Three Democrats join GOP to vote latest bankruptcy bill out of committee.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60708-2005Feb28.html

By MARCY GORDON
The Associated Press
Monday, February 28, 2005; 4:21 PM

WASHINGTON - After nearly eight years of trying, proponents of legislation to make it harder to erase consumer debts believe it finally will pass Congress. The Senate began debate Monday on the measure, a priority for Republican leaders.

<>The legislation before the Senate "will come out more on the side of the creditors in terms of harassing these extraordinary individuals rather than recognizing that these are hard working people," said Kennedy, D-Mass. "I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that (it) is not passed in the United States Senate the way that it is."

<>The Senate Judiciary Committee approved the bill, 12-5, on Feb. 17. Three of the committee's eight Democrats - Sens. Joseph Biden of Delaware, Dianne Feinstein of California and Herb Kohl of Wisconsin - voted with the Republican majority.

Is this like him? Either way they both need a kick in the ass, WTF are the thinking?

Another thing, why did Kennedy say "is not passed in the United States Senate the way that it is."?

Why would he say that? It should be passed at all, this is another reason we will lose this fight.

This is Kennedy's diplomatic way of saying "ain't gonna happen." I think he is suggesting a filibuster of the bill as it is.

The Rethugs rammed "tort deform" down our throats with the help of corporate Dems, but if they don't stop this bankrupty "reform" bill, they are worthless.

Biden comes from Delaware--headquarters of many credit card companies and banks. If he votes for this bill, no way should be get consider running for the Dem presidential nomination.

about that is would that still apply to democrats when they're back in power? The republicans right now are very high on power and aren't even thinking about future elections. So what if in the next two terms it's ran by a democrat? Would they get to go by this new rule as well? Wouldn't that be dangerous for both parties? What if there's some type of bill that could take us downward as a country? :scared:

Read this article today from E. J. Dionne in the Washington Post...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61634-2005Feb28.html

You could make a case for this bankruptcy bill if it were narrowly focused on those who truly abuse the system. Instead, the bill sweeps away protections for worthy and unworthy creditors alike. This will make it much tougher for those who fall on hard times to escape burdens they confront through little fault of their own.

<>What does that mean in practice? "A family driven to bankruptcy by the increased costs of caring for an elderly parent with Alzheimer's disease is treated the same as someone who maxed out his credit cards at a casino," Warren said. "A person who had a heart attack is treated the same as someone who had a spending spree at the shopping mall. A mother who works two jobs and who cannot manage the prescription drugs needed for a child with diabetes is treated the same as someone who charged a bunch of credit cards with only a vague intent to repay."

<>Consider the double whammy that this Congress could end up imposing. At a moment when the president is proposing cuts in Medicaid and when many Americans are losing part or all of their health insurance coverage, citizens who fall into medical-financial hell are being told it will be much harder for them to win relief from bankruptcy judges.

<>There is a great misunderstanding that the key fight in our politics is between friends and foes of capitalism. In fact, the battle is among supporters of capitalism who disagree over what rules should govern the market. Should the rules favor the wealthy and the connected, or should they give some protection to those who fall into distress and would like nothing more than a chance to rejoin the ownership society? If Democrats sell out on the bankruptcy bill, they will, alas, show which side they're on.

Write your Senators and tell them no bankruptcy bill is better than this one-sided bill:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senat...

and, also, Tom Carper's ...

JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR. (D-DE)
Top Contributors
1 MBNA Corp $147,700
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?CID=N00001669&cycle=2004

Third highest industry contributor
3 Finance/Credit Companies $173,575
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/indus.asp?CID=N00001669&cycle=2004


TOM CARPER (D-DE)
Top Contributors
1 MBNA Corp $132,447
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?CID=N00012508&cycle=2004

2nd highest industry contributor for Carper
2 Finance/Credit Companies $209,552
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/indus.asp?CID=N00012508&cycle=2004

Delaware ... home of the Discover Card

Delaware - The State of Incorporation

the Bill, S.420, submitted in March 2001 by Sen. Grassley, of course; and, had 7 co-sponsors ...

COSPONSORS(7), ALPHABETICAL
Sen Biden, Joseph R., Jr. - 3/1/2001
Sen Carper, Thomas R. - 3/1/2001
Sen Hatch, Orrin G. - 3/1/2001
Sen Johnson, Tim - 3/1/2001
Sen Nelson, E. Benjamin - 3/6/2001
Sen Sessions, Jeff - 3/1/2001
Sen Torricelli, Robert G. - 3/1/2001
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_107_1.htm

Now, it's under S.256 ... Co-sponsors include:

Sen Carper, Thomas R. - 2/1/2005
Sen Crapo, Mike - 2/7/2005
Sen DeMint, Jim - 2/7/2005
Sen Enzi, Michael B. - 2/1/2005
Sen Hatch, Orrin G. - 2/1/2005
Sen Nelson, E. Benjamin - 2/1/2005
Sen Sessions, Jeff - 2/1/2005
Sen Shelby, Richard C. - 2/1/2005
Sen Sununu, John E. - 2/3/2005
Sen Thune, John - 2/1/2005
Sen Vitter, David - 2/16/2005
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R56B4239A
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/b_three_sections_with_teasers/active_leg_page.htm

supporting this bill is not supporting the people represented ... DE didn't vote for this

at a moment's notice. Think of it as the political equivalent of mood swings, e.g. Biden is really having some "policy swings" today.

:argh:

I heard part of Biden's questioning of the Harvard professor, and it was horribly obvious that Biden would do anything to protect the boys that bank in Delaware. :grr:

Why would you think otherwise?

I mostly think it won't happen and isn't worth the effort, but I would support any viable effort to defeat her. She's a sell out.

just kidding, just kidding.
bipartisanship is alive and well.

why is that? What are the new parameters being suggested that make this bill so bad to everyday americans?

still kill it.

The Senate will not allow special rules for anti-abortion folks that cause clinic damage and are hurting economically because they must pay whatever was in the Court Order.

The House wants to to give us all a stiffer bankruptcy bill - except those of us who are right to life and get hit with fines.

So it may still die.

try to evade fines from damaging property by filing for bankruptcy and there's a special section in this bill addressing that?

wtf

Indeed that was the only provision that the Dems got passed in the Senate.

only chapter 13 will be available.

i try not to have debt so i dunno why that's so bad, but from NPR this morning i get the feeling its the credit card companies that want this so, by definition, it has to be bad for the average american.

I find that logic pretty damn accurate as a general rule.

NPR also made it clear that, while CC companies have been lobbying for this bill for years, they've tried to remain in the background throughout the hearings.

when I woke up. I was not suprised but quite saddended.

Money above all. Even the Old Testement rules are against this (ironic considering what the religious right talks about).

Even the early Catholic church until the 1300's had strong anti-ursury laws.

http://www.henciclopedia.org.uy/autores/Laguiadelmundo/Usury.htm

I've researched it quite a bit. Over 120 bankruptcy judges have written letters to congresscritters saying that is unbalanced and will lead to unjust results.

For instance, a lawyer must sign a certification that his client has not hidden any assets when they file a Chapter 7. If that turns out to be wrong, he is liable for the hidden assets value to the creditors.
There is simply no way a lawyer can find hidden assets any better than a creditor can. Money buried in the backyard? That means it will be extremely difficult for middle class folks to find a lawyer.

Also, makes you do a repayment plan over five years instead of getting a fresh start. Most bks are because of medical bills, job loss and divorce. Very few are an abuse of the process.

The current law works and is not abused often. The new law will make it very difficult for middle class people to get a fresh start.

Not surprisingly, since the debt levels for Chapter 13 are fairly low, it will be easy for wealthy people owing a lot of money to file Chapter 7.

some good insight there.

I don't like credit card company tactics any more than the next person just wish people would be more informed about credit cards before they start using them. Everything mentionned in these posts about credit card tactics are mentionned in the ten page, million word booklet tht comes when you get a card so it's not like they are doing things that you weren't told about.

the point about chapter 7 is also strong. It's a crappy "loop hole" for the rich.

I think the Bankruptcy Bill, then, Sen. Grassley sponsored S.420, (now, S.256) was the first legislation the Republicans brought forth under the First Coup Regime ...

... right after repealing President Clinton's Ergonomic reforms ...

... setting the 'new' tone quite clearly ...

Wellstone Amdt. No. 14; To create an exemption for certain debtors that can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the court that the reason for the filing was a result of debts incurred through medical expenses. ~ REJECTED 07-Mar-2001

Those voting with the Republicans against this amendment included (not 1 Republican voted 'yea') ...

who are they representing with these votes?:

Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Breaux (D-LA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00016

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_107_1.htm

00036 15-Mar-2001 S. 420 On Passage of the Bill Passed
S.420, As Amended; Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2001

only 15 nays; I will give former Sen. Fitzgerald credit ... he only voted 'present', essentially recusing himself because of family banking ties ... compare that to HMO Frist on healthcare matters ...

Barbara Boxer did not vote.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00036


Wonder why the Radical Republicans tabled the measure until now?
Scared to campaign with the negative baggage during the 2002/2004 elections?

Reid supported it in 2001 ... I hope he can find a way to turn things around, and get the team on the same side. Things have changed with the Internet ... not as easy to vote against us ... We're watching and taking notes ... it's us vs. corporate america ...

if his amendment was agreed to? How does the currrent bill differ from the one you are referring to?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00036


fyi - found this site which talks about
What's Wrong with the Bankruptcy Bill?
Bill Analysis of S.256
February 24, 2005
http://www.demos-usa.org/pub459.cfm

hope that's helpful


another Goggle found this rant:

"If they're going to make credit card debt more difficult to discharge in bankruptcy court, then why don't they protect the consumers by forcing he credit card companies to cap their interest rates at 12%? Why don't they limit the amount of late fees/service charges they routinely load up consumers with? Why don't they restrict the ability the credit card company can increase a consumer's interest rate (like 1-2% increases annually or every-other-year)?" Benjamin Dover http://www.bendover.com/bkupdate.asp

Much more of this shit from him and I will make it my life's work -- what's left of it -- to see him turned out of office.

That's why "tough talking" little plaigerist is granted so much free airtime by the media whores.

Unfortunately, it seems to me the only way to ever get rid of him- assuming his health holds up- is through "lateral hiring" by some administration or some corruption probe.

With Feinstein, I still hold out some hope she'll run for governor....

I have practiced in bk for about 12 years and in my view the bill is awful. It will as a practical significantly reduce the number debt discharges that upper to lower middle class people will be able to obtain driving huge numbers of people out of the above-ground economy. Terrible bill and its unbelievable that these 3 democrats voted for it. Biden might as well join the MBNA Party because that's his real constituency.

:puke:

But of course no legislation in the bill to help alleviate any of them problems either I would be more than willing to bet. I only voted for fine-grind the first time, but now I even regret that.

These DINO's make me sick :puke:

I think she's just grabbing what she can on the way out.

A couple of them appear to the same old traitors to the people.