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Privatization? Personal account? How's about "National 401(k) Plan"?

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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 05:09 PM
Original message
Privatization? Personal account? How's about "National 401(k) Plan"?
My husband received an opinion survey (through Knowledge Networks) earlier today wherein a new way to save the Social Security program was presented. It's now called a "National 401(k) Plan", folks!

Don't know who KN was doing the survey for; but, if it had been sent to me, one of my comments would have been, "Is that you, Luntz?"

Oh . . . BTW . . . how does the new plan work? Simple! Put 15% of the Social Security fund into the market. Basically, the same-ole same old idea: Make Wall Street happy under the pretense of saving the Social Security program . . . but . . . with a couple of new ideas (?) for bait: raise the FICA cap to 140K; enroll all state & local employees in the Social Security program.

Wish there had been some way to have saved that survey for reference . . . and wonder if anyone else has heard anything about a "National 401(k) Plan".

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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Raise the FICA cap to 140K? And still face cuts when you retire?
Edited on Fri Apr-01-05 05:16 PM by tsuki
Don't think so.

How about we raise the FICA cap ot 140K and nix the rest.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's was my husband's opinion, too. [eom]
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TheFarseer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't understand
what's wrong with having IRAs or maybe requiring more employers to have 401k plans. People already have tax free options for retirement. I just can't see their complaint.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. My husband told them "The devil is in the details.", adding that . . .
. . . . they hadn't given him enough details in some of the "ideas"/questions/etc.

Can't remember the exact wording but, at one point, he said something about their having found a way to "fix" the problem (funding) and, then, sabotaging it by risking the fund in the stock market.

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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. How about Confiscated 401K Plan?
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trudyco Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Now that is sick!
We should just take off the cap on FICA. No ceiling. Maybe have a ceiling for the corporate matching part, though, or they'd balk.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Maybe that's what's meant by erring on the side of the living? [n/t]
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. National 401k is logical and progressive- so no chance in hell- the design
Edited on Fri Apr-01-05 05:33 PM by papau
for the "progressive version" is below:

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=289151

Is there room in Washington for a true bipartisan agreement on Social Security reform that increases national savings, individual ownership, and ultimately retirement security? It's a tall order, but doable if both progressives and the president are willing to consider the following four-part framework for bipartisan Social Security reform:

A Universal 401(k) to Promote Ownership, Savings and Bipartisanship: Progressives and conservatives alike should support serious efforts to increase savings, ownership and wealth creation for typical hardworking families. Yet these goals are achievable without dividing Washington by carving up Social Security into private accounts. The president and progressives could both protect Social Security's guaranteed benefit and promote ownership with a new Universal 401(k) that offers all Americans a private retirement account on top of Social Security, and uses government funds to match contributions made by middle income and lower-income workers. The Universal 401(k) would spread individual savings and wealth creation to tens of millions of American families currently falling through the cracks by offering all Americans the generous incentives and automatic savings opportunities that the best employer-provided 401(k)'s offer their employees. The components of a Universal 401(k) include:


Generous $2-to-$1 government matching contributions for initial savings of low-income families and $1-to-$1 matches for middle-income families. By targeting new incentives to those families having the hardest time saving, the Universal 401(k) would be designed to leverage new private savings.

A new Flat Tax Incentive of 30 percent for savings done by all workers. In addition to matching contributions, the Universal 401(k) would institute a new flat refundable tax credit for retirement savings. The credit would replace our current upside-down system of incentives for retirement savings through tax deductibility, which offers those in the highest tax brackets the most generous incentives to save and lower- and moderate-income families little or no incentive to save.

A single, portable account that benefits families by continuing to provide strong savings incentives for parents who take time off to raise children or who are between jobs.

Stepped-up efforts to strengthen employer-provided 401(k)s by encouraging more employers to automatically enroll their employees. Employers would also be encouraged to make it easier for employees to automatically link 401(k) contributions to their salaries to ensure savings does not stagnate. In addition, the Universal 401(k) could include reforms to make it easier for families to directly deposit a portion of their tax refunds straight from their tax form into retirement savings.

A 5000-to-1 Tax Cut: If financed in a fiscally responsible manner by increasing the estate tax exemption to $5-7 million per couple but avoiding outright repeal, the Universal 401(k) would mean that for every wealthy estate that would see higher taxes, 5,000 Americans would get a tax cut that could help them someday build an estate of their own.
Mutual Sacrifice and Responsible Financing: How can the president convince anyone that there is simply no way to fix Social Security other than accepting painful benefit and tax changes, when he just passed tax cuts for the top 1 percent of earners that if made permanent would alone be enough to cover the 75-year Social Security shortfall projected by the Congressional Budget Office? Progressives should insist that any Social Security financing plan be based on the principle of mutual sacrifice – and should ask those most fortunate to bear part of the burden. The best option for mutual sacrifice would be:


A 3 percent surcharge on all income over $200,000 – whether from income, dividends or capital gains – dedicated to increasing national savings now and increasing Social Security solvency.

The new surcharge would affect only the top 2 percent of taxpayers and, by taxing all income equally, would avoid introducing new distortions and incentives try to turn wage income into dividends or capital gains to avoid payroll taxes.

The surcharge could be contingent on a bipartisan agreement to find equivalent savings to shore up Social Security through measured revenue and benefit changes.
Real Progress on National Savings and Generational Responsibility: The one thing nearly everyone in Social Security circles used to agree on was that as we moved closer to the baby boom retirement it was increasingly important to display generational responsibility – to make the tradeoffs to increase national savings now to ensure that we were putting our economy in a better place to deal with known challenges down the road. Indeed, the improvement in the federal fiscal picture in the 1990s – which was substantially driven by a commitment to fiscal discipline and saving surpluses for Social Security – was solely responsible for a doubling of national savings from 3.1 percent of GDP in 1992 to 5.9 percent of GDP in 2000. On the verge of the baby boom retirement, the Bush administration has abandoned the principle of generational responsibility and passed successive rounds of long-term tax cuts that have taken us giant steps backwards – contributing to an erosion of national savings to only 1.4 percent of GDP over the last seven quarters, the lowest level since 1934. Even in the wake of this deterioration, there is too little focus in policy discussions about Social Security on increasing savings now. Distressingly, the new gold standard for Social Security plans seems to be that they at best do no harm to national savings. With our national savings at historic lows and the baby boom retirement at our doorstep, it is absolutely essential that any Social Security reform plan move us back in the right direction by ensuring that we increase national savings now.
Commitment to a Bipartisan Process: While Universal 401(k) accounts outside Social Security alongside mutual sacrifice and recommitment to increase national savings now could provide the substance for a deal on Social Security, the only times when Washington has actually been successful in taking on tough entitlement challenges in recent years without painful political backlash has been when there was a sustained commitment to bipartisanship. Both progressives and President Bush need to heed the lesson that brought Tip O'Neil and Ronald Reagan together on Social Security reform in 1983 and Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich together on entitlement savings in the 1997 Balanced Budget Agreement. If these past leaders have been able to work together on a bipartisan process, the Bush administration and Democratic congressional leadership should be able to as well, but it will require President Bush to display a level of commitment to working through a bipartisan process that has to-date been absent from his fiscal policy approach

http://www.americanprogress.org/atf/cf/{E9245FE4-9A2B-43C7-A521-5D6FF2E06E03}/SOCIAL%20SECURITY%20-%20Sperling%20WEB%20FINAL.pdf
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks for the link.
Printing out the document to read offline after giving it a quick look-see.

One of the "ideas" in the opinion survey was something about wage earners being able to invest 4% of their annual income in the National 401(k) Plan . . . the "Plan" would be voluntary, in that folks could "opt out" . . . and low income earners (who, I suppose, might be expected to opt out because they're living from hand to mouth in the first place!) would have their investment "matched" (up to $1000) by the government--the "match" to be funded from estate taxes paid by those with incomes over 3.5 million dollars.

Lots to read and consider, isn't there?

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. yes - but this addon version adds to savings and fixes any long term
SS problems without destroying SS.

Good Luck.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'll have to read the "add-on" plan . . .
Edited on Fri Apr-01-05 06:42 PM by Petrushka
. . . when my slo-o-ow printer finishes making a hard-copy to read.

I guess my main questions, at this point, are: IF Social Security can be "fixed" by raising the FICA cap to 140K, why should Social Security funds be used to fund an "add-on" such as a so-called "National 40l(k) Plan"? IF a National 40l(k) Plan is such a great idea, why shouldn't it stand on its own feet rather than leaning so heavily on the Social Security fund? I mean: 15% of the Social Security fund invested in the market for an "add-on" ain't exactly pretzels!

:shrug:
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Your call was a GOP Plan - not this one - and the 15% was chosen so as to
confuse with the 1998 Clinton proposal that dealt with ONLY the Trust Fund investing rules. He wanted only 85% of the Trust fund in gov bonds - the rest in equity/non-gov bonds.

The Clinton 15% had nothing to do with private accounts.

The above "progressive plan 401k" has no 15%

The GOP call was the Senator L Graham plan of using the increase to 140,000 monies to fund a 15% of tax into private accounts plan - it is a carve out that destroys SS and sucks. Sorry for being confusing.

:-(

But I thought I would show you a Dem alternative that really fixes the only problems - low savings via a matched 401k via universal payroll deduction - the match paid for via general funds 3% surtax on incomes above 2000,000.

Plus a wage cap raise to fix long term SS funding - for a while. The wage cap should be totally remove - and all would be well forever! And even with the conservative Bush assumptions chosen to make SS look in trouble, no wage cap fixes 93% of the 75 year problem!
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
Still haven't read the printout I made of the Dem "add-on". So-o-o . . . Gonna shut 'er down for tonight and start reading.
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dcfirefighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't like it
Because I don't want to be in the SS plan, and I'm not. Thankfully, I've got a pension. I'm a state & local employee.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. I'm not in your position, but . . .
. . . I don't like it either!

Welcome to DU!

:hi:
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-01-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. Almost forgot to mention the most INTERESTING survey question:
Are you a born-again Christian?
Yes
No
No opinion

Considering that ALL of the other questions were about Social Security and/or the National 40l(k) Plan, I'm wondering what my husband's "No opinion" opinion says to those who threw such an asinine question into the mix.
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