Where do liberals and centrists disagree? What issues?

As a liberal, I'm just curious. Is the difference big enough to make a centrist vote repub rather than for a liberal candidate?

are wishy-washy about this important precept.

are not liberals. They're hard leftists.

this country. * is not Ike Eisenhower.

My neighbors are staunch Republicans! Although we strongly disagree on politics and have very different world perspectives, we are great neighbors: helping one another when water lines freeze up or collecting one anothers' mail or giving advice about day-to-day non-political stuff.

I don't want them to "eat shit and die"!

Good grief!!!! :eyes:

and they don't have anyone to take in their mail." That would fix them for backing the worst President ever. Isn't "eat shit and die" something junior high kids say to each other? Doesn't LOL mean "laugh out loud?"

Centrists are far more willing to compromise with conservatives. Liberals are far more passionate about their beliefs, more willing to fight for them.

When conservatives paint liberals as radical, centrists are more likely to go with the status quo than to fight for change.

While some people on the near left (centre-left and centre are not the same thing) are doubtless moderate simply because they don't hold their left-wing views passionately, most either

a) believe that moderate left wing policies are better both than
far-left ones and than centre or right-wing ones, passionately or
otherwise

or

b) passionately want a world run on left wing principles, and
believe that the best way to achieve this is by compromising on
some issues so as to better achieve others.

Tony Blair is a type a) left-of-centre political figure, I'm a type b) centrist - I think a moderate platform has a better chance of winning elections, and I thing the left can do far more good in government with an imperfect set of policies, rather than in opposition with a perfect one.

I'd say that the difference is than in general people on the far left tend to be idealists, and many (although not all) moderates tend to be realists.

You can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. On the other hand, you can be more liberal fiscally yet be conservative socially. The disagreements are in this area.

The biggest wedge issues today are social issues such as abortion and gay marriage or civil unions. The attention has been taken off of economic issues, and that seems to be the way many politicians want it, especially since we have many big business interests playing both sides of the political aisle.

and I find it amusing how some on the left seem to claim exclusive ownership of the term "liberal."

have shifted WELL to the right. Now I'm close to a pinko--only I really am nothing close to it.

It isn't where we think we are; it's where the nation has moved.

So many people are trying to project the politics of today on the past. They think that the country was much more liberal in 1964 than it is today. But in 1964, liberal legislation was legislation outlawing racial discrimination in employment -- and its was INCREDIBLY CONTROVERSIAL back then. "Respectable" candidates actually ran on platforms opposing the 1964 Civil Rights Act. That would never happen today. People look at today's efforts to overturn Roe v. Wade, but don't realize that abortion was illegal in many states back in 1964. They look at all the social programs back then, but don't realize that the economics and demographic situation was very different. It's one thing to extend medical benefits to a relatively small elderly population when the economy is roaring along and there's not much debt. But today, there's a large elderly population and its getting larger every day, we've got trillions in debt piling up, and our industrial sector in in shambles.

The fact is our society is LIGHT YEARS beyond where we were in 1964 in terms of cultural issues. Back in 1964, you could get thrown in jail for exhibiting a film with nudity. But nudity is rampant today, even on TV. Sure, you have conservative groups organizing protests, and the FCC may hand down fines every once in a while, but broadcasters and movie studios still get away with far more than they ever could back in 1964.

I'm largely in agreement with you, but the area in which I do think the Democratic Party has moved right has been in the commitment to fight poverty. Clearly much of the Great Society and the War on Poverty was inefficient (although there was some good success too - poverty declined from 25% to 10-15%), but there was a true commitment to fighting poverty that the Democratic Party hasn't spoken to in awhile. And I say this as someone who considers themself "moderate."

The other issue is universal health care. I realize it may be politically impossible but after studying the issue, a single-payer universal health coverage scheme is the simplest and most common-sense solution out there.

On those issues, there has been a rightward shift. But you're right, on civil rights, and social issues there has been a big movement to the left.

I am sure many of them vote Republican.

They seem to think we liberals are stupid, crazy conspiracy theorists.
I am anything but an elitist but I am liberal as all get out.

things that some centrists and RWers have in common. Now, their reasoning on how they get to the decision they make on those things might differ, but in the end they agree that these are good things.

... remember - FDR led us into WWII. Kennedy and Johnson into Viet Nam.

But, alas, some here claim them as left liberals and some claim them as left moderates.

And free market capitalism is a liberal concept.

and I disagree with quite a bit that I read on this board. But, I voted for both Gore and Kerry. Why? The environment is one of my top issues -- for that reason I voted Gore. Environmental issues factored into the Kerry vote -- but so did stem cell research and balancing the federal budget.

By the way -- being a centrist does not mean being wishy washy. I have many convictions and stand firm on issues -- my position just sometimes happen to align with conservatives and other times aligns with liberals. I don't vote for the party, I vote for the candidate.

many here on DU believe being a centrist (or moderate - which isn't exactly the same thing) means that you can't make up your mind on issues or that you try to take a neutral position.

But in reality, a centrist takes firm positions on all issues - it's just that some of the positions are more conservative and some more liberal.

Someone can be vehemently pro-choice and pro-gun rights and be called a centrist.

pro-gun rights.

:shrug:

FDR, JFK, LBJ all DINOs then... :shrug:

LBJ is the only one that could be considered that way and I don't know if you were around during LBJ's time but the Chant went "Hey Hey LBJ, How many kids did you kill today." He was protested at the democratic National convention in Chicago by Democrats (SDS) and a riot ensued. JFK did not start the Vietnam conflict. The Treaty was signed by Eisenhower and first troops (Advisors) were put there by him.

No one forced him into Korea...

JFK could have ended the conflict in Nam. So could have LBJ.

Carter? Military aid to the Dictatorship in El Salvadore and large arms sales to Jakarta during Indonesia's illegal invasion and occupation of East Timor. the Carter White House approved sales of fighter jets and ground-attack bombers to Indonesia's Suharto regime, whose military employed them in East Timor to bomb and napalm the population into submission. An Australian parliamentary commission would later characterize the period as one of "indiscriminate killing on a scale unprecedented in post-World War II history."

All Dinos I suppose...

rights of personal and collective actions, and responsibilities of government and personal actions.

all debates focus on where the line is drawn

they just dont know enough to take a stand. No matter where two people are politcally they'll make it their business to agree with a little but of what each side says, which anyone would natuarally when they havent educated themselves and have no opinion.

... to the point of absurdity.

But, of course, If I mention famous elected officials who have been called "centrists" by "proooogreeeesives," and apply your criteria, you'll just claim that person isn't a centrist.

But I'll drop one name: Bill Clinton - moderate liberal who has been called DINO and "centrist" repeatedly on so-called enlightened politicos on DU. By your test, he has no beliefs and just doesn't know enough to take a stand.

don't you already know how you differ from centrists? Presumably, you have a working definition of "liberal" in your head if you use the term to describe yourself. You know what it means and what it doesn't mean.

Whether the difference would make someone vote right rather than left, I don't know. My guess, though, is that it would depend on what issues the candidate emphasizes.

If only because they don't want to. The whole point of the "dems should be more centrist/moderate" meme is to get the Dem party to move over to the Right - that would not happen if "centrists" would vote repub.

That's one of the reasons why centrists usually do not distinguish themselves from liberals; the idea is that centrists *are* librals (and "moderate" ones at that). This has caused many traditional (leftist) liberals to re-identify themselves as "progressives".

:eyes:

Need I say anymore?

that your post was a joke.

liberal and probably even a bit leftist...though not in a violent way. I don't plot to vandalize, destroy or commit acts of violence. Though I do believe it is the duty of citizens to keep their government in check.

The best way I can think to answer this is to explain what I believe in and then have others compare to it with their attitudes, beliefs and values.

I believe in protecting the environment for its own sake not just our use (duh)
I believe in free or affordable healthcare for everyone. Period.
I believe that we need some serious reform in the education system...not sure how...but something. We don't teach kids to DO anything. How about some practical skills in there?
I believe we are in for a major energy crisis. So we will NEED kids that actually know how to Do things.
I don't think capitalism is proving to be a sustainable societal structure.
I believe there is already an unsustainable number of people on the planet.
I believe in stem cell research, but not cloning.
I am generally against war...and I'm a veteran.
I believe that their should be openness in government.
I believe homosexuals can get married if they want just like everybody else...none of that separate but equal bullshit. They are consenting adults.
I believe in separation of church and state and think there is way too much religion in government right now. Everyone is entitled to their own religous beliefs, or lack of, and should be respected but does it have to be Christian this and Christian that all the time? There are more than just Christians in this world and in this country...and just because we aren't Christian doesn't mean we don't have morals, values, feelings, or good will.
I believe people should be able to have guns. I hunt.
I support the legalization of marijuana.
I think big media needs to unconsolidate.
I believe in pre-marital sex (safe). :)
I don't think the government should spend more than it collects...period.

I believe in lots more stuff...but that gets me started.

Olaf

Liberals think the present political war has to be won and is going to be won- and soon- and the society is going to change as a result, the economic arrangements secondarily. Centrists think we can all go back to the political status quo ante of around 1990- and society will remain the same, only the economic stuff gets rejiggered a bit and that is supposed to be the Democratic priority.

The social issues are thus the real difference. Abortion isn't actually important, or in fact an issue in the arena, but it's the symbolic watershed between the two sides and is the distinction between people whose political attitudes are pre-1990 (American society stays pre-Modern/quasicolonial) and those whose are post-1990 (American society assimilates to the Modern condition).