and City Ministries (just off the University of Pittsburgh Campus), and the producer and "star" of Public TV's "Mister Rogers Neighborhood."

The Unholy Three (Falwell, Dobson, Robertson) accused him of advocating the so-called "Gay Agenda".

he was my neighbor in Pittsburgh's East End.

Rogers is a distinguished name.

Wear your association with Fred Rogers like the badge of honor that it is.

that the other kids used to torment me.

;)

Paul David Wellstone, take your pick.

Sounds wonderful!

I am naming the child after.

:hi:

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Holy shit! Some people are unbelievable. :mad:

It was flat-out hateful and ignorant, too.

:yourock:

Nice...so true.

I love and respect Paul Krugman, and I am glad to see he understands what Dean is about.

:hi:

I'm writing Paul Krugman a short note of appreciation. I wish my newspaper carried his column on a more regular basis -- he's such a voice of sanity.

Hekate

you can read it online line

nytimes.com

You just have to register (free)

He's a 'fighting moderate' himself - driven to taking a stand and speaking out by the lethal right-wing extremism of the Bush govt.

I have had so much gratitude for him over the past couple of years... he's been one of the ones who's kept me going.

I can think of, anyway.

Three cheers for Krugman!
:toast:
:toast:
:toast:

Here's my favorite version, from another fighting moderate, Eliot Spitzer: "As President Bush embraces the ownership society and tries to claim that he is the one that is making it possible for the middle class to succeed and save and invest - well, I say to myself, no, that's not right; it is the Democratic Party historically that created the middle class."

And the Repugs who are systematically destroying it.

Eliot Spitzer. VERY powerful point/quote.

That was such a powerful speech he gave (was it lastl week? or the week before?). It made me proud to be a Democrat. Eliot Spitzer is a hero to me now....

Yes, Dean takes a stand, but most of his grassroots supporters stand to the left of Dean. One of Dean's most important stands, however, is that part of his job as DNC chair is to empower the grassroots.

He is good and decent and a strong Democrat. Clear and proud of his identity and determined to fight for it....with us. That is all we ask.

... and DESPITE the conventional wisdom, I don't care whether or not I agree with Dean on every single issue.

I don't agree with ANYONE on every single issue, that is not my litmus test. My test is "will this person stand up for what he believes, can he speak with passion and conviction about his viewpoint?".

Dr. Dean can do that, and he will. And as soon as we get more Dems that can and will, we will move forward.

:hi:

Want to make that a bumpersticker?

In my political science course I'm taking about Politics & Mass Media we watched the movie "Network". This article and Howard Deans words reminded me of the scene where Howard Beal told everyone to stand up and shout "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore!!!!!"

he's one of the best regular guests on Franken's show.

but as the other posters say, it never was about agreeing with him on all of the issues.

it's about making a stand.

it's about making a stand.

it's about making a stand.

it's about making a stand.

it's about making a stand.

it's about making a stand.

it's about making a stand.

Now all we have to do to take back our party is get rid of the DLC appeasers.

:toast:

With Dean in as DNC chair and Harry Reid fighting back in the Seante, I have some hope.

Democrats who criticize him are pikers

I have been a liberal Democrat since I was old enough to align myself with a political party or philosophy. I support Dean now because I support the DNC (I do think he does bring talents to the chair's position that will serve us all well). I would hope that the party is looking to find commonalities within its ranks and welcome those independents whom share some of the same core values. Name calling falls into the same category as gathering in a circle and shooting-----it is counterproductive!

I'm not a Dean worshiper but I wish him great success!

The DUers who worship Dean as some liberal rock star are going to be dissapointed sooner or later, and unfortunately we're going to have to listen to them whine and moan and feingoldobamaleahyize him as soon as he acts like a party chairman should act.

DUers who recognize dean as the moderate fighter krugman describes ought to continue to be pleased as punch for years to come.

Pubs fear.......

He will be able to galvanize us ...to take our collective strengths and maximize them to the point of success.

Clinton stood up to the Pubs during his showdown with Newt..and the Gov't was shut down for 5 days(or whatever)...

Newt lost big time and looked foolish as a result...he has never recovered....

Dean will make similar stands...because he believes in doing the right thing for ALL AMERICANs and not just a few as the BushCo does.

This is why the Pubs will do everything possible to break up the Dean Movement.... Watch "Bushes Brain" and you will come to realize we are in dire times.

Its guys like us who must help Dean reorg the Dem Party to its full potential...We owe it to ourselves and our children/future not to mention the Planet.

Come, we go help the guy......plz....

The solution

Another paragraph from the article:

"It was always absurd to call Mr. Dean a left-winger. Just ask the real left-wingers. During his presidential campaign, an article in the muckraking newsletter CounterPunch denounced him as a "Clintonesque Republicrat," someone who, as governor, tried "to balance the budget, even though Vermont is a state in which a balanced budget is not required."

Yes, Counterpunch is a leftwingnut muckraking rag, alright. Clark supporters know it well. I'm glad Krugman said it.

"...Mr. Dean is squarely in the center of his party on issues like health care and national defense. Instead, Mr. Dean's political rejuvenation reflects the new ascendancy within the party of fighting moderates..."

The Party returns to center.

I prefer the to see the Democratic Party as an intresting mix of liberal s(I will continue to use this word. I don't care how the Rethugs use it) moderates, a few conservatives, and a pinch of DINOs.

Isn't Dean gonna put some kind of "Think globally, act locally" campaign strategy? This way the party can be moderate in say, red states or red counties.

Many grassroots organizations have some kind of liberal stance(like PDA and Democrats.US) and if they are going to have a great impact in campaigns, then it might become intresting. Of course there are some moderate or single issue grassroots organizations(like Velvet Revolution and Alliance for Democracy).

I'll just have to see how it would work out, afterall Dean has only been chair for four days.

This isn't partisan, it's personal. It's not about compromising, the Repubs will only take advantage of that. It's about standing up and fighting for what we know is right!

I have any faith in Dean. This was an excellent article yet again by Krugman.

It is NOT about moving to the center or moving to the right or "I'm more pure & Liberal than thou"- it's about making a stand.

I hope Dean can fight the GOP/media- lord knows most DEMS cannot or refuse to.

We will never get the Democratic party back into power in this country until it can represent most Americans. Retreating into the left will only worsen our problems.

Dean is right on target. He made reference to MAINTAINING OLD VALUES.

We don't need a "new America". We need to refurbish the old one, which was working just fine.

Bush has tried to push the middle right over the ultra-conservative cliff. He is trying to reshape the most basic stance in politics.

Dean sure has some good things to say here. And he is saying what a lot of people that I've met are saying. They think Kerry was some regional Boston liberal, but they are scared of Bush. They want a populist and a true centrist.

:kick:

Most middle-class people I know have "bad" images of Democrats as "liberals" -- but they would vote for a Democrat who would spoke a true economic "populist" message and who seemed fairly moderate. Many people I know chose Bush as the lesser of two evils: They didn't like Bush and were actually more than a little afraid of what he's been doing, but were put-off by the "liberal" label the Bush campaign stuck on Kerry (which Kerry, in my opinion, did not do enough to cast off).

I think Dean will appeal to these people.

We need to define what a liberal is, not let the right define it.

Here is what John Kennedy said about it.

Sen. John F. Kennedy, acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination, September 14, 1960.

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."


There is much more to his speach go here

http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/whatis.html

I agree, we have to better define it. Since the day when JFK said those stirring words, there is much water under the bridge: Vietnam, the failure of many well-intentioned Great Society programs, etc., etc. Right now the word "liberal" is an effective "slur" in some sense, a shorthand way of saying "high taxing, big government program, soft on defense Democrat".

If a politician would come along who could explain what a "liberal" is these days as eloquently as JFK, we'd be in great shape (unfortunately, John Kerry was not that man).

I thought it was interesting that JFK said back then,

"If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal."

Maybe things haven't changed as much as I thought...

us. If we do it will only distract us from doing what we need to do. They want to keep us in a defeatist mode but we don't have to go there.

We don't have to compromise our beliefs to win. We don't have to appeal to the conservative voter by co-opting their positions on issues to win.

We are people of faith too. We believe in what Christ talked about in the Gospels. We believe in government fiscal responsibility. We believe in peace in the Middle East and on and on.

Don't let the right define us anymore. Those tactics should have less and less effect if we work to defend our core beliefs.

It's been the American way for over 200 years. If liberals roll over and play dead, we're doomed as a country.

Howard Dean is not a leftist. When you think far left, think Abby Hoffman et al.

Howard Dean is a centrist.An extraordinarily brave centrist who is not afraid, and not afraid to speak the truth.

He is exactly the man the Democrats need to steer the ship.

F--- the Republicans. They smear Dean because they know courage and logic when they see it, and they don't like it. It's a lot harder to fight courage and conviction than it is to fight division and apathy.
The Republicans are terrified of the truth in Dean's conviction.

I'll walk the path of courage and logic with Dr. Dean. It makes a lot more sense than walking down the dark path of fear and deception that the repubs want us to walk.

He doesn't like neoconservatives, and neither do I. It's okay to say that in public. The repubs sure as hell have been less than kind to the left in public.

God is saving a special place in heaven for Howard Dean.

Well I won’t back down, no I won’t back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won’t back down

Gonna stand my ground, won’t be turned around
And I’ll keep this world from draggin’ me down
Gonna stand my ground and I won’t back down

Hey baby, there ain’t no easy way out
Hey I will stand my ground
And I won’t back down.

Well I know what’s right, I got just one life
In a world that keeps on pushin’ me around
But I’ll stand my ground and I won’t back down

Hey baby there ain’t no easy way out
Hey I will stand my ground
And I won’t back down
No, I won’t back down

-Tom Petty

Go, Centrists, go!

http://counterpunch.org/cp02152005.html

Yay, I want universal health care for citizens under 25 years old with concessions to the GOP and pharmaceutical industry!

Yay, I want to raise the devastating unlivable minimum wage by 50 cents! 3 people in the US will move above the poverty line due to this change and I will fight for them tooth and nail!

Yay, I want to restore 10 of the 50 education programs that the * budget has cut!

Yay, I want US troops to stay in Iraq indefinitely even though I was against the war previously! Anyone who calls me a flipflopper is a jerk and I will fight them! Grrr...

huh!? Why fight for moderation with corporatists? Does this even make sense to you? Most people on DU are not centrists or moderates. We should be doing something else with our time:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1235209#1239341