Do many in here believe/expect an Honest election in 2008?

I'm curious as to what others input on this is being that Diebold and friends will remain in check.

Without some big changes, this nationwide network of godless thugs will control the "election" once again.

fifty chance. BushCo could just say we don't need one, or the military could get fed up with his asinine adventures and stage a coup. If there is an election, it might even be honest, by then the tide should have turned against the Repugs so strongly that staging a "victory" might be impossible (at least a believable one) and the Diebold types might think twice if they think they might be prosecuted by Democratic U.S. Attorney and there was no one in the White House to pardon them, although by then the Repugs will probably own the federal judiciary including the Supreme Court.

that part of the experiment is gone forever

officials cannot be held accountable for fraudulent elections.

until we are strong enough to bring this regime down. That said, we have to redouble our efforts to win each and every election, to get the highest level of support possible for Democratic candidates. The way we are going to end this nightmare is when we are strong enough, have enough popular support, to stage our own 'orange revolution'. The only way we get there is to make the fraud and malfeasance manifestly obvious.

It's working for them! :shrug:

they understand a great many people feel that way, but they are not convinced there's a problem.

Excuse the pun, but the "problem" is sorta like, well... an "elephant in the room".

I don't think the election of 04 was rigged. Sure, there were lots of "irregularities," but I do not believe that there was a widespread conspiracy to fix the election.

I think this causes lots of liberals to fall into a trap. They/we think "we won this election" so they don't focus on the issues of our party, instead focusing on voting rights (which of course is important, but should not take precedence over other priorities of the party).

So, to answer your question, I do believe that the election in 08 will be fair, at least in the big picture.

And nation-wide, 30% of American voters were NOT “very confident that their vote had been counted accurately”. (Annenberg study - page 2
http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/naes/2004_03_mindset-bush-kerry-supporters_%2001-05_pr.pdf).

You need to educate yourself (see links below) on this issue my friend. You will see that without meaningful election reform, we will never be able to have a fair voice in our government again.

Was it possible to steal the election?
read this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x339274

Here's a good place to get a good overview:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=331151

Then read what you like in the 2004 Election Results and Discussion forum :
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203

They had motive to steal the election.

They had opportunity. The e-voting system used is easily corrupted, evidence of corruption is easily hidden, and they control the private interests who made the e-voting systems.

They have a history of stealing. The 2000 Florida election is an example of intent.

It's quite OK to be ignorant of the stolen election, it is not OK to believe they couldn't, or wouldn't, do such a thing.

They did steal the election and everyone who educates themselves about the recent events comes away believing they did. Except for those who are in denial.


Even denial is understandable, too. Denial steers one away from the gawd-awful truth that no longer does an individual's vote matter.

Bad News:
1) Geographic/Electoral College Impact - Maybe 2 million votes against.
2) "Spoilage"/Provisional Ballots, etc. - 1.5 million votes
3) Registration Depression & Suppression - 1 million votes
4) Vote Suppression plus fraud - 2 to 3 million votes (any more and it starts to glow like neon).

Good News:
A 5 to 6 million plurality probably wins it... tough but not impossible.


...or we could try for a free and fair election.