Why don't Americans demonstrate more?

I was on the subway coming in to work today, and I overheard a conversation between two women, and they were discussing the recent toll fare hike, and one said, "You know I don't know why Americans don't demonstrate more, like Europeans do. In Europe, they're always demonstrating, shutting down the government, and they end up getting what they want. Nobody does that here."

She's right - we don't demonstrate anymore really. That all seems to have died with the closing of the Reagan era. There are demonstrations every now and then, like re: the Iraq War or coming out to support Kerry, whoever, but it doesn't seem spontaneous or really grass roots.

Why do you think that is?

You only demonstrate if you are pretty angry about something. Also, lots of folks have jobs.

our debt spigot yet. We haven't had to give up our Hummers, McDonalds and DVD players. Life is good. We don't associate our false affluence with massive pain and debt around the world anymore than most people associate steak in the store with a cow in the field.

But I fear reality is going to intrude pretty soon. And when it does I fear it's going to be worse than most people could ever imagine. Empires do not collapse painlessly.

,...count for nothing?!?!?!?! :crazy:

RECORD PROTESTS,...not only in this country but also abroad,...are NOT BEING ACKNOWLEDGED?!?!?!?!

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!!

I have two 3" binders full of pictures of protests across this country.

STOP DIMINISHING WHAT HAS AND IS TAKING PLACE WITH RESPECT TO "THE PEOPLE" TAKING A STAND!!!!

When you do so,...I get viciously angry. :grr:

and COWARDLY, they don't see how to bring about real change. They leave these things up to their "elected" officials, who, for the most part, are fucking useless, aspiring to office out of ego.
I would love to see mass demonstrations on a number of issues. I think it would scare the "elected" officials into action.
Demonstrations OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE.

The protests "of the people, by the people, for the people" have NO HISTORICAL PRECEDENT!!!! The protests have involved a broad spectrum of "the people" and have exceeded anything comparable to the 60's and 70's.

Just 'cause we're in a corporatocracy-controlled information dissemination DOES NOT MEAN we are not in the streets making a history that will be influenced by our activity.

is one of the reasons Europe's economy is in tough shape and jobs are scarce.

What on earth is the point of demonstrating to "get" something? Society's fail when the population force the treasury's largesse on themselves.

How you connect protests with "treasury largesse" is a mystery. Would you contend that the civil rights struggle - a movement that used street demonstrations as its major tactic - was aiming for "treasury largesse?" But they were trying to "get" something: access to full citizenship in American society. There is no necessary connection between demonstrations and what you are strangely calling "treasury largesse."

I wonder, however, whether you are as concerned about the treasury largesse sought by organized industry lobbies. Apparently, this kind of treasury largesse causes economies to flourish? :eyes:

Yep. As demonstrated by the $US/Euro exchange rate. :eyes:

by their record unemployment rates.


http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=au9SZbFca.qQ&refer=home


Not that porotests have anything to do with it, of course.

the unemployment numbers only reflect people collecting unemployment insurance, not those that are no longer ineligible. And besides, most European countries have free healthcare and a social safety net of some kind while people are unemployed.

I'm sure they'd still like to have jobs. It is folly to suggest that the Europeans are not dealing with sluggish economies. I'm not sure what danger the truth poses to your presuppositions about the matter, or where you get this bizarre inflated figure of 15% for our own unemployment rate - Europe is figured on exactly the same scale as our own. The Economist Magaizine puts US unemployment at 5.4 (and shrinking), while Germany's is 11.7 (and growing), France is at 10.0, and Spain is at 10.3. Britain is doing well at 4.7, but they're the best of the bunch.

I think Europe is swell and all, but they're not in as good a shape as the United States by a long shot. Currency exchange rates mean nothing, and ours being undervalued is a boost to many of our industries and export markets. When our goods are less expensive, the world buys more of them.


http://news.ft.com/cms/s/208734b2-91d2-11d9-8a7a-00000e2511c8.html

EU economy 'at same level as US in late 1970s'
By Tobias Buck in Brussels
Published: March 11 2005 02:00 | Last updated: March 11 2005 02:00

The European Union's economy is today where the US economy was in the late 1970s, according to a provocative study.

It shows that the employment rate attained by the EU in 2003, the latest for which comparable data are available, was achieved in the US in 1978. Research and development spending in the EU matches the US level in 1979.


What's the point in pretending that Europe's economy is doing better than ours if that really isn't the case?

right wing media outlets isn't going to win you too many arguments here. I'm just saying. :hi:

Far less than the Wall Street Journal, and yet they can also be trusted in their reporting on unemployment rates. I'm kind of missing your point.

To me, The Washington Times is right wing. Newsmax is right wing. Bloomberg is pretty much middle of the road.

Looks like a swoop n' poop!

What was the name of the communistic country the US did reunificate with?
I mean, you stated that the unemployment numbers are comparable, so there has to be one.

You need to get your news from someone other than Rush and Hannity.

That is to say, the street demonstration as a form of protest may be more appropriate to a historical era that has passed us by. Perhaps we should develop new weapons and forms for social movements that are not mere farcical repetitions of the social movements of modernity. Hell, maybe we already are developing such weapons...

While I think it's good to think about demonstrating in new, different ways which will attract attention, is there anything more powerful than seeing a large, angry crowd, out there, off their duffs, screaming "we want this" or "we want that"? I think that's very powerful and influential, as long as the demonstration remains peaceful and non-violent. Probably more than anything else.

Still, it seems to me that the "protest crowd" has been successfully circumscribed and defined, and I really am not convinced that the figures shouting angrily in the street have as much persuasive power as many believe, despite their numbers. They are always very localized, even when it is a global protest as we saw in March 2003. And it's hard to break through the layers of meaning that have been attached to the protest crowd in order to reflect on the real issues. I'm not sold on its continuing effectiveness.

During the Ukrainian elections, it was so amazing to see how many of the people took to the streets to protest fraud. We should have done that - in '00 and '04. Whenever folks in the U.S. get mad about something, they just sue, which isn't always effective.

If John Kerry had gone to the streets in Ohio and asked for loyal Democrats to join him until ALL THE VOTES WERE COUNTED, how many would have joined him?

No time, no money.

Somehow, it seems like a majority of the generation after Vietnam seems to greet government actions which impact their lives with a shrug of the shoulders and a combination of "what can you do about it/not my problem/doesn't affect me, why should I care about it?.

It WAS heartening, however, to see the HUGE demostration that happened when the wingnuts held their convention in New York last year. It looked like every citizen in the state was out there. :)

that "why do Americans say, 'well, there's nothing you can do.' Hell, there ain't." I concur with her 100% on that.

They don't know that protesting is an option, or because of the MSM's stupid coverage of protests--when they bother to cover it--they think EVERYONE who protests ends up in jail, pepper sprayed, etc. That's what the MSM usually shows.

In the rallies before the invasion of Iraq, I attended rallies in my city --a very Republican city, I'm afaid.

Two of my co-workers, in their 20's and both college grads, one liberal, one conservative, were surprised that I hadn't gotten ARRESTED! Just for attending a small rally! (Things haven't gotten that bad YET.)

showing up more and more.

What happened to posse comitatus?

I watched a video online recently from NJ protest on SS. It seemed small, but lining one side of the street were at least 6 camo covered trucks. i posted asking the woman that shot the vid about it but she never replied.

Very unsettling to see military at such a small protest.

I mean, Paris is only what 200 miles from Berlin?
Europe is really small, with a lot of people. People
don't have to go very far to demonstrate stuff.

If that fails, then go shopping. You'll feel better, and you'll forget about all of these bad things in the world.

Americans are consumers, not citizens. That's why they don't protest. However, outlaw SUV's or something like that, and you'll see people rioting in the streets.

We can now bypass the damn media filter and air our views directly.

a lot more politically aware than we are. They also have lots of small parties that actually do win seats in their parliaments and have some say in how things are done.

And, they have more of an ability to stage general, and often random, strikes. Anyone who's lived in Italy or France knows part of the excitement of life is not knowing if the milk trucks will arrive today, or the workers will be pissed about something and just walk off.

by the media . . . most Americans have no idea what's happening in Iraq or even right here in their own country . . . and as long as they have their SUVs and their mp3 players, a roof over their head and food on the table, they'd just as soon not know . . .

All of our protests are downplayed. The only people who are aware are the protesters and the local people who actually see the protest.

Corporate media stays away and most everyone believes there were no protests.

thing that has almost ZERO political implication, and so long as you can get food cheaply, and easily, a majority of Americans simply can't be bothered to care about much more.

to live. Amerikans, really, not deserving of the 'c' that denotes those who came before us.

I think it is because our National Personality has swing from The People Who Defeated Hitler to The People Who Gratefully Allowed Hitler Into Power.

You would expect courageous behavior from such a people as we?

When you don't know your neighbor's name, it's hard not to feel as if you are the only one that sees trouble. We live in a society that encourages this, and it makes it harder for people to network and band together. Keep listening to your radio, watch your tv, go on the internet, all in the comfort and privacy of your home. I guess another valid answer could be because Americans don't care enough to do such things anymore.

And at least one major celebrity distraction a week? If people spent the amount of time they do on fantasy football on politics, this country would be much better off.

Today if you asked everyone you know that is a democrat to attend the march on the 19th.,how many do you think would show up ?

even if we're truly pissed off

In Europe, you can take a train to another country in no time.

How can a whole bunch of us come to DC and assemble on a regular basis?

protest over and the government in this country doesn't respond to them anyway. There are several important issues that have just been completely taken off the table by both parties. Most of the public supports national health insurance, but neither party offers a candidate to run on this platform because they both are supported by corporate lobbies that oppose it.

they are standing in to get out and protest. They might miss a "special"! Can't risk that, now can we?

Europeans still have the horrors of war and fascism in their collective memory so they are more likely to take to the streets than we are. They are more politically aware because they remember how quickly things can change for the worse.

We've always been a comfortable distance from the daily deprivations of war, so our protests historically have been conducted by groups who have suffered or who are likely to suffer, such as those who participated in the civil rights marches or protested the war in Vietnam.

Also, the media is complicit for only showing the fringe elements or riot police busting heads.