Arianna Huffington says Jon Stewart has crossed to the Dark Side

Tell me it ain't so.....

http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=763

They got to JON!!!

As she says - it is "the Fallacy of the Undistributed Middle. For those of you in need of a refresher on the concept, here's an example from the first chapter of my Logic 101 textbook: "All oaks are trees. All elms are trees. Therefore, all oaks are elms." See how easily you can go from point A to point Z, jumping over all the important steps in between?

So: We invaded Iraq. Change is afoot in the Middle East. Therefore, the Middle East is changing because we invaded Iraq. Q.E.D. G.W.B.

See how simple it is? And how illogical? The Bush White House has been masterful at this infantile reasoning: America is free and democratic. Terrorists attacked America. Therefore, terrorists hate freedom and democracy. And that's all anyone needs to know."

But I was worried about Stewart...
Was happy to see him modestly ripping Bush last night in his old fashion, commenting on the state of punditry, and the night before, ripping the MSM for focusing on Jackson, Martha, etc.

I just wish he'd do more of the roasts akin to his Crossfire appearance. That was a beacon of hope in an otherwise depressing election.

I just do not leave him on any more since he longer knows or will engage in conversation about why he is wrong.

I think even Michael Moore can subscribe to this...

You hear it all the time. Even the best liberals have fallen prey to this disease (Kerry said it all the time on the campaign trail).

You know it. Something as obvious as mentioning the PNAC (even though they still have their signed doctrines online) or talking about the issues with voting machines and the facts that Republicans own them. They also try to shy away from the reality of the Right Wing mainstream media, and they take overly cautious positions on the war.

Same line, different liberals spouting it because they are afraid of the left wing looney tag.

Ridiculous I know but you never heard the Right condemning their own for the Clinton-is-a-murderer claims, and we're backing off of proven facts. If it were only the Bush knew about 9/11 (MIHOP or LIHOP) claims, I could understand a bit more, but they're retreating from every issue.

That's why they win.

Rp

are now pro-Bush, and then only gives an example of Bill Maher.

Bus she claims that it was only an act.

i always wondered why an austrian immigrant, and a greek immigrant, from opposing parties, and running for the same office, would have so much in common on anti-immigration!

how much of an act...

but I'm not sure we should trust her much.

She's awful quick on the attack here...

She should have gotten an Academy Award for that performance.

a "wanna-be-Republican" IMHO.

RL

What's she talking about?

That was a great show!

from what I can tell.
I don't see Arianna's point, at all, with regards to Jon Stewart.
Bill Maher, yes, and I wrote him how pitiful his logic is and challenged him to read foreign newspapers instead of our own crappy media - but, Stewart just had Tom Fenton on the other night and they tore the MSM a new one.

Jon isn't a RWer.

She just threw in his name, and said nothing more.

before they comment:

Jon Stewart:


“What if Bush, the president, ours, has been right about this all along? I feel like my world view will not sustain itself and I may, and again I don’t know if I can physically do this, implode.”

http://frankwarner.typepad.com/free_frank_warner/2005/02/jon_stewart_als.html

That's a legitimate wondering and self-examination.

I too, would implode if he turns out to be right.

Regardless of what heppens in the Middle East, there is NO outcome that could prove him right. Even if SOMEONE ends up better off because of this war (hard to imagine), Bush still made the WRONG decisions at every juncture. The absolutely MOST positive thing that could EVER be said about Bush's performance is that he lucked out.

I don't like Jon talking like that, but I still wouldn't consider it to be going over to the dark side.

I don't think we have to worry.

However, introspection and self-examination is never unhealthy.

I noted King Jon's strange observation a couple of weeks ago--why his retort stuck out was that it was the current 'tag' phrase that seemingly cropped up in a few MSM editorials.

Basically it was some reference to 'Bush talking point' about 'causing democracy breaking out' in the ME.

Of course, Stewart like rest, swallowed the 'lie' that the illegal invasion was--um for liberation and freedom and not what is was originally sold as, 'security', or what is really appears to be as a 'radical re-shaping of the ME to nullify any autonomous sovereignty, mollify Israel and make sure global access to oil passes through American control'.

In fact, if one really wanted to analyze the Daily Show, one can see the typical hallmarks of manufactured radicalism--that is present a 'patina' of Progressive rhetoric regarding the lack of 'hipness' among conservatives, a few druggy references and slight irreverence regarding people in power with ridicule, while essentially leaving system safe from any sustained critique. This type of thing reinforces the the fraud of a 'democratized' public space.

Take the Daily Show headline: Mess-o-Potamia! First it already suggests the racist view of the ME as being backward and confused, secondly it purposely suggests moral and political equivalency between both invader/invaded (abuser/victim) and thirdly, suggesting that like any mess--it can be cleaned up, fourthly, the 'pun' itself simultaneously undermines historical legitmacy and claim and makes it seem like the 'problems' are age-old...etc etc

Sure it's funny--but from an American perspective virtually any corner of the planet can be reduced to a 'mess' in need of American know-how.

But your right--people put way too much into mass culture as their saviour/confessor, but afterall, they have been trained from a very early age to do it.

especially this part:

Take the Daily Show headline: Mess-o-Potamia! First it already suggests the racist view of the ME as being backward and confused, secondly it purposely suggests moral and political equivalency between both invader/invaded (abuser/victim) and thirdly, suggesting that like any mess--it can be cleaned up, fourthly, the 'pun' itself simultaneously undermines historical legitimacy and claim and makes it seem like the 'problems' are age-old...etc etc


is exactly how it strikes me.



Yes, his show is funny however many times I have WTF? reaction.
It floors me that Jon still doesn't see that bush & co. are all about PNAC.
Not sure that Jon can look at Israel without blinders.
http://rantsbyhiley.blogspot.com/

WHY IS OIL AT 57 DOLLARS

Maher is a JACK ASS, always has been always will be

He has no respect for anyone, and is so full of crap

I do not be Stewart has crossed to the dark side

theocracies. I think this is what Arianna is worried about, and what Jon Stewart and Bill Maher fail to comprehend. BTW, Arianna shows us that she's right since Bush is now cozying up to Hezbollah, you know, the guys who murdered 281 Marines in Beirut in the 1983 attack

"U.S. District Judge Royce C. Lamberth said the suicide truck bombing was carried out by the group Hezbollah with the approval and funding of Iran's senior government officials."
from http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/30/iran.barracks.bombing/

Hezbollah is now a major player in Lebanese politics. Hmmmm. How do you Leathernecks out there feel about Lebanon electing Hezbollah members ? I'd love to hear the responses to that question.

Also, no mention in any of this is the fact that we're stuck with being in the Middle East/Caspian Sea region with all kinds of new bases the MSM is failing to mention.

CSMonitor did awhile back but no one followed up.

Maher is a putz ,but Jon Stewart too cool to go with the turd maggots

something to the effect of "So, Bush was right?" This happened when they were discussing Iraq.

Last night, however, I watched with glee as Jon trashed Wolfie and the War in Iraq; so, I don't believe that he has crossed to the Side of Evil at all.

but it's not the question, but the answer that should infuriate people.

n/t

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I always thought she was holding Poopy's balls for safe keeping but EGADS she a set herself?

But she has a point. There is a strong, but arguably deeply naive, outbreak of support for the Iraq adventure among Jewish-American men otherwise not easily fooled. (Yes, Bill Maher is a halfling.) The 'Israel button' sadly overrides some amount of cognitive function, and not just among 'Evangelicals'.

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Give that man a ceegar.

I suggest both of you read some of her books before rushing to judgement.

Beyond everything, he's still a guy from Jersey. He'd have to be a psycho to go over there.

Not to mention, when I went to a taping, one of the writers (head writer?) came out to warm up the audience for Jon, and a FOX employee was there (in a suit, which is how he noticed him), and he had a bit of fun with that, ending basically by pointing out that he was *not* a fan of either the network nor their master.

So even if Jon has, he'd still have to contend with everyone else--you know, creative people in Manhattan. And so many of them are Republicans, snicker snicker.

Look, the bit about Jewish males is nonsense. This boils down to-once again-left, and right. The Likud is Bush is Likud.

Get it?



Bottom line: Murder is not good. Stealing is not good. Bush and Sharon are not good.

afraid they're regrouping and organizing.

.... she hits the nail on the head damn near every time.

-

s/he may be among the few who actually READ the column.

AH is expressing the views that many people at DU have expressed, and they are anything but conservative.

.... in that I think for myself and I don't really give a rats ass what anyone thinks of my opinion :)

That said, while I don't necessarily agree with every point in the essay (i.e. that Jon Stewart has sold out, that's nonsense), her overall point is 100% correct and it is well stated.

If we had more Dems who could speak like AH writes, we might start accidentally winning a few elections.

Upon actually reading TFA (The F*in Article) i see it is hardly about Jon Steward crossing to the dark side, though the least i'd say about her claim regarding him (and Maher) is that they do not support * even half as much as the typical supporter does. After all Steward and Maher do in fact critisize the king more often then not, and the thing to do when one supports Bush seems to be to not critisize him at all.

in this thread commenting on an article that they apparently did not read. This is a wonderful article.

I think both Bill Maher and Jon Stewart are putting to much faith into this huge media spectacle that's going on right now. Clearly the current goal of the US corporate media is to convince all Americans that the Middle East is becoming a beacon of peace and democracy overnight. I can't explain why Maher and Stewart are buying it right now, but I think they'll come to their senses soon enough.

People need to stop taking comedians' views seriously.

The degree of discussion about the politics of Maher/Stewart/Miller/Franken on DU is a sad commentary on the state of both our actual media and our comedy.

Bill Mahar actually believes it is.

.... he's fucking with us!

This was recent - the clip was on crooks and liars - Jon didn't seem to be apologizing for Bush in any way shape or form. It sounded to me he was clowning on the SS plan with Krugman.

Stewart hasn't "converted". Sure, he's mentioned some things along the line, but he has not gone as far as supporting Bush. And if Maher really said that, I've thought him smarter than that-- to jump on the bandwagon, the "great-leader-Bush-was-right-all-along" (even though he never will be; if democracy is ever brought to the Middle East, his (Bush's) mistake in attacking them because they were "a threat to us", can NEVER LOGICALLY BE SEEN AS "HE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG".)
Maybe Bill's been hanging around Anne Liar-Coulter too much.

I've got my issues with a certain drop-off in quality on TDS since the election, but for the most part think it's still sufficiently critical of Bush and neocon agendas. I know some viewers were outraged that he provided essentially no sketches about the U.S. election crisis, but in his defense, he and TDS writers must take their cues about subject matter from MSM--it is, after all, a "fake news" show. As there was little meaningful coverage of those events by the popular media, it would have been difficult for Stewart to justify devoting whole sketches or lengthy pieces of his monologues to the issue.

Does it drive everyone else crazy that even people on our side accept unquestioningly that Bush desires democracy in the ME? He doesn't desire democracy in the US. He doesn't even know what democracy is ... he thinks it's the corporate feudalism that put him in power. The guy is a christo-fascist loon, thirsty for ME oil; he's not fucking Thomas Jefferson. The "left" carrying on with these assumptions is the most effective method of indoctrinating the public with them, in spite of their preposterousness. Arianna's fallen for the the logical fallacy: I said it, therefore it's true.

She agrees with you.

I wonder about famous people who go over. Are they being bribed? threatened? Or is it an honest defection? There's no way to know.

She's Greek, isn't she?

is either thoroughly uninformed, unbelievably gullible, or just plain stupid . . . maybe all three . . .

the possibility that Bushco was stumbling to success in Iraq.

It was more like he was being balanced by way of thinking out loud about the mountain of good press the MSM was heaping at Bushco's feet when things suddenly looked so sunny to them after the Iraqi elections.

That's the only moment I saw from Stewart and I watch his show regularly.

It was, in retrospect, reassuring in a way. It confirmed that there was a real live thinking and deliberative man behind his on screen personality.

Without Stewart things would be noticeably grimmer.

No example given on J.S.

No indication of any "selling out".

Maher on the other hand, is irrelevant. I found him amusing but never found him very witty or funny for that matter (although I did enjoy his rips on religion). He just seems full of himself.

is a brilliant, principled woman of great integrity, courage, and insight. She's definitely got major street 'cred' and has never wildly oscillated from one political extreme to another. I am inclined to seriously consider her opinions on all subjects. Except, I can't help it, I like Jon Stewart. Still, if Arianna says it.....

As for Bill Maher... he's just plain dull.

I still don't see how Bushit can crow about Democracy being on the march when their is such unmitigated unrest in Iraq.
I even wonder if that whole package of voting statistics was mere propaganda. I cannot see the MSM actually reporting that there was a low turnout, their mouth is so firmly affixed to Bushit's cornhole, I just don't see it.

I have always been a proponent of ignoring Words over putting an emphasis on Action

This very day, the Action in Iraq is not Democratic, nor is it productive, nor progressive, nor peaceful

I'm e-mailing it to everyone I know :)!

She names Maher and Stewart, she only quotes Maher. What the deal yo?

If she can't see the difference between Bill Maher and Jon Stewart, than she is not as intelligent as she would like us to believe.

you self-serving wretch.

Julie

since that's where she came from!

His job, as it's developed, is to take the media to task and to be on the side of truth. His job is not to hate Bush 24/7. That just seems to come with the territory when you have some regard for the truth. He can't exactly be the one to get at that truth in the context of a pre-taped half hour show that's not even on when he's on vacation. Considering those constraints he does remarkably well. When it seemed that Lebanon might retake her rightful place as an enlightened democracy in the ME, it wasn't inappropriate to be prepared to be generous to the administration. It only adds to his credibility. If the truth is out there, we win and that's what he's about at the moment. Sometimes I wonder if he wonders how that happened, but it does seem to be the case at the moment. I have faith in the guy. What he wants for America will make us a better country than we are now.

Bill Maher just demonstrates that even a douchebag can be right some of the time, but for Bill, that time might be over for now.

"After this, therefore, because of this."

Huffington is right, as usual -- the entire Republican preen-show rests on a logical fallacy. Maher and Stewart should know better -- and worse, so should our fucking Democratic leaders.