Sy Hersh spoke in Louisville last night - and he scared the hell out of me

The talk was wonderful, the hall was packed (1,000?), and he gave insight into this administration that no other journalist (I use that word lightly) even dares to come close to reporting. Some of the things that I thought most interesting -

Bush doesn't care what the American people or the world thinks about his plans. Just flat doesn't care. Hersh says that from his contacts within the administration that naysayers are routinely pushed out and only people who agree with his and the neocons grand schemes are allowed anywhere close to the table. King Chimpy honestly believes that he is changing the course of world history and that in 10, 20 or 50 years he will be remembered in the same way that Lincoln is revered. And he has no one around him to tell him any different. The overall thought was like him or not - Bush is SURE he is right and will do anything to see it through. (ie - Social Security).

Couldn't say for sure whether we will go into Iraq or Syria now that the plans are out there for public view but he does have several military units already working on the inside of these countries doing grunt work in preparation (with no congressional oversight). Also, said that Rumsfeld has completely trashed the CIA. Concerted steps were taken to remove, run off or push from the table any and all people within the agency that did not get on board with the grand schemes. The CIA was the original group that kept saying there were no WMDs, no terrorists, Saddam not involved. The BushyBots just didn't want to hear it. The CIA is now a toothless, powerless (my words) agency. Because of laws written in the 80s that required Congressional oversight this administration has circumvented the process by declaring presidential authority to prepare for possible wars by using the military by secret methods traditionally used by the CIA for information. Since they have "authority" and it is not the CIA, King Chimp, Cheney and Rumsfeld feel they do not have to report to Congress or any one else on what they are doing. Scary, scary $hit.

He did say there were many, many patriots who work inside the government that are just aghast at what is being done to this nation. He also had very kind words for Robert Novak - allowed he was a right wing, conserative pundit but that he was very smart and very patriotic. (I couldn't help but believe that Hersh hadn't heard a word that Nonuts has had to say in the last couple of years.)

Finally, one last comment that Hersh made that really caught my ear - he was very dismissive of the Democratic Party. Said that it was the grassroots people that energized, moved, organized and got out the vote in the last election. He did not particularly like Kerry (I disagreed there) but said the campaign was poorly run and still wanted him to win. He then said that the grassroots movements are what is going to be the answer for the Democratic Party and the "official" leaders can get on board or not but that the people are now powering the Dems. Good to hear.

In the question and answer period many, many thoughtful questions were asked but of course one freeper had to get in his two cents. The repug asked Hersh why we should believe his "tirade" when he couldn't give the names of any of his sources within the administration. Hersh just smiled, and answered very politely - "Because I keep winning awards for my work. The truth speaks for itself." The crowd booed with the question and applauded loudly with his answer.

I was in a crowd of people who feel passionately about our country and the Democratic Party. It was so hopeful to see such a gathering on a cold Thursday night. I have only touched on just a few things Hersh discussed last night, really wish that C-Span or someone had felt the need to tape it for airing. I can't help but believe that even a few freepers in the audience had to see the reason and sanity in many of Herch's words. You get a chance to hear this guy speak be sure and go. He was very hopeful in the American public being able to save this country but the plans he outlined for this administration should give us all pause and scare the beegeebers out of you if we let this continue.

...and thanks for posting this. It is overwhelming.

Is there any way we can get someone to help us? :scared: I don't want Bush to go to Iran or to destory SS or anything else! We're already really screwed over!

It's his all-purpose get-out-of-jail free card.

And it totally sucks.

But, on the other hand, they are over playing their hand on social secuirty right now and I think it may lead to their downfall.

that bush and his cronies let 9/11 happen on purpose. They knew it was coming and had to have their "Pearl Harbor type event" (from the 2000 PNAC website) as a jump off point to get the ball rolling. They let thousands die, on purpose, to further their objectives. He was languishing below 50% popularity at the time, and knew he'd never get a chance to pull off the coup d'etat without it.

My hope is, that sometime in the future one of these bastards, on their deathbed, or someone who suddenly gets a pang of conscience, tells the complete story of 9/11. We'll see how far his dreams of becoming another "Lincoln" go after that. As it stands now, history will not treat him kindly. I hope history brands him as an example and warning for all future Presidents; to not go against the will of the people, to not think you are ever above the law and to not put YOUR aspirations over the benefit of the country.

What an utter scumbag bush is. I want to be around when the Lords of Karma finally catch up to this bastard.

out that no one can deny. i noe folks r workikng on this, and i pray each day it happens!

Even if Bush were somehow "cut down" tomorrow, the US government is now set upon an irreversable collision course with financial insolvency (i.e. Bankruptcy), and the country itself will break apart into its' constituent states, much like the Soviet Union did. What awaits us is at least a decade of Depression of such magnitude that it will probably make the Great Depression look like a minor recession by comparison.

If there's a bright side to this, it might be that the United States would be somewhat better off returning to a group of independent states (i.e. Texas, Southern California), city-states (i.e. New York City) and regional republics (i.e. Cascadia, New England, Southern Confederacy) for awhile. Maybe 50 to 100 years from now, we might explore the possibility of forming a new "North American Union" based upon progressive ideals, very similar to the EU.

It is the best book on 9/11 I've read so far. It's a brilliant analysis of 9/11 and extremely frigthening but also very captivating.

You can get the book here:
http://www.waronfreedom.org/index.html#synth

I'm hoping it doesn't take too long; I'm 61, and hope I have 30 more years...Maybe my anger at * will help keep me motivated and alive! And I agree completely with your view of 9/11 and why/how it happened.

The sheeple will forget if we can frame it to show that shrub was involved or at least incompetent enough to let it happen.

Joe Wall said he was angered by Hersh, who Wall said did not offer enough unbiased facts during his speech.

"It's an anti-Bush tirade," Wall said. "He's on his own crusade. It's disgusting."

Unbiased facts? Jesus H. Christ! Hersh's stuff comes from right in the White House, the Pentagon, the CIA, etc. How much more direct can one get with information?

The guy was just apparently suffering from Kool-Aid indigestion.

BTW, I'll post my summary of his speech here in a bit.



EDIT: Oh CRAP! I left my notes in my coat which I left at home when I went home for lunch. It's so warm out today I didn't need it. Dang it.

But, I think my camcorder did capture the audio (might take a bit of tweaking to make it more audible) so I'll try and that put up on a site this weekend.

are long gone. No matter if there's proof or not or someone like that. Just look what they did to David Kay (or was it Kelly?) and Richard Clarke. *sigh* Bush is really dangerous and scary. And I wanted to add as long as I'm around my future kids will never know Bush as a Lincoln. He isn't one. He's a nazi.

did he talk about oil and the dollar?

Bush's Messiah Complex:

"Bush doesn't care what the American people or the world thinks about his plans. Just flat doesn't care. "

that is the reason we are there....that is the reason we will go to more oil countries

Bush "knows" becuase peak oil is a geological fact...the problem is the "powerful elite" have choosen a path of non-renewable energy because it benefits them

bush is using our military as a tool for big oil, energy and war profits...

the other countries know this as well

Hersh said that King Chimpy's plans are very selective. Not so interested in democracy in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. but really pushing a specialized agenda in areas where BUSH has determined needs reforming.

Hersh also said that the elections held in January was a "farce" (again my words). And he asked the question, it has been five weeks since the election and why don't they have a government up and running working toward a Constitution and more elections? Because the guys the administration wanted to win didn't win and Bushy Co are still maneuvering to get their guy into a position of authority. They need a puppet and the winners just aren't cooperating. They want democracy in name only because it is very important to them to get a figurehead that won't ask the American troops to leave. So much for freedom and elections, huh? Also said his information leads most military authorities to believe that with the Shiites winning the election there is even a greater chance that Iraq will fall into a civil war. Doesn't the news just keep getting better and better?

Iran is against the dollar...is opening an oil trading market ...and has an abundance of oil

I would love for Hersh to cover the Peak Oil issues which our administration conveniently has the "neocon flag' as the reason for invasion...pure BS


It's about oil.

scary!

PNAC. I'm sure they know about PNAC and that's why countries like Iran and Europe are teaming together. Maybe they can save us? I wish there was something to do about this mess. Elections don't work. :(

to out tons of nasty true facts about the BA. Come out, come out wherever you are. Your country is counting on you.

We the people truly are counting on these folks, and others on the HILL to please COME OUT NOW! Before its' too late...

and God bless Seymour Hersh. His exposes of the Bushco insanity may yet turn out to be the wake up call that this country needs.

...and can't find anything.

,...around here?

:bounce:

I sincerely appreciate Herch getting out there and spreading this information. The more Americans who are informed about just how f-upped this administration really is,...the more Americans who will contain this administration's insanity.

Thank you, Sy.

Thank you, Dem4ever for sharing your experience!!!!

He was the most aloof and incompetent Prez campaigner the Dems have had to-date.

Bush wasn't. For starters - he was smart, honest, understood the issues and could speak on them coherently. Mr. Personality, maybe not but I didn't want a pin up poster for a leader. I, also, didn't buy into the smear that Bushy Boy and his thugs pushed in everyone's face. The guy would have been good for America.

I'm always interested in hearing Sy Hersh's perspective, so thanks for your report. I'm especially happy to hear that he is speaking out about the election sham of 2004.

Whenever I hear someone mention John Kerry's lack of "personality", it only reminds me of how easily influenced some people are by the propaganda garbage thrown out by the corporate media to influence public opinion.

John Kerry would have been a great president.

by the propaganda garbage thrown out by the corporate media..."

You mean like during the primaries?

Careful when you throw that stuff out there.

Julie

If you're offended in some way by that, my apologies. Just ignore.

I was merely pointing out an interesting irony in your statement.

Julie

the irony, that is.

;)

Whatever happened to "No retreat, no surrender"?

He didn't stand up to the SBV campaign and he petered out when it came to challenging the election irregularities.

I don't question his integrity one bit, but I must say, I was pretty disappointed that he didn't stand and fight hard.

I watched Kerry for myself and saw how boring and out of touch with average Americans he really is. I also work in Massachusetts and the Democrats I work with didn't like Kerry either. They voted for him in the election, but they thought he followed Dukakis' path to defeat.

I know where you're coming from, but I stand by what I said. Totally.

for president. My respect for him grew only after he was eliminated and then came back and fought hard for the DNC gig.

Like you, I believe Kerry would have made a wonderful president. And Wesley Clark may have been an even better one. He dropped out much too soon also. :-(

The guy in Russia who was poisoned never stopped fighting. That's what I like in a leader...not someone who bows out gracefully when the going gets tough.

For 2008, we MUST do better.


edit: spelling correction

had all the qualities the country desperately needs now. Also Teresa Heinz Kerry would have been a vast improvement over our current Stepford 1st Lady.:puke:

Speaking of being out of touch with average Americans... can you believe that Laura Bush is set to take charge on urban youth education issues?? Please. I equate that with watching June Cleaver speak jive in the movie "Airplane". Effective comically, but doesn't pan out in reality.

why, why, why, why, why did he fold and just walk away? I think all of us, even the biggest supporters and naysayers, need to have that question answered. And if Elizabeth Edwards is reading this--and according to her, she does, please somehow, get the word out about why the Democratic Party just let this election go on by without a wimper. What is going on?

why, why, why, why, why did he fold and just walk away? I think all of us, even the biggest supporters and naysayers, need to have that question answered. And if Elizabeth Edwards is reading this--and according to her, she does, please somehow, get the word out about why the Democratic Party just let this election go on by without a wimper. What is going on?

serious about everything. Bush treats the presidency like a joke.

thinks he is a great man doing great historic things. Of course what he is doing is mostly horrible, but I think he takes the POWER of the presidency very seriously.

They underestimated the Bush Slime machine and let the swift Boat liars get the better of them. They reined Kerry in too much... I feel if they would have let Kerry show more of the 1970's killer instinct, he would have fired up a lot more voters.

But then again, I think Bush manipulated the election just like he is manipulating the press and the CIA.

Thank you for reporting...

You are so right! I heard many people say they were waiting/expecting to see that aspect of him emerge. But it never did, to our great loss and sorrow.

BTW, WELCOME TO DU!

:hi:

:toast:

I'm more and more convinced that our ultimate weakness is that we're not willing to lie. We can't mount any kind of offense like the one they did with the Swift Boat liars if we stick to the truth.

I'll never understand how someone can have multiple failures, not one victory yet still get hired. doesn't make any sense to me.

I hope he's doing everything he can to stay safe because we need him.

Thank you for the report...

"The overall thought was like him or not - Bush is SURE he is right and will do anything to see it through."

This, in a nutshell, is the key to Bush's electoral success and to the success of republicans in general. They don't want waffling leaders with considered and nuanced positions on issues that MAY change if the situation changes.

What people want is leadership that is sure of itself, because they don't know the answers and they are attracted to leaders who present themselves as if they DO know all the answers.

That's why calibrating, compromising dem politicans will forever keep us in the minority until they get a clue.

that?

Hersch spoke the truth to the US lies of Abu Ghraib: Journalism. He continues to speak the truth to the colossal lies that are being perpetrated against the world by the mendacious Bu$h regime: Journalism. Sy Hersch won the Pulitzer Prize for Journalism for his exposure of the massacre at the hamlet of My Lai-4 in Vietnam on March 16, 1968. Sy Hersh is the epitome of what journalism should be. Meanwhile, Bu$hco journalists earn their keep the old fashioned way. Whoring.


My Lai-4, Vietnam March 16, 1968

atrocities of My Lai and then segued into the horrors of Abu Gharib. He got a catch in his throat when discussing what we are doing to the people in Iraq and what we are doing to our soldiers requiring this behavior from them. Said he was positive that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld were aware of the torture in Iraq in January 2004 but did nothing until after the pictures hit the airwaves in May 2004. They condone it until it was public knowledge. I think there were plenty in the audience that got a tear in their eye over his vivid descriptions of what happen in Viet Nam and Iraq. Said that 10 years after Viet Nam that an average of 9,700 soldiers a month were seeking physiological help with dealing with the horrors of Viet Nam. Said the American people will be paying for the torture inflicted on the Iraqi people (through new terrorists) and the American soldiers for decades to come.

You wrote "You get a chance to hear this guy speak be sure and go."

Here's my question - how did you find out he was appearing there? Is there a way to access his schedule to find out where he will be and when?

Thanks...

Dem? I was just curious. I figure at UofL

funded by, of course, Wilson Wyatt. He spoke at Bellarmine University, it was open and free to the public and the crowd was great. Sorry you missed it. I posted the event in the Kentucky forum last Sunday (read about it in the Sunday CJ) and then again yesterday in the GD Politics for the Indiana and Ohio DUers that might want to make the drive.

I have searched to see if I can find a schedule of his book appearances but so far no luck. HarperCollins published his book but there is nothing on their web site and a Google didn't turn up anything.

n/t

...the comments about the Dems and grassroots activity provide one more reason why Dean was the right choice for DNC chair.

Where Bush says something to like:

There's a lot to be said for a dictatorship, as long as I'm the dictator....

Paraphrased, but that's the gist of it. A moment of unvarnished truth.

also once "It'd be heck of a lot easier if this was a dictatorship. As long as I'm dictator." :scared: He's one alright. I wonder if his role model is Hitler.

He also had very kind words for Robert Novak - allowed he was a right wing, conserative pundit but that he was very smart and very patriotic.

I say again WTF!

to question Hersh's praise of Novak!

For Hersh to say that after being so critical of Bush regime just doesn't add up.

Makes me doubt Hersh now. . .is he afraid of being harmed if he criticizes Novak or what?

D4ever, you just have to elaborate this part of Hersh's remarks. . .how could he praise Novak's shilling for Bush by exposing Valerie Plame. . .good grief, you left a big gap in your report here.
:shrug:

a minor point in a long lecture (He talked for over an hour and 15 minutes then took questions and after that signed books. He could have gone on another hour if the time allowed!). Hersh said that Nonuts was very smart and a patriotic but also a very conservative right winger. He added some remarks that he felt the investigation into the Valerie Plame issue was going for much bigger fish to fry than just some journalists. Maybe, on reflection, as an investigative reporter he has some empathy for journalists protecting their sources. Said there was a lot more that we don't (think he was including himself in the remark) that we don't know about the outing of Plame and work was continuing on the whole affair. Wish I could recall more of what he said but I, personally, found the remarks on Bush's outright determination to force the neocon agenda, no matter the costs to human lives or economic factors, was more disturbing than the brief comments on Nonuts.

Hopefully, another DUer who also attended the lecture will be able to flesh out those remarks better than I have.

The chairs were 20 in each row in each section (40 chairs across, total) and there were, what, 40-50 rows on the floor and they were filled? Plus there were people in the stands in the back and some along the sides.


I got to shake his hand and had my book signed by Mr. Hersh. I was sitting behind Charlie Ricketts (who graduated from Trinity in '61 with my dad) but it was hard to smile since I still can't stand him for having defended Mel Ignatow.

,...(per another poster's definition: Weapons of Mass Deprogramming).

and the only non-violent solution I can think of is for Dems to focus on the 2006 Elections and win enough seats to over ride the Bush Junta and their lackeys. As long as the Bush Junta is in control of the House and Senate and the Whore Media nothing can change.

fight a real campaign, we could take back Congress (both houses), but it would have to be a really fierce campaign--starting NOW. And if we take back Congress, then we can take down BushCo. But as long as they own all branches of government, we are well and ruly screwed.

My problem is that I believe too many of our Dem "representatives" are only about their own careers, not about representing us, and so they are obstacles rather than aids in our fight.

We need to be aggressively proactive in PROTECTING the FREE INTERNET. Without the ability to organize and fundraise politically and access and exchange information via the internet, how will we be able to resist the monsters who have taken over this country? They have been systematic in suppressing all sources of dissent one by one. The time of their attacks on the internet -- virtually the last bastion of a Free Press in this country -- is going to be soon. We MUST be ready.

See this Home Page thread on how this may be coming sooner than we think:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x110295
Title: The coming crackdown on blogging (ugly blatant censorship)

This long thread includes media freedom-related links and discussion on the reasons supporting formation of a DU Group for Free Internet/Free Press/1st Amendment issues.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=109x18717
Title: Internet freedom is threatened, and we MUST be prepared to defend it!!!

I have asked Skinner to set up a Forum on Free Internet/Free Press/First Amendment issues. (That's my preliminary suggestion for a name - if you have better ideas, please suggest them.) He has shown some interest. Support, encouragement, suggestions, and above all participation are very welcome.

when I went to see Mario Cuomo give a speech about six weeks ago. The talk was sponsored by Common Cause, and everyone seemed so sympatico. Only altercation of the night was when a guy and I had an argument over who our favorite AirAmerica personalitues were!

eom.

I am very couraged to hear that there are higher up officials who realize the ineptitude and outright lies this administration has told. I am thankful they realize that this Bush administration can not be trusted at all.

Thats the scariest thing for me. Thanks for the report. I especially liked this comment:

"He then said that the grassroots movements are what is going to be the answer for the Democratic Party and the "official" leaders can get on board or not but that the people are now powering the Dems. Good to hear."

Lincoln would shudder.

Suppose he keeps a secret scorecard of how many deaths he has caused?

As much as they like to use the word,they never seem to grasp an understanding about what it means to be a responsible citizen. And worse, they try to hide behind the Bible while they practice deliberate deception - another reason to label these people christian impersonaters.

I have felt from the beginning that BushCo is more about purging varied opinions in the government and establishing a monolithic pseudo-dictatorship. Just reading the slew of rightwingnut columnists and news sources will tell you that these people concentrate more on smearing others than providing thoughtful information. Tantrum throwing may be attractive as an entertainment diversion for a year or so, but eventually people are going to get sick and tired of the negatives.

I only hope that time is rapidly coming - and frankly, I expect the Prez to fall on his face during his "force SS reform" tour - though I also expect the MSM to show happy supportive crowds that are properly screened to to support Il Duce's every word.

This simply is not about a classic "liberal" vs. "conservative" conflict any longer - no real conservative would ever be so supportive of this kind of government. And the sooner we stop calling them conservatives the better - these are radicals bent on removing any rewriting our entire history until, as Janis Joplin sang, "freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose."

:hi: :headbang:

Abraham Lincoln's assaults on American's civil liberties are all but forgotten, not merely justified from an "Ends Justifies The Means" philosophy, but we hardly even hear about it.

For example, to keep Maryland in the Union, our government arrested secesh members of the Maryland legislature. Our government shut down papers that questioned the war and imprisoned some newspaper editors.

Armed troops interfered with the right of Democrats to peaceably assemble in Indiana in 1863, and interfered again in that state as well as Kentucky to maintain pr-war Republican majorities.

Dubya is using some of the same tactics as Lincoln. Such has decreased my respect for Lincoln, because the reason our sixteenth president gets a free pass on his brutal tactics and is thought of as a hero is because people think the ends justifies the means. And this is the same argument used to justify the deception of the Iraq War, and what our government does to win the War on Terror.

civil liberty grievances were found after the fact to be unconstitutional long after the Civil War had ended. The suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War due to "terrorists" and war conditions sounds so familiar, doesn't it? With Ex parte Milligan the Supreme Court righted the course of the nation a year after Lincoln had died. People (and thus history) apparently weren't familiar with all of the assaults that took place on the Constitution during the Civil War or just didn't care as long as the nation was "safe." Lincoln, also, had the advantage of being smart, self-made, moral and a decent man who even agonized over his decision to suspend habeas corpus - he even knew it was wrong - but felt it had to be done. I don't agree with his conclusions but I can at least respect that he acknowledge his conflicted actions. Chimpy enjoys no such insight.

Lincoln will always be remembered for the unpopular, dangerous and divisive stand to end slavery and is given a free pass on many of the tactics he used to get there. I think King Chimpy is counting on exactly the same limited memory for his legacy. The only real danger to Chimpy's plan is we don't have a constitutionally strong, moral Supreme Court to undo all of the terrible miscarriages of justice after we finally get rid of this hateful, stupid, moronic man who stole his way into the White House.

posted that Hersh was to come out with an article that claims B** rigged the Iraq election to downsize the majority>>>???

is undoubtedly the same type of person who still believes there are WMDs and that Kerry served dishonorably because "they said so on the tee-vee!!!"

...these guys - freepers, I mean - seem content to use any excuse to continue their delusional mindset about bushco and the neocon agenda. I guess I hadn't thought about it much, but it does seem that their pet squelch is that if you can't give me a name then you obviously made it up. Unlike the 'rationale' bushco gave us in the run up to the war where they just lied about who did what and to whom, or, at other times relied on 'endangering National Security' as why they couldn't give specifics.

You see, these people still don't believe that there ever was a 'Deep Throat' and that Woodward and Bernstein made it all up. And, that if Nixon and the rest had just stone-walled the whole thing, like this bunch would undoubtedly do, they never would have had to step down. Sy Hersh or no Sy Hersh.

I hope Hersh is putting this all in print.

Watching Rather's report on Watergate this past week, I heard Hersh's name again prominently as one loud voice against corruption in the Nixon WH. I hope he can do the same for us now.

Sy always delivers.

too long ago, and he was awesome ther 2! i hope he has a relly good bodyguard!

His Fraudulency seems very testy lately. In the photo-op with Goss the other day, he looked ready to jump right out of his skin! He looks like hell too.
Small consolation, I know, but I don't think he's enjoying being president. Little Boots is way over his head, and is surrounded by incompetent sycophants.

"King Chimpy honestly believes that he is changing the course of world history"

Well, he is, just not necessarily in a good way.

Sy seems to have quite an insiders grasp on 21st century politics.

But then most of us knew George the Vulgar was like that. Now,if we can just get Sy's message out beyond the Democrat's/liberal's ear.

The rest of the population needs to hear this, like it or not. Frankly, with all the vile shit we know about Bushco, it boggles my mind why some agency, some important citizen, some somebody HASN'T FILED CHARGES to have his ass removed already!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean besides his sadistic attitude, he's broken and circumvented all sorts of laws..........he and his merry band of puppeteers need to be put into a rubber room (or worse)!

I ABSOLUTELY agree with the groundswell of resistance rising from among the people. I only wish there were organizers out there that could put together more visable protests directed at the present Government, along with grassroots work for the next election(s) etc.

I talk to people in various unexpected places who, while maybe not agreeing with everything we are passionate about, DO HATE BUSH..AND his father!! Seems like everyone is waiting for someone else to DO SOMETHING.

There will be worldwide demonstrations, check for one near you! www.unitedforpeace.org

He does not care what the American people think; this is not new news, we have known this for going on five years now, but we must stop him!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

right - except other repugs heavy into covering their own asses. They have nothing to base that on at all except for wishful thinking. Casualties are still rising, civil war may be imminent, democracy is still just an abstract concept in the Middle East - despite what the repugs try to portray to the contrary. There is no established government working toward anything. We still invaded a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and no matter how adroit the spin, that simple fact doesn't change. Iraqis hate us, want us gone. Most Americans hate being there and want us out. The only people who see the up side of this nonsense is the corporation who are making mega bucks on the backs of our military. And that is what we can not ever forget.

King Chimpy is trying desperately to re-write his legacy before he has even lived the consequences. A failed invasion of a country does not equate success. Seems everyone gets that but the repugs. And their talking points don't allow for rational discussion.

Hersh made very valid points to everyone in that room except the lone repugs who chose to dismiss the discussion as a tirade. Bush success? Hardly.

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then we are all pretty much screwed since he bet the farm on this one.

That guy is not original, not educated enough to develop a plan. I still say it is dangerous to give Bush all this credit. Do you think he is capable of moving corporations, the military, intelligence and everything that is needed to takeover all the essential earth resource countries on his own?

He has a thimble of capability. He is a front man.

His forte is loyalty, betrayal, revenge, applause, illusion.

He is significant proof that you can take a cabal of men who have come together to take over the world and make it look like it is a President.

I can't believe the Hersch would perpetuate the myth.

Bush is nothing except for his lethal revenge tactics and his ability to be manipulated by the real monsters of our country and their partners.

Cabal of men can be annotated to recognize our WAR QUEEN Rice who goes by the name of Secretary.

and if so, would you post a link? Thanks.

from an earlier speech on the same subject,

Behind Administration Lines
Seymour Hersh
Initial Broadcast Date: Oct 19 2004

http://www.commonwealthclub.org/audio/04-10hersh-speech.ram
http://www.commonwealthclub.org/audio/04-10hersh-qa.ram

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1644477


I can't get my HTPC to capture video from my camcorder. I have about 22 min. of audio from the speech. I'm working on it. ;)

when it seemed as though our country was headed for facism, and here we go again. The struggle will always continue between those who want real freedom and those who wish for power over others. I'm grateful that places like this exist where we can see that others think and feel the same way.

We fought back against the war then, and were able to bring about change, and can do it again. I'm reading Hersh's book on the Bush Admin, and the 9/11 report, and can only take small doses as they are too scary.

I've got the book, too. And you are right, it is hard to read the book and not worry about our beloved country.

:bounce:

Smirky the Chimp is an evil, dishonorable man. I wouldn't put it past him to arrange for Sy to "have an accident" or mysteriously "commit suicide."