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Bush is NOT Hilter - stop referring to him as that

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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:03 PM
Original message
Bush is NOT Hilter - stop referring to him as that
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 03:04 PM by LynneSin
I mean, Hitler got away with that those horrors for years until the rest of the world caught on. We liberals along with the rest of the world know what Bush is trying to do - just a matter of getting our wacked out media to start reporting on it!
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ProudToBeLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, equating bush hitler is just wrong.
I would rather attack the issues and policy then the person.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. moreover, attacking him yields sympathy from the population
The last damned thing I want is for my neighbors to feel sorry for the SOBarbara
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. It makes us look like wingnuts
Bush is Bush, Hitler is Hitler. There is no comparison---no matter how bad Bush is it pales in comparison to the violence and suffering Hitler created
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
86. LOL wingnut! n/t
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #86
112. Bush is far more dangerous because...........
He thinks he was put here to start 'armageddon'. Why do you think they are so damn interested in Syria? So they can go into Lebanon, where the Armageddon valley is. The religious right wants him to start a thermonuclear war and he may be stupid enough to do it. Their goal? Erase all of humanity so they can "Float up into heaven" in their 'rapture' fantasy. Their religious beliefs/fantasys make Hitler look like a petty tyrant.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. You can attack his behavioru & his propaganda and say it is Hitler like -
because it is. Nobody is saying the man should be killed because he is stupid and easily used. They just say he should not be President. And failing that sinking in then he should not be DESTABILIZING THE WORLD. Also something Hitler did.

The neocons studied Hitler and admired him. The comparison is not only accurate, it goes to the base of what it means to be a neocon and be in neocon wars.

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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. No doubt he is the worst president in US history bar none
and his administration is stripping away civil rights and social protections that took the better part of American history to establish...

He is TERRIBLE, he is beyond any refutation BUSH!

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googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
79. But he has not built gas ovens for 6 million liberals n/t
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #79
94. He made people hate each other like they never had before in his
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 10:42 PM by applegrove
first term in office. who am I talking about here? Bush? Hitler? You don't know do you? . We don't want to get as far as the 'ovens' (only this time it will be the poor eating out of garbage cans or starving and women dying in alleys if they are poor & desperate). We are hitting back early.

The patterns & tools Bush uses are those of the sociopath. Deal with it!!!
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #79
113. True he and Roverer don't want their fingerprints on such things.
Moreover, Bush's Reaganesque neoliberal fantasy drives policies and practices that are stealing wealth and destroying the middleclass--
something that Hitler and the Nazzi's supported at least on paper.

I don't think Hitler shares fascist or nazi ideology, but that doesn't shake my faith that he is absolutely the worst president in United States History.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
87. Are you kidding me... your actually going to try to manipulate this
argument by trying to tell me I "have to say he's Hitler like" WTF bushitler bushitler bushitler, no other name for him!
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #87
96. No that is what I say. I don't think Bush is Hitler so much as the Chump
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #96
104. bushitler is bushitler not hitler. n/t
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
108. They already have backtracked on their 'methods'. Calling them on
their horrid behaviour and use of the 'tools of the sociopath' works. They are ashamed to be caught with their pants down. When we see propaganda, or behaviour that reminds us of Hitler or a sociopath - we will call it as we see it.

Up to them really - stop it with the grandiosity. Your neocon plans failed. Put the SS plan on the table so that people can discuss it. Stop giving your elites everything they want Mr. Rove.
Stop the propaganda. Don't pretend to love FDR just so we can be blind-sided when you decide to erase the New Deal. Don't shut up people who ask good question. Don't go after their families. Don't target our greatest politicians with smear campaigns. Make the President take responsibility for any bad behaviour by swift boat veterans or the man in the office next door the the Oval one. Rumour and inuendo are just as bad as lying. Stop stealing all the Liberal heroes and deciding what icon you want in your knew world. The 'world' is out there, it is old as the hills and you will be nothing but a fucking freckle on it. Deal with that. Shut up if you get an itch to widen faults between two groups of people. Just jerk off or rent a movie or hire a prostitute or do what you have to do to make it better - but leave the fault lines that many people have worked very hard to bridge ALONE.


I could go so on with this list of things Bush & his handlers need to do if they want me to stop calling them sociopathic. I could go on for pages.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why would they do that? nt
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Padme Amidala Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
66. Perhaps because he is Hitler.
Oh, sorry. I guess we're not supposed to tell the truth about the fact that BUSH IS HITLER. Bush's family financed Hitler. Bush has put more of Hitler's policies in place faster than Hitler ever dreamed of. But, sorry, I was telling the truth again.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. "getting our wacked out media to start reporting"
That's what im askin' about...... nothing up til now has had any effect and they are getting their quid pro quo.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. You're right....... He's the ANTICHRIST!
sorry. couldn't stop myself. i get your point though.

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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
64. You HAVE to see this website then
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Ah - another one - I've seen several so far and can't say I disagree. eom
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. So what you're saying is bush* WANTS to be Hitler, he just isn't there,
YET. Not very comforting.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Is "Bushler" ok?
just asking.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree
It's unfair to Hitler: at least he won an election.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. I agree
Bushco is nothing compared to the nazis. The patriot Act does not even come close to the Emergency Powers Act of 1933, for example and Iraq can hardly compare with the vast death and destruction that Hitler released in Poland and the Soviet Union (6 million and 27 million dead, respectively from each nation)
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Exactly. He may be thousands of times worse than a Charles
Manson; but he's no Hitler.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. But Bush-Co. is making a beginning ...
Listen to the disparaging ways RW attack dogs describe almost anyone who does not agree with *. Further, THINK every time they say "liberal" insert "Jew" (as was the case in Nazi Germany) instead? See the startling similarities of the present to the fledgling formation of Nazi Germany?

It's building ohh so slowly but entrenched as hell. The world knew what was going on back then, but they NEVER thought it would effect them; and Germans thought it was always "others" who would be the next group identified for discrimination, and later extermination. Hummm ... Bushler? :evilfrown:
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
78. You only empower BUSHITLER more by not understanding
the seriousness of what he's done. HE IS WORSE THAN HITLER! He doesn't discriminate between one race or another race, he just wants 99% of the American and every other countries population to be under his complete control! Guess what Hitler wanted that too but he AT least ATTEMPTED to make people believe for a while that he wasn't after the entire world. BUSHITLER has not attempted to hide that fact at all and, yes, he KNEW and supplied information to the terrorists. You must be wearing blinders if you can not see what is going on here. This version of Hitler is living in a modern age and can accomplish MUCH worse in a MUCH shorter time frame.

I will not stop calling him by his GIVEN name. And I agree with the other post that called him the ANTICHRIST. His full name may be BUSHITLER LUCIFER ANTICHRIST SATAN as far as I'm concerned. WAKE UP! This is not Disneyland, we don't have time to convince those that should already BE convinced. I don't give a good ___damn whether the freeps are angry. They are likely to shit their pants when the Gannon/Guckert shit hits the fan. Do any digging around and the whole ball of wax COLLAPSES! Everything they believe, everything they have been told, is part of a MASSIVE cover-up that has the potential to bring somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70% of our government down to their knees. Wealthy elite pedophiles running our country is NO ACCEPTABLE. Do you know why they want to cut social programs? To make it easier for them to get there filthy hands on poor children!

This isn't just about Dem's vs Republicans any more this is about good verses evil and I will call BUSHITLER SATAN anything I damn well please. HE IS EVIL.

BTW, there is a thread right here on DU that discusses all this. The proof isn't there yet, but I assure you a little investigating into this matter and you will no longer believe it is appropriate to call him anything other than the DEVIL. Gannon/Guckert is likely number one on his accidented/suicided list because he's about to blow the whole thing wide open simply because he asked a silly question that was heard by too many curious people.

Gannon/Guckert has something on them and he is terrified. He knows he MUST get the MEDIA to see him every day all the time. It is the only thing that will keep him safe!
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
109. so...
you're essentially saying that although he is evil, Bullsh is less competent than Hitler?
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. When Democracy Failed
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independentchristian Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
76. Thom Hartman is definitely the man n/m
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loveable liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'd say he's more like Stalin anyway...with the purges and all....
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 03:12 PM by loveable liberal
These days you dont have to kill your opponent, just discredit them...
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. He would be more like Joe Mccarthy than Stalin
Stalin killed 10s of millions and had tens of millions more used as slave labor in the Gulag system.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
105. I Made This Point On Another Thread
earlier this week. The McCarthy Era seems just about right. It's the suppression that's going on that hits the nail on the head!

I saw a bumper sticker on a car a couple of days ago that said "I'm against rights for everyone!" I didn't connect it a first, then it dawned on me that they were talking about people who want to give certain inalienable rights to all Americans!

I can't say it's a shock, but that drum keeps getting pounded. We most definitely have to keep up OUR mantra to, and in a cohesive, intelligent way. It may take lots of time and ANGST, but even though it may look bleak now, in the past MOST politics have been cyclical! People get tired of the same old crap and perhaps with a little help, they will begin to see just how much has been taken away.

At any rate, we can only HOPE!
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Village Idiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. I agree:
After all, as I keep pointing out, Hitler increased productivity, manufacturing efficiency, and expanded his manufacturing base to help national industries and HELP HIS COUNTRY OUT OF A DEPRESSION before attempting World Conquest.
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Actually...
... Hitler helped create enormous inflation due to deficit spending for arms, in part by promising large returns and prompt payment to his corporate elite and by promising them ex officio status in the government. Sound familiar?
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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bush is not Hitler. He's not a fascist.
It demeans us to engage in such gutter attacks. eom
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. LMAO.... sarcasm, right?
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. He and his family may not be Nazis; but they are fascists.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. They are Nazi-enablers at best.
And if you enable a Nazi, is that really any better than being one?

Those who deny similarities between the Chimp and Hitler always use the 1945 view of Hitler as a comparison. And true enough, even with 100,000 Iraqi civilians slaughtered and even assuming willful negligence in 9-11, the Monkey is still minor league compared to Adolf's final numbers.

But what they forget is that Hitler didn't go from zero to 20 million overnight. He took a deliberate path to build up to that level of evil, and Junior has already mirrored several of his early steps.

Rove is a descendent of a Nazi as is Herr Gropenfuhrer. And Junior's relatives made the whole thing possible.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
44. Look into Prescott Bush and the pro Nazi groups he supported..
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 03:46 PM by Griffy
When he was a Conn. Senator. The master race has evoloved into a master religion concept, disquised as "liberty", which is code to the evangelists for christanity. look here if you wanna knmmow about fascism...

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=8023

.. and the media is part of the problem.. it called PROPAGANDA and that why we are here, because the majority of Americans are being misled. It was the same in 30's Germany, some people saw what was happening with the state sponsored media, but they had no internet...

Jews then are Gays now.. a group to demonize!

It is true bush hasnt yet killed the millions that hitler killed... but bush is still at bat, and hitler never got the Abomb, bush has thousands! To say he is not following many basic fascist practices is to believe the PROPAGANDA! (or not understand fascism..)
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jasop Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Bush is a Fascist. Check your facts.
Every single one of these is a BushCo characteristic.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/The_14_characteristics_030303.htm
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. That could also refer to many, many leaders
Bush is a whole new form of regime---a mixture of democracy, theocracy and fascism, with a Nice :) face
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
49. No the democracy is what is under the gun. And the theocracy is just
the using of the religious right to get into power. They are just there to clean up the mess for free when the whole safety net is dismantled.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Fascist are Utopians (or they pretend to be). Neocons are Utopians
Who exactly do you want Bush to be compared with? Churchill? Cause Churchill did not start a series of wars and destabilize the planet. Churchill did not cause the entire modern world to run around and form alliances. So that Churchill comparison they slip into Bush's bubble in totally inaccurate.

Who - in say the last 200 years would you compare Bush and his Utopian friends to?

Because really I got so tired of the freepers on the other boards trying desperately to put fascism onto the 'left end' of the scale. The neocons copied Disraeli's musings on Conservatism in the 19th Century and to update the 20th Century they took the blame for WWII out of Hitler's hands and put it into the hands of Woodrow Wilson. Historical magic is required in order to get patriotism (pride) to be considered a good thing in the annals of recent History. If you are a freeper let me remind you that Hitler was Right Wing. Right Wing Fascists are Utopians and use patriotism to control the masses. Just like George Bush and Rove & Neocons.

Do you think if the neocons can base a whole philosophy on Hitler and do so over the course of 60 years of study - do you think we could use Hitler to compare Bush... pretty please!! Actually don't answer that because I don't care.

The fact is that Hitler is a great case to compare Bush to because Hitler as a sociopath used the tools of sociopaths. Bush & his handlers use them too. There simply isn't a better case of a sociopath (or sociopathic tool user) getting into power in a democracy and starting with the propaganda as Hitler is.

Psssst the comparison of Bush to Churchill is for inside his bubble alone - it was meant to cheer him up
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Bush is a reactionary/neo-con
I would say his is a whole new system---with elements of democracy, theocracy and imperialism
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Referring to * as Hitler (or Stalin) really, really shows a lack
of perspective. It reduces the effectiveness of the epithet when there really is somebody as bad as Hitler.

It's like saying that having your foot stepped on is as bad as what happened in Nanking.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. On the other hand, is a man who kills 100,000 innocent people
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 03:30 PM by Benhurst
morally superior to one who kills millions? Is morality nothing but a numbers game?
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. 27,000,000 died in the USSR alone
that is from June 22, 1941 to May 8, 1945. less than 4 years.

And besides, there is no definite evidence of 100,000---it could be as low as 17,000 and anywhere in between.

the 100,000 is not civilian casualties either. It includes combatants.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
43. The Johns Hopkins study put it at 100,000. But let's accept 17,000
for the sake of argument. Is a man who murders 17,000 people morally superior to one who kills millions?

Is Charles Manson morally superior to George Walker Bush?

If so, then morality is nothing but a numbers game, a matter of statistics, as Joe Stalin so famously stated.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. I'm not sure if we're talking about the same study,
but one widely cited "100 000" figure isn't the number of Iraqis killed by the US. It has the same kind of really wide error margins.

It compared death rates before March 2003 and after. It concluded that 100k (+/- 85k, more or less) died in a certain period after the invasion stopped than would have if the invasion hadn't occurred. This includes a bunch of different people--combatants in uniform, kids near an IED, those killed by a self-appointed Islamist court, people killed because there were more murders, people killed in self-defence during robberies, people who died of illness and of old age.

And the methodology was sample clustering (explaining why the possible error was so high). Drop out one place in the Sunni Triangle, and the death toll drops. Precipitously. And I'm not convinced the informants were all reliable without knowing more about the cultures involved.

In some sense, * would be responsible for all of the above. But only if you buy the Grand Inquisitor argument from The Brothers Karamazov, and deny responsibility to those actually doing the deeds.

Consider Stalin and some woman who kills her husband because he's cheating on her. Both are wrong. They've crossed the line. In terms of one kind of morality, they're the same. Even though Stalin really did think (I think) that his killing millions of his erstwhile countrymen was the right thing to do.

But the judgment as to morality takes any account of the amount of suffering and pain involved, Stalin's worse. Far worse.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
50. Even Hitler had to start somewhere. Bush & neocons have only
been in power for 5 years. Think what another decade will do? But the comparison to Hitler in the 1930s works perfectly fine.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #32
65. Give Bush time
He'll hit those numbers yet.
He's a late bloomer after all.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #65
116. Do I have to? n/t
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
68. FREEPER! eom
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googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #32
80. 6 million jews and others were gassed by Hitler in mass murder
How many liberals have been gassed in the US?
Therefor comparing Hitler to Bush shows complete ignorance
of historical facts. Bush is arrogant, reckless, right wing
zealot, but that is eons away from a Hitler.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. The whole point is that the propaganda is Hitlerlike. It is. So are
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 04:09 PM by applegrove
the manufactured crisis

the bullying of opposition & the press

the isolation of the people inside from the outside world

the puppeteering of traditional leadership

the propaganda

the playing groups off against each other (Christians & gays) or the wedging of issues to serve a political purpose but whose wounds will fester for generations

the militarism & worship of patriarchal norms forming a 'tight bundle of wood' which is where the word 'fascist' comes from.

the forced teaming we see when Bush & neocons and GOP mouthpieces praised FDR when they were planning on destroying everything FDR stood for including: SS, government intervention to help regular people, UN, transfers of wealth every generation, and defensive or pre-emptive war, etc. This 'teeming' of Bush & Co with FDR was meant to make Americans feel safe and say "naw they wouldn't - they wouldn't destroy my sacred trust". A psychopath will use the same tool when they 'meet' a runaway at a bus station and become fast friends with them for all that they have in common - it makes one's guard go down'. Bush & his White House are not like the average American.

the scapegoating of one group after another to motivate the base and get the electorate into their baser instincts mode to hide from some truth they don't want explained. France, the UN, come to mind. There will be more scapegoats. And Bush will continue to deny any knowledge or participation & leadership therein (ie:swiftboat veterans for the truth now morph into going after the AARP).

the encouragement of adolescent black & white thinking instead of shades of grey encourages regression back to adolescence and allows a disconnect to take place between a freeper's actions and what the effect is on others. If your government says you are no responsible for your actions - you will scapegoat (ignoring the Bible) and persecute (anyone who speaks against the administration & its tactics either has to be retired, or ready to be) and their family has to be ready for the outcome too.

All of these things were things that Hitler did and promoted and repeatedly implemented throughout the 1930s. We follow the Enlightenment here at the DU. Sorry - but this is a Limbaugh free zone - we follow the history as written and discussed and argued by millions of intellectuals over the last few hundred years. The untested outside the lab of a livingroom and victimized rantings of about 15 people that are 1) untested 2)Utopian 3)based on giving up all the assumptions we make as human beings - well that just isn't enough to convince me Bush isn’t "stepping on my foot". Looks like everyone in the World are making Alliances against & without the USA? That is a problem! No corporation in the World would throw away 200 years of 'goodwill' in one fell adolescent big oil induced wet dream. And though the UN and Europe are willing to cover for your mistakes and try and make something out of Iraq – they do it to save lives not because they have any respect for Bush. It is much the same (though obviously not on the same scale) as the West's overtures to North Korea to keep them in the brotherhood of mankind (or try to).

Mankind’s assumptions are "out" with these neocons. Neocons have the “prissy, black & white thinking, patrician” they wrote about in the mid- 1960s. The one they needed to get the WH and have complete control over. Bush is a puppet. Some of those around him admire and use the tools of Hitler – a sociopath. They admired how 'efficient' Hitler was. They admired how he could size people and groups up for all their assumptions (feelings). They do not admire the feelings or the people. The people are just in the way. Hitler too destroyed all those who he couldn't use.

The comparison of the Bush Administration & WH to Hitler & their tools to those Hitler or any sociopath would use is intellectually, morally and psychologically exact.
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dhinojosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. You don't think the liberals in Nazi Germany....
knew what Hitler was trying to do or was doing - and it was just a matter of getting their wacked out media to start reporting on it!


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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
52. And when the wacked media did report it in Germany - they got wacked
. Sound familiar? Pretty soon the media moguls will be looking at their revenues and they will be say: "why did we separate from our viewership? Why did we do that? They all went to blogs". And they will be one more victim of Bush & co.

Nobody wins with sociopaths. Nobody!! (And Bush is not the sociopath just the puppet).
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
25. I disagree that the world DID NOT know what Hitler was doing
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 03:25 PM by jonnyblitz
until years later, the world knew but was apathetic. I guess that's what I get for reading history books with a left wing slant. that being said, I dont compare Bush to Hitler anyway.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. But we do know the pattern. Because we are enlightened. And we share
information good!
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
26. He's not Hitler, he's Bush
but there are undeniable similarities, as I see it. He may not be doing the things Hitler did, but he uses his playbook to convince Americans of what he wants to convince them.

For example, nationalism in the guise of patriotism; invading other countries to rid the world of evil; using the media for unadulterated propaganda; making it unpatriotic to question the leader and his administration; villifying political opponents, etc...
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
54. Bush did do much of what Hitler did - at the start. Play by play.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
28. Here's what we do, then:
Let's give bu$h roughly the same ten years that the First Hitler had. bu$hler gets to put all his programs (pogroms) into place and carry out his agendas with the assistance of a willing propaganda machine (ABCCBSCNNNBCFOX) and the backing of a substantial herd of people who adore his ass. Then, we'll compare the two, okay?

Anybody wanna wait that long?

:evilgrin:
dbt
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reichstag911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. Bravo!
Another point I wanted to make in my post elsewhere on this thread: the time factor. Let's see, in Hitler's 1st 6+ years, he conquered two countries, Austria and Czechoslovakia (over the Sudetenland, nicht war? Bush: Afghanistan and Iraq. The difference so far is that Hitler didn't kill anywhere near as many in his first 6 years as Bush has thus far. Remember, also, that Bush has 2 years to go before he's got 6 years under his belt, and he's already got Iran and Syria in our gun sights.
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reichstag911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. "...getting our wacked out media to start reporting on it..."
And how do you propose to do that, pray tell? Me, I'm fresh out of ideas on how to set editorial policy in any mainstream media vehicles, so help me out here. Compare and contrast: 1) Clinton gets a blow job -- SCLM goes nuts; and 2) a gay hooker masquerading as a journalist gets preferential treatment in White House press conferences, and the SCLM is largely silent.

Anyway, check out http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1620829&mesg_id=1620829 on the Bush/Hitler comparisons, which I find more valid than your Pollyanna-ish expectation that the media will save us all. They're bought and paid for, just like "Jeff Gannon's" services as a "top."
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. I know. I am so sick of watching Michael Jackson, so forth.
And Prince Charles. AAARRRGHHHHHHH. Even Keith is reporting this stuff.
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Dave Sund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
31. I find it...
alternately humorous and disturbing that those who suggest we not call Bush Hitler are laughed at... one person in this thread actually suggested that a poster was being sarcastic for suggesting it.

Merely SUGGESTING that Bush is Hitler or that Republicans are fascists destroys any ounce of credibility you may have with other Americans.

Not to mention the fact that it's incredibly offensive to WWII veterans, Jewish Americans, and anyone with any sort of perspective of history.

It's a ridiculous comparison, and it gets us nowhere.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. umm....Bush actually isn't a Republican
By their fruits shall ye know them.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. those with "any sort of perspective of history" learn from history
...and recognize when someone is following a similar path to Hitler's.

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Dave Sund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. We have a constitution
We have laws, we have a strong opposition, we have a world that hates Bush, and a country that isn't very pleased with him. We have elections, and we have term limits.

Hitler had absolute power, and killed those who dissented, as well as millions of others.

Defending a rational position should not be this much of a chore. I feel like I'm arguing with freepers.
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Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
63. We have a Constitution that was designed to protect slavery.

We have no effective opposition in the White House, Congress, the Supreme Court, or the mainstream media.

We have elections with voter suppression and vote-rigging.

I wonder what the unembedded journalists who have been killed in Iraq, and appear to have been deliberately targeted by the U.S. military, would say, if they were alive, about how dissenters are treated by this regime.

We have a world that hates Bush, and a country full of child-molesters who love him for his "family values." Kiddie porn sites get millions of hits a day and all those people vote Republican or Libertarian. We have a patriarchal, white-supremacist society and corporations control our government.

Just because Hitler was more intelligent and well-spoken that Bush, and was actually elected, doesn't mean there's no comparison.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, so I think that tolerance of dissent has to start with allowing historical comparisons.

There is a big difference between saying Bush is Hitler (he isn't--Hitler is dead and Bush is not), and saying that BFEE policies are similar to Nazi policies in specific ways, or that the Bush agenda is similar to Hitler's agenda in specific ways. But whenever anyone makes an appropriate comparison, others rush to defend Bush by saying it is wrong to call him Hitler. There's a big, important difference between mere name-calling, and comparative political analysis.

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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
114. Hitler was elected.
Edited on Fri Feb-25-05 11:07 AM by IMModerate
"we have a world that hates Bush, and a country that isn't very pleased with him"

So why was he re-elected?

--IMM
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #31
57. You just made that up! More than half the country sees the pattern
How is it going - Karl?
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
61. I never called bush Hitler
I have and will continue to call him and his cabal Fascist...because it's true.


http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
36. Bush is the American Hitler and Torquemada rolled into one
The Reichstag fire was on February 27, 1933. September 11, 2001, was the American equivalent of the Reichstag fire.

Published on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 by CommonDreams.org

When Democracy Failed - 2005
The Warnings of History

by Thom Hartmann

This weekend - February 27th - is the 72nd anniversary, but the corporate media most likely won't cover it. The generation that experienced this history firsthand is now largely dead, and only a few of us dare hear their ghosts.

It started when the government, in the midst of an economic crisis, received reports of an imminent terrorist attack. A foreign ideologue had launched feeble attacks on a few famous buildings, but the media largely ignored his relatively small efforts. The intelligence services knew, however, that the odds were he would eventually succeed. (Historians are still arguing whether or not rogue elements in the intelligence service helped the terrorist. Some, like Sefton Delmer - a London Daily Express reporter on the scene - say they certainly did not, while others, like William Shirer, suggest they did.)

But the warnings of investigators were ignored at the highest levels, in part because the government was distracted; the man who claimed to be the nation's leader had not been elected by a majority vote and the majority of citizens claimed he had no right to the powers he coveted.

He was a simpleton, some said, a cartoon character of a man who saw things in black-and-white terms and didn't have the intellect to understand the subtleties of running a nation in a complex and internationalist world.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0222-22.htm
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dhinojosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. Those that don't learn from history and destined to repeat it....
..and if you don't see the patterns and compare against what history has taught us then you will be culpable for giving another growing dictator another blank check.

Comparing Bush to Hitler, or to Stalin, or to others and finding similarities is the patriotic thing to do. Learning through comparison is essential in determining greater threats to ourselves and others.
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Jehanatu Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
41. The two key differences are
charisma and intelligence. Hitler was an accomplished tactician and was brim full of charisma. Bush is a bumbling, incompetent fool with little charisma.

Get it straight!
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. The distinct similarity is
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 04:39 PM by ProudDad
That Hitler was a product of his times just as shrub is a product of his.

He's the mouthpiece for the advanced state of Imperial Denial that the right-wing has made of this society over the last 30 years.


(I was going to say more but in this fascist society, I have to censor myself now...)
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Emboldened Chimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
45. Bush lacks the imagination to be Hitler

He's a venal, insidious, thin-skinned little punk with sap between his ears and a mommy-complex. He's a menace to this country and a scourge to the rest of the world. He's letting that gang of thieves he calls friends and family loot our treasury till there's nothing left. He'll spread death and violence to the four corners of the earth because Dick Cheney told him to. He would even piss on the grave of Jesus himself if it made him a nickel. But he's no Hitler.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
51. No. Now I really MEAN it. He's the ANTICHRIST! You've gotta see this!
Evangelical Churches Recruiting?!?!?!

I wouldn't have believed it without seeing it with my own eyes in the photos.

The print is small and you may need to make it bigger to read but DO check this out. It's posted by a kid who was taken to a special church night by his Dad and decided to try out his new digital camera.

I mean, hey --- it makes sense --- might as well go where the people are already used to being brainwashed, right?

Jesus-F'ing-Christ - This is getting scarier by the day!!!

quotes from the main article:

"After that, they had guys wearing the traditional US uniforms over time walk out in order while scenes from a Jesus movie I cant recall played. I was never aware of voodoo style witch doctors, or Indiana Jones being members of our military (far left and second from right respectively in the first pic). I think it’s kinda funny that unless I’m wrong that fellow on the far left of the second pic is wearing a confederate uniform. I know it’s ridiculously bad taste but yes, that really is Jesus on the cross in the first picture…in behind our troops. When the final modern troop stepped out too the front and center he thrust his rifle one handed into the air to shouts of approval, the Jesus footage was still playing, and at that particular point even my dad was uncomfortable.

(snip)

At this point Captain Sturecker preached to us in full dress uniform about his early faith was based in fear of going to hell, but now he doesn’t need to fear death, and about his experiences in the black hawk afair. In particular he prayed after his first drive back to base (If you‘ve seen the movie, he was the humvee driver with the injured man on strecher in the back. He was also the guy that said, “The difference in between heroes and cowards isn‘t the fear it‘s what they do with it”), and after that even though the vehicle was shot to hell, he had no casualties. He even watched an RPG barely miss its’ mark and deflect off his hood. Every word of this might be true, but it was also part of a “The lord will protect you in the military” themed sermon. I have never had both respect and disgust for a single individual with such volume in my life. When I asked him for a picture with him holding the same bible he is in the sermon picture I think my attitude came off as “fan boy”."

(snip)

And if you still try to tell me this administration will not attack Iran, there is no way I would remotely believe you. And I even question how they will manage to do such an insane thing. Instead of a draft (at least for the mean time), we have such sick invasion of places of worship? I am not sure which is worse. Wow...wow...wow.

I'm truly speechless. This is very significant. This has to be illegal. How can this be? "

=============================================================================

CLICK HERE FOR THE STORY AND ALL PHOTOS:

http://shlonkombakazay.blogspot.com/2005/02/efficient-version-holy-st-its-fascist.html



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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
55. OMG YOU FASCIST DON'T CENSOR US!!!!111!!!1
But seriously, I agree.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
56. My Girlfriend's German mom thinks so
My girlfriend's mom lived throught the Nazi era in Germany. She and her husband watched Dresden burn for 3 days.

She was recently watching Rumsfeld on the news and remarked, "If you put a little moustache and a uniform with a swastika on that guy..."

She's very disturbed about having to live through it all again...

Face it, this country is becomming more fascist every year.

Ok, I take your point. How about Mussolini?

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
59. As with all sociopaths - it is the pattern that should be watched - not
the details. They fool you with details. Why they like to get their followers to think in black & white and go back to adolescence. The young think in details. The old see 'the forest for the trees'. The old see the patterns. That is how you identify the psychopathic or sociopathic tools users. Patterns.

That is why the WWII generation are so upset. Because they don't buy all the tootin & marching band music and stuff. These people have lived lives and they know what poverty looked like because they saw it as kids. The saw long lines of starving people. They know what pain and humiliation are. George Bush is planning on ripping our all the changes and sacrifices these people made to have a great country. And George Bush is doing this for his elite friends.

Don't you think that the old grandad down the street knew dam well that if he didn't pay any taxes his whole working life that he would be rich? He knew that and he paid taxes. Because he was real. And he knew what real life was about. And he knew what a privilege it was to be an American. And with privilege comes responsibility. He knew that - Bush does not. Bush is an ***hole and a child.

Boy King. Just like the impulsive and sexually inadequate Hitler. Adolescence in power. What a beautiful sight to behold.

The patterns are what you look out for with sociopaths. The patterns.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
60. No, he's more like a cross between Mussolini and Gomer Pyle.
With a touch of Minnie Pearl thrown in.

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Acryliccalico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
62. Sorry, but I call a spade, a Spade!!!
:kick:
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The Gigmeister Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
69. NO!! We MUST disrespect the memory of 6 MILLION DEAD JEWS!!!
And countless other dead.

Yes...America is turning into Nazi Germany. Just ask some of the breathless propaganda spewers around her. You know the kind...Those who make us all look like kooks.

(You know who you are).
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Senior citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Some of us who are Jewish
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 07:32 PM by Senior citizen
feel that many Jews have disrespected the memory of the 6 million by forgetting to oppose genocide anywhere and everywhere it occurs.

When we said, "Never again!" did that just apply to Jews?

And don't worry about us making you look like a kook. Those of us who are truly concerned with human rights may look like we're all kooks to you, but you don't look like a kook to us.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. A million dead muslims doesn't count for anything?
nt
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googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #73
82. Are you including the 300,000 mass graves discovered SO FAR
in Iraq attributed to Saddam, Uday & Qusay in that million?
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SouthernDem2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #73
83. Who has killed a million Muslims??????
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #83
90. Several months ago...
it was reported that the Iraq War had killed some 100-200,000 civilians. That was before Fallujah was levelled, and the death toll would obviously be much higher now. Tally that, Afghanistan, and with no end in sight for the war, a million dead muslim civilians would be a conservative estimate.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. First of all, a 'poll' type survey reported that 100,000 was possible
the language was vague---it was an estimate. But the estimates made have been anywhere from 17,000---100,000 dead in Iraq, including combatants.
One million is without any factual basis whatsoever.

I suspect that the number is far lower than 100,000 and higher than 17,000 in Iraq.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. Yeah, yeah.
People say the same kind of thing about the holocaust.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #95
100. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
This is not the Holocaust. I am just pointing out facts.

The Holocaust has been reasearched for 60 years. Most reasearchers will agree that approximately 5.7 million jews and 5-6 million others were exterminated during WWII. It is not precise, but based on Nazi records, population surveys, witness testimony thay have come at that conclusion
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #69
88. You mean Like Cheney did, when he showed up in his snowblower gear
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 11:14 PM by impeachdubya
at Auschwitz?

Excuse me, but as someone who had relatives in the camps, please don't make blanket statements about what constitutes respecting their memory and what doesn't. No, Bush is not Hitler. But he and the corporatist/fundamentalist/neo-con goons pulling his strings display an appalling lack of respect for the democratic institutions in this country, legitimate, fair and transparent elections, the free press, and things like civil rights in this country and international conventions on human rights abroad. I think an EXCELLENT way to honor the memory of the 6 million dead Jews (and others) who perished under fascism is to be constantly on our vanguard against it's re-appearance in ANY form, be it through bloated jingoistic hyper-nationalism, religious intolerance and theocratic fundamentalism, or just plain old attacks on the US constitution. And Bush may not be a Nazi, but if you listen to, say, Ann Coulter or Michael Savage, and substitute "Jew" for "Liberal", it's impossible to conclude that there isn't a dangerously similar level of hate and vitriol buried in the rhetoric. I think pointing out where these trends can lead is a noble effort, certainly not one to be mocked as the work of "kooks".

On Edit: BTW, I was one of the people taking to task the poster who posted the inane thread, full of Right-Wing White Supremacist Links as "evidence", asserting that there are "Concentration Camps in the US". I don't think anyone is served by ridiculous hyperbole, but I do think that Bush and his pals, left unchecked, would be more than happy to take this country to a quasi-totalitarian place where an alliance of Fundamentalist nutjobs and multinational Ken Lay CEO types make all the rules. He's already done shit in his 4+ years that Reagan and his Daddy could only dream about. I happen to think the trends are dangerous enough to warrant at least tossing around the "F" word- Fascism.



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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
72. The world DID know what was happening... they were ignoring
and thinking that it wouldn't effect them.
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reichstag911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
74. He may not be "Hilter,"...
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 08:28 PM by reichstag911
...but no one's claimed that. We compare him to Hitler. :P
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IowaGuy Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
75. I'm no fan of Hitler, and don't mean to toot his horn, but....
he was elected in an undisputed election, he brought a country that was in economic ruin to the point of being a major super power on the planet....kind of indicates at a minimum at least a level of competence that does not exist with *
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googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. and Hitler murdered millions of jews in gas ovens, and caused the deaths
of millions of Germans by invading neighboring countries.
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
77. Bush is evil.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
84. Fuck bushitler! I call em as I see him and will continue to do so as I
don't like to be told what to do and it's not just "wrong" whiney butt! Torture in Brooklyn and theft of Social Security just too small examples. Then there is the crafting of 9/11.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
85. bushitler bushitler bushitler bushitler bushitler bushitler lalalalalal
bushitler:evilgrin:
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Dave Sund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
89. You understand this is why good people hate us?
We have no credibility if we start crying "fascism" right now.

Fascism cannot exist in America as long as we're still breathing.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. yes, it makes us look like loons
If yhou can't see the difference between Bush and Hitler, you must know very little about Nazi germany and WWII in Europe
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #89
98. Fascism is a state of mind. You are more than half-way there. n/t
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #89
106. Actually, "Good People" apparently hate me because I don't want my kids
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 11:25 PM by impeachdubya
learning creationist twaddle in their science class.

Good People hate me because I think birth control, not throwing doctors in jail, is the best way to reduce the number of abortions in this country.

Good people hate me because I don't give a flying philadelphia fuck if my gay neighbors want to get married and -gasp!- even call it marriage.

Good people hate me because I refuse to stop standing in their way as they try to turn this country into a Theocratic Fundamentalist Theme Park where the actions of individuals are micro-managed, but corporations can pump as much shit into the environment as the bottom line would like.

Good People hate me because I support the right of artists and musicians and other people to voice dissent, protest wars, and criticize this dumb-ass administration. Hell, I even think the right to free speech- including the right to burn a flag- is more important than keeping people from burning flags.

Good People hate me because I don't buy George Bush's penny-ante bullshit cowboy shtick, and I don't think someone who pumps his fist into the air and yells "feels good" as bombs start falling on other human beings is a "good, moral christian".

If those same good people want to hate me because I happen to think that all the flag-waving jingoistic bullshit, electoral shenanigans, wholesale corporate media whoredom and concurrant right-wing dissent suppression, combined with the screeching howl of a right-wing propaganda machine that spews hate and demonizes liberals in an ever-escalating fasion.... if I happen to think all that smells a little like, yes, fascism, then too bad. Those "good people" are part of the problem.

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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
92. Sorry, but NO! NO FRICKIN WAY!
This is NOT the time to get all P.C.! * MUST be EXPOSED!!!

* is directly responsible for MURDERING innocent people for NO reason!!! How is that NOT like HITLER???!!! :mad:

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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #92
101. It is also like Mao tse Tung
but I have never seen anyone compare Bush with Mao.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
97. yeah, the thread title says hiLTer
OK, he's no Hilter, and no Hitler either. He's just an asshole.

And the Germans knew, everybody knew. Even Americans knew. An operation that large - what was it like 6 million Jews and 5 million other people? can't go on without people knowing. They knew. Anyone who said anything would be sent to the camps too.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. Bush & Co. pattern like sociopaths - exactly like Hitler
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #99
102. and thousands of other leaders...
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #102
107. No - just like Hitler. Most leaders do not make the differences
between peoples in your country 5 times worse than they were in years before. Except Hitler did that. Milosvic. Whoever was on the radio in Rwanda. Pol Pot. So the propaganda comes in the form of freeper bulletin boards and Faux News instead of loudspeakers blaring all night long.

Do you honestly think freepers really needed to be taught that the UN was a evil thing that needed to be destroyed? The North & the South in the US have not been further apart than in 30 years.

They use the tools of sociopaths and some of the 'assistants' go even beyond that. Why even Peggy Noonan had to throw the GRANDIOSE BOMB at Bush's inauguration speech "Freedom - Liberty - Freedom - Liberty for the whole world" this January. I mean there were freepers who were listening to that speech who will actually believe that nobody had ever thought of freedom or liberty in the tropics of Cancer or Capricorn until George Bush Jr. came along in the year 2004. They think he is as great as George Washington. They are delusional and Bush & his handlers encourage that. Instead of teach their people that the world is changing and Ameirca cannot possibly keep its position - but that it could still be great... who lies to their own people when huge changes are needed.

And then they actually brag about realities and replacing one reality with another so quickly that all the historians & journalists will just have to watch the pompous grandiose one who made the quote & his friends be the actors?

The right wing Israelis also used some neocon wisdom and funded the baby group Hamas as a way to erode Yassir Arafat's power 15 years ago. That worked out really, really good didn't it?

Everybody else on the planet thinks that Bush & al are the closest thing a Democracy has seen to Hitler and his propaganda in the last 50 years. They are not normal politicians!

Why is it you want people on this board to be so misinformed? People on this board are worldly internationals. They can think for themselves. That mind control (& word control) is for folk who don't want to think and want to be spoonfed their greatest hopes with a shovel (and burry& hide from their greatest fears: that they are just humans like the rest of us). American Democrats are not happy that they have been sliced and diced like cattle and that half the country has fallen for sociopath-like leadership. With the propaganda and the 'changes of assumptions'. Rumsfield brags about looking at the assumptions. Someone in the White House bragged about 'reality changing' in a very, very grandiose way (I'll give you one guess). Bush's wife had to get up and ask people today - to believe her when she says her husband was not "dangerous". When the hell has that ever happened?
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martymar64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #102
110. How about we compare him to . .
Caligula
Pol Pot
Mao
Stalin
Jim Jones
Genghis Khan
Ivan the Terrible
Uriah Heep
Charlie Manson

Take your pick, any will do.
The point is, * is an extremely evil man who given the chance, will destroy our world. This SOS has his finger on the nuclear button and the way things are escalating vis a vis Russia and China aligning against us
with the rest of the world, Armageddon is starting to look extremely likely.

That's much more worse than Hitler's wildest wet dream.
He is not Hitler, he's worse!!! Quite defending him.

Peace

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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
103. Hitler was able to walk amidst entire cities of cheering people.
Bush can't do that. I am taking into account the efficient Nazi terror but it appears in works like The Triumph of the Will and old newsreels that Hitler sold the Germans the idea that he was their will personified. Bush can do no such thing. He's trying but half of us (maybe more now) aren't buying. He can't do a Mussolini either even with the media on his side. And that's saying a lot.
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DeathGrind Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
111. .....
Don't insult Hitler by comparing him to Bush.
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
115. Mike Malloy made a good point on last night's (repeat) show...
We need to find a new home for guys like Joe Lieberman. We (meaning the Democratic Party, and people like "Joementum") are much, much too eager to cave in to the Bush agenda. As Malloy said, Karl Rove sees AGREEMENT as WEAKNESS. There will NEVER be a bipartisan "partnership" as long as George W. Bush rests upon the throne. But we keep giving, giving, giving...thinking it's going to get us somewhere...and it DOES, actually. It leads us right into the heart of the Bush agenda.

I agree with your comment that "We liberals along with the rest of the world know what Bush is trying to do"...but I think the problem is much bigger than it being "just a matter of getting our whacked out media to start reporting on it"...

The problem is people like Joe Biden, Joe Lieberman, people who cave in and give Bush everything he wants.

And I'm not going to stir the Obama debate again, but he voted for Condi Rice, and that decision STILL sucks.

We need to stop being "Republican Lite."

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
117. YES he is read this by Thom Hartmann..Feb 27th is 70 anniversary Reichstag
aThe Warnings of History
by Thom Hartmann


The 70th anniversary wasn't noticed in the United States, and was barely reported in the corporate media. But the Germans remembered well that fateful day seventy years ago - February 27, 1933. They commemorated the anniversary by joining in demonstrations for peace that mobilized citizens all across the world.

It started when the government, in the midst of a worldwide economic crisis, received reports of an imminent terrorist attack. A foreign ideologue had launched feeble attacks on a few famous buildings, but the media largely ignored his relatively small efforts. The intelligence services knew, however, that the odds were he would eventually succeed. (Historians are still arguing whether or not rogue elements in the intelligence service helped the terrorist; the most recent research implies they did not.)

But the warnings of investigators were ignored at the highest levels, in part because the government was distracted; the man who claimed to be the nation's leader had not been elected by a majority vote and the majority of citizens claimed he had no right to the powers he coveted. He was a simpleton, some said, a cartoon character of a man who saw things in black-and-white terms and didn't have the intellect to understand the subtleties of running a nation in a complex and internationalist world. His coarse use of language - reflecting his political roots in a southernmost state - and his simplistic and often-inflammatory nationalistic rhetoric offended the aristocrats, foreign leaders, and the well-educated elite in the government and media. And, as a young man, he'd joined a secret society with an occult-sounding name and bizarre initiation rituals that involved skulls and human bones.

Nonetheless, he knew the terrorist was going to strike (although he didn't know where or when), and he had already considered his response. When an aide brought him word that the nation's most prestigious building was ablaze, he verified it was the terrorist who had struck and then rushed to the scene and called a press conference.

"You are now witnessing the beginning of a great epoch in history," he proclaimed, standing in front of the burned-out building, surrounded by national media. "This fire," he said, his voice trembling with emotion, "is the beginning." He used the occasion - "a sign from God," he called it - to declare an all-out war on terrorism and its ideological sponsors, a people, he said, who traced their origins to the Middle East and found motivation for their evil deeds in their religion.

Two weeks later, the first detention center for terrorists was built in Oranianberg to hold the first suspected allies of the infamous terrorist. In a national outburst of patriotism, the leader's flag was everywhere, even printed large in newspapers suitable for window display.

Within four weeks of the terrorist attack, the nation's now-popular leader had pushed through legislation - in the name of combating terrorism and fighting the philosophy he said spawned it - that suspended constitutional guarantees of free speech, privacy, and habeas corpus. Police could now intercept mail and wiretap phones; suspected terrorists could be imprisoned without specific charges and without access to their lawyers; police could sneak into people's homes without warrants if the cases involved terrorism.

To get his patriotic "Decree on the Protection of People and State" passed over the objections of concerned legislators and civil libertarians, he agreed to put a 4-year sunset provision on it: if the national emergency provoked by the terrorist attack was over by then, the freedoms and rights would be returned to the people, and the police agencies would be re-restrained. Legislators would later say they hadn't had time to read the bill before voting on it.

Immediately after passage of the anti-terrorism act, his federal police agencies stepped up their program of arresting suspicious persons and holding them without access to lawyers or courts. In the first year only a few hundred were interred, and those who objected were largely ignored by the mainstream press, which was afraid to offend and thus lose access to a leader with such high popularity ratings. Citizens who protested the leader in public - and there were many - quickly found themselves confronting the newly empowered police's batons, gas, and jail cells, or fenced off in protest zones safely out of earshot of the leader's public speeches. (In the meantime, he was taking almost daily lessons in public speaking, learning to control his tonality, gestures, and facial expressions. He became a very competent orator.)

Within the first months after that terrorist attack, at the suggestion of a political advisor, he brought a formerly obscure word into common usage. He wanted to stir a "racial pride" among his countrymen, so, instead of referring to the nation by its name, he began to refer to it as "The Homeland," a phrase publicly promoted in the introduction to a 1934 speech recorded in Leni Riefenstahl's famous propaganda movie "Triumph Of The Will." As hoped, people's hearts swelled with pride, and the beginning of an us-versus-them mentality was sewn. Our land was "the" homeland, citizens thought: all others were simply foreign lands. We are the "true people," he suggested, the only ones worthy of our nation's concern; if bombs fall on others, or human rights are violated in other nations and it makes our lives better, it's of little concern to us.

Playing on this new nationalism, and exploiting a disagreement with the French over his increasing militarism, he argued that any international body that didn't act first and foremost in the best interest of his own nation was neither relevant nor useful. He thus withdrew his country from the League Of Nations in October, 1933, and then negotiated a separate naval armaments agreement with Anthony Eden of The United Kingdom to create a worldwide military ruling elite.

His propaganda minister orchestrated a campaign to ensure the people that he was a deeply religious man and that his motivations were rooted in Christianity. He even proclaimed the need for a revival of the Christian faith across his nation, what he called a "New Christianity." Every man in his rapidly growing army wore a belt buckle that declared "Gott Mit Uns" - God Is With Us - and most of them fervently believed it was true.

Within a year of the terrorist attack, the nation's leader determined that the various local police and federal agencies around the nation were lacking the clear communication and overall coordinated administration necessary to deal with the terrorist threat facing the nation, particularly those citizens who were of Middle Eastern ancestry and thus probably terrorist and communist sympathizers, and various troublesome "intellectuals" and "liberals." He proposed a single new national agency to protect the security of the homeland, consolidating the actions of dozens of previously independent police, border, and investigative agencies under a single leader.

He appointed one of his most trusted associates to be leader of this new agency, the Central Security Office for the homeland, and gave it a role in the government equal to the other major departments.

His assistant who dealt with the press noted that, since the terrorist attack, "Radio and press are at out disposal." Those voices questioning the legitimacy of their nation's leader, or raising questions about his checkered past, had by now faded from the public's recollection as his central security office began advertising a program encouraging people to phone in tips about suspicious neighbors. This program was so successful that the names of some of the people "denounced" were soon being broadcast on radio stations. Those denounced often included opposition politicians and celebrities who dared speak out - a favorite target of his regime and the media he now controlled through intimidation and ownership by corporate allies.

To consolidate his power, he concluded that government alone wasn't enough. He reached out to industry and forged an alliance, bringing former executives of the nation's largest corporations into high government positions. A flood of government money poured into corporate coffers to fight the war against the Middle Eastern ancestry terrorists lurking within the homeland, and to prepare for wars overseas. He encouraged large corporations friendly to him to acquire media outlets and other industrial concerns across the nation, particularly those previously owned by suspicious people of Middle Eastern ancestry. He built powerful alliances with industry; one corporate ally got the lucrative contract worth millions to build the first large-scale detention center for enemies of the state. Soon more would follow. Industry flourished.

But after an interval of peace following the terrorist attack, voices of dissent again arose within and without the government. Students had started an active program opposing him (later known as the White Rose Society), and leaders of nearby nations were speaking out against his bellicose rhetoric. He needed a diversion, something to direct people away from the corporate cronyism being exposed in his own government, questions of his possibly illegitimate rise to power, and the oft-voiced concerns of civil libertarians about the people being held in detention without due process or access to attorneys or family.

With his number two man - a master at manipulating the media - he began a campaign to convince the people of the nation that a small, limited war was necessary. Another nation was harboring many of the suspicious Middle Eastern people, and even though its connection with the terrorist who had set afire the nation's most important building was tenuous at best, it held resources their nation badly needed if they were to have room to live and maintain their prosperity. He called a press conference and publicly delivered an ultimatum to the leader of the other nation, provoking an international uproar. He claimed the right to strike preemptively in self-defense, and nations across Europe - at first - denounced him for it, pointing out that it was a doctrine only claimed in the past by nations seeking worldwide empire, like Caesar's Rome or Alexander's Greece.

It took a few months, and intense international debate and lobbying with European nations, but, after he personally met with the leader of the United Kingdom, finally a deal was struck. After the military action began, Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain told the nervous British people that giving in to this leader's new first-strike doctrine would bring "peace for our time." Thus Hitler annexed Austria in a lightning move, riding a wave of popular support as leaders so often do in times of war. The Austrian government was unseated and replaced by a new leadership friendly to Germany, and German corporations began to take over Austrian resources.

In a speech responding to critics of the invasion, Hitler said, "Certain foreign newspapers have said that we fell on Austria with brutal methods. I can only say; even in death they cannot stop lying. I have in the course of my political struggle won much love from my people, but when I crossed the former frontier there met me such a stream of love as I have never experienced. Not as tyrants have we come, but as liberators."

To deal with those who dissented from his policies, at the advice of his politically savvy advisors, he and his handmaidens in the press began a campaign to equate him and his policies with patriotism and the nation itself. National unity was essential, they said, to ensure that the terrorists or their sponsors didn't think they'd succeeded in splitting the nation or weakening its will. In times of war, they said, there could be only "one people, one nation, and one commander-in-chief" ("Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer"), and so his advocates in the media began a nationwide campaign charging that critics of his policies were attacking the nation itself. Those questioning him were labeled "anti-German" or "not good Germans," and it was suggested they were aiding the enemies of the state by failing in the patriotic necessity of supporting the nation's valiant men in uniform. It was one of his most effective ways to stifle dissent and pit wage-earning people (from whom most of the army came) against the "intellectuals and liberals" who were critical of his policies.

Nonetheless, once the "small war" annexation of Austria was successfully and quickly completed, and peace returned, voices of opposition were again raised in the Homeland. The almost-daily release of news bulletins about the dangers of terrorist communist cells wasn't enough to rouse the populace and totally suppress dissent. A full-out war was necessary to divert public attention from the growing rumbles within the country about disappearing dissidents; violence against liberals, Jews, and union leaders; and the epidemic of crony capitalism that was producing empires of wealth in the corporate sector but threatening the middle class's way of life.

A year later, to the week, Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia; the nation was now fully at war, and all internal dissent was suppressed in the name of national security. It was the end of Germany's first experiment with democracy.

As we conclude this review of history, there are a few milestones worth remembering.

February 27, 2003, was the 70th anniversary of Dutch terrorist Marinus van der Lubbe's successful firebombing of the German Parliament (Reichstag) building, the terrorist act that catapulted Hitler to legitimacy and reshaped the German constitution. By the time of his successful and brief action to seize Austria, in which almost no German blood was shed, Hitler was the most beloved and popular leader in the history of his nation. Hailed around the world, he was later Time magazine's "Man Of The Year."

Most Americans remember his office for the security of the homeland, known as the Reichssicherheitshauptamt and its SchutzStaffel, simply by its most famous agency's initials: the SS.

We also remember that the Germans developed a new form of highly violent warfare they named "lightning war" or blitzkrieg, which, while generating devastating civilian losses, also produced a highly desirable "shock and awe" among the nation's leadership according to the authors of the 1996 book "Shock And Awe" published by the National Defense University Press.

Reflecting on that time, The American Heritage Dictionary (Houghton Mifflin Company, 1983) left us this definition of the form of government the German democracy had become through Hitler's close alliance with the largest German corporations and his policy of using war as a tool to keep power: "fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."

Today, as we face financial and political crises, it's useful to remember that the ravages of the Great Depression hit Germany and the United States alike. Through the 1930s, however, Hitler and Roosevelt chose very different courses to bring their nations back to power and prosperity.

Germany's response was to use government to empower corporations and reward the society's richest individuals, privatize much of the commons, stifle dissent, strip people of constitutional rights, and create an illusion of prosperity through continual and ever-expanding war. America passed minimum wage laws to raise the middle class, enforced anti-trust laws to diminish the power of corporations, increased taxes on corporations and the wealthiest individuals, created Social Security, and became the employer of last resort through programs to build national infrastructure, promote the arts, and replant forests.

To the extent that our Constitution is still intact, the choice is again ours.

Thom Hartmann lived and worked in Germany during the 1980s, and is the author of over a dozen books, including "Unequal Protection" and "The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight." This article is copyright by Thom Hartmann, but permission is granted for reprint in print, email, blog, or web media so long as this credit is attached


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jen4clark Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #117
118. Right on ElsewheresDaughter!!!
I suggest everyone read the Hartman article, then decide if we should or shouldn't compare this Regime to Hitler... Too close for comfort imho.
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reichstag911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. If only I'd thought...
Edited on Fri Feb-25-05 02:47 PM by reichstag911
...to post the article, rather than just the link, perhaps the thread I started yesterday at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1620829&mesg_id=1620829 would have gotten more play than this one started a couple hours later. Hmmm. :cry:
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