Remember Kent State ?

Could that happen again? Sometimes those in power think a "show of force" will quell those dissenters. Are we in a similar environment as we were in 1970? Nothing would surprise me with this bunch.

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in my opinion. Would that be wrong?

It was a tragic and sad wake up call for all Americans.

Could it happen again? Yes, if things get bad enough, I fear it could.

It's ultimately going to wind up in the hands of the (largely Republican) military/paramilitary police forces to put down dissent, even rebellion in this country. I have my doubts as to whether they will be as conscientious as others we have seen over the years -- in other countries -- who would not fire on their own people.

The thing about the boomers is that there were simply more of them than previous generations, therefore it would follow that more of them would hold different political views (a larger group of examples yields a greater pool of variables) than previous generations. And the unprecedented prosperty most were born into also allowed for more time and income to be spent on trying to improve things for the greater number of people.

Thus, more of them were more apt to actually do things like march in the streets, shut down campuses, join the Weatherman, drop out, etc. etc.


Since the 60's revolution failed, the powers that be realized that free time was a crucial factor in making such radical changes occur; thus, they have made us work harder by raising the cost of living. Most people just don't have the luxury of time to organize and protest since they're busy working 2-3 jobs just trying to mkake ends meet.

This is not a coincidence.

The relatively paltry numbers of protestors these days does not overly trouble those in power.

could that be enough to make up for few people and less time???

I wonder.....

I do absolutely agree with you that having us work just to make the payments is all part of their grand scheme to "quiet" the voices....and it all really sucks!

typos edit argh

I can assume you don't know what you're talking about.

YES Kent State could happen again.

It would take a rigid dip shit GOP Governor.

A draft (we are moving in that direction)

Fear of change by dip shit GOP

Students turned into the "other" (love it or leave it bumper stickers on dip shit GOP cars)

Class warfare -- National Guard -- filled with lower class below average teenagers who are barely high school grads -- taught to hate "them college student slackers -- commies".

The number of "boomers" doesn't matter -- there were that many college students -- but this was one of the first battles of the class warfare.

The Rove gang has been using class warfare -- they learned the lessons of Kent State.

We grew up, as you said in a period of unprecedented prosperity. At the end of WWII, we had the only large economy that was strengthened rather than damaged by the war. There were more families who culd afford to live on one income which was the norm. This also meant we got an unpresedented amount of attention and were given expectations of being able to succeed up to the levels of our ability.

The culture was also fascinated by the young. Time magazine even made the younger generation the man of the year. Woman's fashion was best worn by those under 30. The Beatles by the 1966, 1967 were considered to be very talented by adults.

Then as the war grew, the draft became a dark cloud that hung over everything. I went to a large big 10 university (68-72) where the guys spent hours worrying about what they should do. I also knew kids from high school who went to Vietnam and I knew some fellow students who were vets.

The sense of anger was different than what I hear now, because I think many of us genuinely believed the mythology of America never doing anything wrong that we were raised with in the 50s and then we bought into the idealism of Kennedy. The anger we felt that our government would do something we thought was wrong and use us, a very priviledged generation, to do these things and to die led to a very real rebellion.

From my daughters (highschool/college age now),what I hear is that there was more cynicsm as they never had the level of naivity we did. This and the fact that there is no draft may explain we the campuses are not like they were in the late 60s.

http://www.eclectica.org/v1n1/reviews/wharton_plot.html

Read about the Bonus Marchers of 1932 (and the plot to overthrow FDR). This is the equivalent of America's Tienanmen Square !

The Kent State police riot just made the war end that much sooner as most people I knew at the time, conservatives included, had had enough of the lies---which were obvious by then---being told from the administration.

riot control battalion. We drilled 8 hours a day one week a month specifically for riot control. We attended every event in Washington DC including May Day and the Vietnam Moratorium. Half a million protesters at each event. No major confrontations.

The outrage in my company was palpable. That a weekend warrior would be issued live ammunition when those of us soldiering all day every day were not just blew us all away. The NG Major in charge was not even in uniform, wearing a Hawaiian shirt for God's sake!

Yeah, I remember it well.

The Guard and Reserves of today are a whole different animal from then. Still, without proper training and leadership it could happen again.

Allison Krause's father was a colleague and neighbor. He was a broken man - never recovered.

Sandy Scheur - a cousin of a cousin. Out in the parking lot, holding a kitten, and moving her books and clothes into her mom's car to drive back to Youngstown. I had last seen her seven year earlier at a family event in Youngstown. Killed by a "warning shot" - a "warning shot" that was "fired in the air."

Note to one appender who posted:

"I remember - it was a single gun happy National Guard member ...
that started the ruckus. Don't pin that on our soldiers or National Guard in general. It was just a single hot head National Guard member that started shooting and then others shot thinking he was being fired at!"

I am a rare bird in the DU forum -- a Viet Nam era veteran and a commissioned officer - even if "only in the Coast Guard" -- but what happened there when the remaining Guardsmen fired was a total and complete breakdown in communications, command, control and discipline. And the only difference between a MOB and a body of soldiers is COMMUNICATIONS, COMMAND, CONTROL, AND DISCIPLINE. A total and complete failure of leadership - from the NCO's to the LT to the Generals to the Governor.

I fault Governor Rhodes, General Del Orso and General Canterbury - no better then Petro and Blackwell (and my roots are in Ohio - Northeastern Ohio - as in the "Cleveland -Akron -Canton - Kent - Medina - Youngstown Metroplex"). Those Guardsmen were exhausted, had been deployed too long without adequate or rest.

It was not a single hot head soldier -- it was a squad was over worked and over stressed and over exhausted. A total failure of leadership.

I have been there - I had my gold bar on my collar, and my silver bar on my collar, and my two silver bars on my collar, and my gold chin strap.

Heck, I have even been at Camp Peary in Port Clinton OH.

a total failure in leadership.

That is what happened on 9-11, in Iraq and again at Abu Ghraib.

It is a travesty what these bastards have done to our country.

there was a teamsters strike going on at the time.

Actually, I do not believe that there was a complete breakdown in communications, command, control and discipline. A failure of leadership "yes."

I watched Del Corso give the order to fire, the soldiers were in formation, and they fired on command. Standing on the hill by the architecture building, my friend and I who had just come from the photo labs with a fresh camera were able to photograph the entire thing with a telephoto lens.

Most of the pictures taken that day by students never came back from processing. However, ours never was commercially processed and I've looked at the raised hand of Del Corso, and the guards kneeling in formation many times.

The FBI knew about the film and visited many, many times. They never found it...

This year is the 35 anniversary.

I don't know if such a thing would happen now. With the government controlled by one party and the MSM pretty much parroting what the white house says, even if something were to happen, it would probably get little coverage. What coverage the "incident" got would be blamed on malcontents and troublemakers.

New lyrics to the CSN&Y song "Ohio"

"Vote Fraud in Ohio"
by Mark Robinowitz
http://www.oilempire.us/stolenelection2004.html

Lost ballots and Diebold's counting
We're finally on our own
This winter I hear Bush laughing
Vote Fraud in Ohio

Gotta get real ballots
Paperless taking us down
Should have been done long ago
Keep blacks from voting and
TV won't make a sound
Kerry won, but he said no.

Vote Fraud in Ohio
Vote Fraud in Ohio
Vote Fraud in Florida

He said students were running away from the Guards who were chasing them in one direction and ran up against other Guards coming from another direction. This second group of Guards didn't expect the stampede and panicked.

I knew people who were chased by the Guard wielding bayonets in another city for no reason. Supposedly it was a case of mistaken identity.

Incidents such as that happen wherever you have civil unrest, especially when the Guard or police have not been well trained to deal with the situation. Everyone comes unglued in riots.

Look at what's going on in Iraq.

Half the letter writers were horrified, but the other half said that those "pro-Communist" protestors deserved what they got.

Of course, some of the students who were killed or injured weren't even protesting, but were hit by stray bullets.

I still am shocked that they opened fire on college students. It still seems surreal.

at a protest right now. The poster will post pics as soon a the sister gets them in. I think, if protests continue and the crowds get larger, then armed force could be possible again.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/27/1027497418339.html?oneclick=true

>snip

"FEMA, whose main role is disaster response, is also responsible for handling US domestic unrest.

From 1982-84 Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defence preparations. Details of these plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal.

They included executive orders providing for suspension of the constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the president and FEMA."

>snip

During Watergate the "Huston Plan" was basically for the identical thing, only Nixon was impeached first. The details of the Huston Plan, I believe, are part of the impeachment offenses listed.

http://watergate.info/impeachment/impeachment-articles.shtml

though not detailed -- Article II #3 especially.

I was in sixth grade. Fully half of our counselors were from Kent State. Around every campfire we all learned protest songs and as I cried with them I learned who I was going to become.

somewhere near Kent State at that time when a bulletin came on the radio telling about it. At the time, I was unable to put it into historical perspective.