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Dems Must Turn the SS Debate Into A BROAD ATTACK ON CHIMPY

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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:20 PM
Original message
Dems Must Turn the SS Debate Into A BROAD ATTACK ON CHIMPY
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:35 PM by Beetwasher
and all Repubs in general. Now is the time to grab the initiative and reframe the debate entirely.

This should NOT be about DEFENDING SS, it should now be about "WHY DID BUSH (and all Repubs) PROMISE NOT TO TOUCH THE SS SURPLUS AND THEN WENT AHEAD AND SPENT IT ALL??? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LOCKBOX HE PROMISED? HE CAN'T BE TRUSTED!"

That's how they can seize the initiative they now have on the issue. Instead attacking the non-existent plan the Bush is promoting, attack Bush and force him to DEFEND himself, instead of promoting his plan.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. yes Yes YES
I agree :D
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faarmer liberal Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. ??? The money collected since day ONE has been spent - 60 years
of spending! All Bush will do is produce a graph that shows the money has been being spent since the plan was created.

Bush has to defend nothing since he NEVER started the spending! Can we please come up with BETTER ideas!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Bullshit
That's how you frame a debate. He made a promise, he broke it. Most people are too clueless to understand the difference.
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faarmer liberal Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Oh thats a good one that will get us votes!!!!
The public is "clueless". It just goes to show you what our worse half of progressives think about AMERICANS!

They are not "clueless"!!! Americans are smarter than you think and don't forget it!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Pffft!
Yeah, cuz I'm so influential people are voting or not voting Dem because of me...Puhleeze. :eyes:

People are already opposed to Bush's nonsense, now is the time to change the subject to HIS credibility. Make the argument about HIM not SS. It's called politics and framing and it is EXACTLY how you win elections.
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faarmer liberal Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:38 PM
Original message
Ya, you tell us how to win elections ........
because what you say to do is exactly what we have been doing and LOSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. LOL! Really?
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:45 PM by Beetwasher
That's what we've been doing? Framing things properly and taking the initiative and attacking? LOL! Err, on what planet?
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faarmer liberal Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. People are SICK & TIRED of the attacking. They have tuned us out as ..
radicals and poeple with too much time on their hands!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:50 PM by Beetwasher
Man, that's some planet you're living on...People are sick and tired of it? Uh huh. Yeah, the Repubs NEVER do that! Look how much they fail when they attack a war vets patriotism for example! Yeah, people are so sick and tired of it that that attack was fiasco...
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Yes...Get out the graphs...
And show us how much of Social Security fund has been spent under Republican presidents and how much has been spent under Democratic presidents? Also, show us how much deficit spending has occurred under Republican presidents and how much under the Democratic presidents? And then tell me the Republicans are the PArty of fiscal responsibility. Have you drank the kool-aid also?
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Attack his credibility
* On the "lockbox promise, as you mentioned
* on the use of Scare tactics like he did with Iraq
* on the stupid suggestion that "IOUs aren't worth anything"....those are federal obligations dammit! How dare he suggest that government bonds are worthless.....it undermines the faith and credit of the US government!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke:
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. get out the tapes NOW ...and start impeachment hearings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:24 PM
Original message
I think that may be what they want ?
But Bush needs the Republicans in the House and Senate to make any headway on this issue. If they pass it and Bush gets all the blame, and he is a lameduck, what have we accomplished? Just a thought...
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. I Don't Think So
They are expecting the Dems to do what they always do, attack the proposal w/ facts and figures. Instead, they should attack Bush's credibility. It would outflank them and be an unexpected attack. IMO, of course.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. It is true...chop off the head and the body will die....
like a snake.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Republicans opposed the creation of Social Security
and have been trying to destroy it ever since .
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. the republican Congress is a better target, imo
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 02:32 PM by Cocoa
especially the ones up in 2006.

edit: Rick Santorum comes to mind...
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yeah, Actually I Should Ammend the OP to Read a Broad Attack On ALL Pubs
Indeed! :thumbsup:
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Yes, definitely
it should be about the entire GOP. Right now it appears that 'they are all the same anyway', that's what they have been doing to us. Why vote for the dems they aren't real. People have to see a very clear difference between the parties.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. Make SS Bush and GOP's "Waterloo"
i.e. their final, crushing defeat. After Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo, that signaled the end of the French Expansionist/Empire Hegemonic Era.

I'd like history to record something like, "after GW Bush tried to undermine and privatize Social Security, the GOP suffered a crushing defeat, and they never recovered their former power and control over the United States."

The thing is to keep beating it long after it's dead. Keep talking about how bad an idea it was, recall stories about how it was defeated, how they tried to starve our old people, etc.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Yup
Crush them on this and forever let it be known that they are the party out to destroy SS.
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