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Very chilling statements tracing Bush's ploy to cull Christian votes...

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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:08 PM
Original message
Very chilling statements tracing Bush's ploy to cull Christian votes...
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 12:13 PM by TwoSparkles
The following quotes are from Doug Wead, Bush Sr's 1988 Campaign Adviser. Taken from an interview with PBS's Frontline, I doubt Wead realized how revealing his words would eventually be.

Wead's statements reveal how George W Bush first realized that he could win elections by snagging the "Evangelical vote." It's chilling...to read the genesis of Bush's ploy that would eventually put him in the White House.

Doug Wead's comments are continuous. However, Frontline chopped up the conversation with quotes from others. For clarity, I took out those quotes.

Doug Wead's conversation begins with comments about George W Bush helping his father secure votes in the 1988 Iowa caucus. Bush Sr. was losing ground to Pat Roberson in the caucus.
--------------------------------------------
DOUG WEAD, Campaign Adviser, Bush Sr. 1988: Just before the vote in Iowa, when we saw we were going down, I convinced G.W. that he ought to fly into Des Moines and visit with some of Robertson's people and see how easy it is to build a relationship for his dad.

<snip>

DOUG WEAD: And the conclusion was afterwards-- I said to G.W., "We could take out every one of those churches which are the foundation of the Robertson campaign and we could emasculate his effort in the South. And you see we could do it very easily." And he saw it.

<snip>

NARRATOR: Somewhere along the way, he caught a glimpse of his own future.

DOUG WEAD: And sometimes he'd even say out loud, "Yeah, I could do this in Texas. This is what I could do in Texas." And sometimes he'd mumble when we'd talk about the numbers and where they were and he'd just almost salivate. "Wow." Said, "I could win the governorship of Texas with just the evangelical vote."


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/etc/script.html
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. A wolf in sheep's clothing ........ ?
wonder if the right wing Christians bother to read their bibles? I sincerely doubt it ...... :think:
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priller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. No, they don't
I remember hearing an interview with Don Evans, the current commerce big-wig and long time Bush pal, talking about when he and Dubya went to "intensive Bible study" for a week, after Bush's miraculous conversion. Really got in there and dug deep. Except he couldn't remember what they studies or what parts of the Bible they read.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. that was hilarious - Al Franken - a Jew - knew the new testament better
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 02:56 PM by Mr_Spock
than these Bible study ass holes. These wolves need to be hunted to extiction...
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #22
53. Now when a Jew knows more about
the New Testament then a Christian then that is quite humiliating!
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. The Anti-Christ.........
if he EVER existed or exists. I hope that someday, all of this comes back to bite him in the ass. THOSE Christians are NOT nice people. They will kill for their cause and should not be trifled with.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. They have bible study workbooks
and are directed to sections of the bible the hard right uses to justify its anti Christian policies. They don't read their bibles. They assign chapter and verse to catch phrases in their bibles. They spend a lot of time in Leviticus and a lot of time on Paul. Mark and Matthew are barely touched.

Were they ever to sit down and read their bibles cover to cover, they might catch a clue. Instead, they're sent on accountant's errands, sticking numbers onto buzzwords and platitudes.

It's really sad.
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Mich Otter Donating Member (887 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. We all know that Bush does not read.
He is only going to get information that is spoon fed into his small, dense mind. Once he gets information, he cannot do any critical thinking to reason out what he has been told. The man is so pathetic. America deserves better but, our country has been dumbed down to the level the Bush and the Republicans can win elections.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
54. For people being Christians
they sure do spend a lot of time with the old testament and not enough in the new and especially the gospel books.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
52. Sometimes I wonder
I do wonder with how they are with following someone like Bush. :\ Two other good documentaries to watch about this are "With God On Our Side" and "When God Entered the White House." It's quite scary knowing the type of person Bush and his family is and what happened.
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. I swear
churches should be threatened with taxation.There seems to be a very thin line between church and state and the repubs are erasing it fast.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. There is no line anymore.........
churches actively campaign for candidates now and should have their TES revoked. I'll just sit here and wait for that to happen. :eyes:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
55. Not all churches do
The one I attend doesn't. Sometimes though I think that all churches should be taxed because of how you never know when one is campaigning. But then I think it might be a bit unfair to those churches who do follow the rules. :shrug:
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, another chilling piece in the story of W's ambition-driven
transformation into an artificiallly produced icon that evangelicals would follow like hypnotized slaves.

What will it take for them to begin to suspect it's all a lie, that they've been manipulated from the first? First they must admit they're wrong about their assumption of what their god wants, which seems to be the single biggest barrier. Then they will have to open their eyes to what evil their choice has wrought. So they prefer to stay blind.

"I know of only two things that are infinite.
1. The universe
2. Man's capacity for stupidity
And I am not sure about the former." –Albert Einstein

Recommended
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Rural Red is a scary place...
to live. Because the rightwing voters here are willfully blind. And quite as nasty as Bush. From my observations, everything is all about winning to them. Power at the top, period.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. They are convinced Shrub will force through the laws THEY want!
The want:

Roe v Wade GONE!

Religion taught in public schools.

Fed funds to support Christian Schools.

Gay marriage ban. (Actually they want homosexuality banned.)

Evangelicals to rule the world!



Think about it. Shrub IS pushing for all those things! Wether he can force them into law, I don't know, but they'll follow him anywhere because they believe he will do his BEST!
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. all the while, neocons USE evangelicals/sheeple to gain power...
“to cut government in half in twenty-five years,
to get it down to the size where we can
drown it in the bathtub.”
grover norquist

all the while, * IS the anti-christ...
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. They are brain dead from Faux "News"
Most rural folks don't have enough visitors, unlike urban people. They are rural now because many want the lack of human contact. So they are insulated from the truth that is not Faux induced reality.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Welcome to DU, k j! Your red state experience is different from mine
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 01:31 PM by Nothing Without Hope
Your experience in a rural area is different from mine - I found a mix of people, same as everywhere else. Both extremes and the middle too. There's a frequent assumption on the coasts that people from the interior of the country, especially in the rural areas. are all narrow-minded hicks, but it isn't so. Some of those states would have gone "blue" if the election hadn't been stolen.
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. And some of them were a deep shade of purple
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 01:44 PM by kliljedahl
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Love your concept: "BBQ for Peace"! Nice web site, too
I'm a native Texan living in MA. Though I have not yet found the ideal Mexican restaurant, I have finally found BBQ nirvana at Jake's Dixie Roadhouse in Waltham, near Boston. If you ever go there, I recommend the Memphis style ribs. My husband and I share a half-rack with some extra sides and some really fine beer we've never heard of before and some extra sides - and bliss!!! Red state/blue state crossover!

There really is a major problem with stereotyping of non coastal people as stupid Bush-loving hicks. You see it here at DU all the time, and it is very destructive. It also forwards the neocon ploy of divide-and-conquer. We need to be more outspoken in combatting it and educating the coast people on the truth about midwestern and southern people. And vice versa.
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Glad you liked the site
BBQ for Peace is a movement, albeit a small one. Mainly fundraisers for various causes. Not very organized & small, but we're getting better. I'm in Indiana, one of the reddest of the red, but there still are some reasonable people here. Not very many unfortunately. Mitch "The Bitch" Daniels is now our governor.


http://www.kliljedahl.net

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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Being in a very red area means that you are not "preaching to the choir"
but rather that you are surounded by people who need to hear the truth and may respond positively when they do.

Here in Massachusetts, many of the Bushlovers have already heard the truth but are deliberately resisting it. It's hard to reach them because they have a vested interest in believing or pretending to believe the blivet**. Lots of Bush bumperstickers on those Hummers and Mercedes.

"Mitch "The Bitch" Daniels"? Oh, my... But I can tell you, MA's conservative governor Mitt Romney is a pain too, only more polished in his suits, speech, and hypocrisy.
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kliljedahl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. His campaign slogan was "My man Mitch"
I changed it a little, he was *'s budget director so apparently the Bushco drones here wanted him to do the same thing to our budget that he did to Bubba's. Go figure.


http://www.kliljedahl.net

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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. No stereotyping
I live in Rural Red, and the vast majority of people here love Bush, as do my relatives in the great Red State of Indiana. Even the smart ones.

The Selling of Bush has been a masterful accomplishment. Bush is the hillybilly hick, not everyone who voted for him is. And not everyone who voted for him is overtly religious. But he's the Right's Bubba, make no mistake about that.

I enjoy watching the implosion... but it is nowhere near the halfway mark from where I sit.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Maybe not the halfway mark yet, but doubt has begun to set in
and there was none before. People with doubts are far more open to the truth. Certainty equals blindness. I think many people are to decent and patriotic themselves to imagine the scale of evil and treason perpetrated by the criiminal cartel that has usurped the leadership of this country. But once the absolute trust is broken and the doubts begin, they can also begin to perceive the hypocrisy and the lies. And they do heartily hate being lied to by thieving hypocrites.



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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Hope...
agreed... and those voters are going to need "cover" and ways to save face (as well as candidates they can identify with) after this hard fall... which is a crime to me, because in the meantime, so many people are falling hard without any cushion.

But, without something done, besides The Daily Show, to counter the corporate media, any candidate that begins to resonate with the American people that isn't vetted by the fundies is going to be struck down immediately.

If there was ever a time for boots on the ground, door-to-door, right where we live, it's now. Fruitless as that endeavor seems to me most days.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. One way to approach this is a new idea, "The Paper Chase"
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 05:11 PM by Nothing Without Hope
It's one answer to the question of how to reach people who do not know they are being lied to by the propagandizing Poodle Press but cannot or will not get their news from more accurate sources on the internet. They are isolated from sources of truth and so they do not realize how completely they have been lied to.

With The Paper Chase Project, copies of copyright-free articles on important issues, laying out the truth clearly and with documentaation, are xeroxed and, with local permission, left in places where they will be found and read. Simple but effective. Read about it here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3379870

This is something that needs to be an ongoing effort. For reasons not clear to me, the forumators of this project see it as short-term. Nonethess, this is a good idea that can work. News providers are signing up to write the articles, and the rest is up to local people who want to spread the truth.

Edited to add: I believe you raise a vital point about these people needing special help to keep them from falling so hard when the truth begins to dawn on them. Despair is utterly destructive. We need hopeful things to point to, constructive things they can join in, candidates -- as you say -- that they can identify with. Part of the evil propagated by the corrupted media is that they have built a world view in which blind obedience to the cartel is the only route to security - everything else is terrifyingly insecure. ALL the news reported is negative. It's an aspect of the conspiracy that isn't as obvious as the fawning and distortion about the cartel politicians. It's the other side of their strategy - keep the masses thinking there is no alternative, no hope. We MUST counter this - not just with the truth but with causes for hope and new directions that will lead to positive changes. Otherwise, admitting the lies equates to admitting to despair as well as admitting to being fooled by the leaders they trusted.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. "The Paper Chase"
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 05:36 PM by k j
Thanks for the link! Some people I worked with during the last campaign suggested doing something very similar, but nothing came of it. I agree, this could be done long-term and not just for a couple of weeks.

Of course, we're going to run into the crowd that immediately dismisses anything that doesn't support their worldview (which means anything that has The New York Times or Washington Post as a masthead), but there is real merit in this idea, in the waiting room of a doctor's office or the corner coffee shop, minds can be influenced.


Oh, just read your edit. Yes. The near-constant state of fear (and I think victim-hood) that keeps many clinging to BushInc as if to a lifeboat *has* to be addressed. This group has gone so far past framing, they're into mind control, in my opinion. Subtext of the Terri drama was, "Those godless heathens (which includes anyone who doesn't vote Republican) will KILL you!"

I mean, the fact that even now some people won't acknowledge that 9/11 had zero to do with Saddam or Iraq means the prospect of facing reality is way, way, WAY too dangerous to do alone.

I don't know. Maybe the candidate for 2008 has to be decided underground (before corporate media gets wind) and soon to give us time to infiltrate the landbased crowd. (Said half-in-jest.)


Edited to add: Hope is vital. We have to keep it ourselves and we have to spread it where we can. As your log-in suggests.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I think this is why Edwards and Obama connected so much better than
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 05:54 PM by Nothing Without Hope
Kerry did. They could relate to them as people not so unlike themselves in their hopes and dreams, and these candidates kept emphasizing that the people DO have the power to change things for the better. Kerry, in my opinion, did not have that kind of oratorical power to connect, and their uncertainty about him was easy pickings for the Poodle Press and the Swifties.

These candidates' success is encouraging.

Edited to add: and it's important to always keep in mind that despite everything the neocons and the collaborating media could do, Kerry DID win the election, including in some of the red states. He and Edwards WERE getting their message through to enough of those people to win.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Yes
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 05:53 PM by k j
VERY encouraging. :)

I was an early, staunch and never-say-die Kerry supporter, but I agree with your assessment. What oratorical skills he had in his early years were corrupted by decades of 'senate speak.' Edwards doesn't have that limitation, nor does Obama.

I dislike re-playing the campaign, and haven't done it to date, but what I would have given for Kerry to have laid flat the swiftboat liers the minute they showed up. One good punch would have gone farther than 10 photos of him shooting a rifle. Besides, he had, what, two or three of those men on tape WITH him, speaking FOR him, during his race against Bill Weld that were never pulled out and used. Sigh.

Anyway, I do hope the Dems will come together for the general sooner than 04, because we have to. And I think the underground campaigns have already begun.

Edited to add: AND, I want the message(s) refined and distilled NOW! (I'm not asking for much! lol) Because I want to do what I can to put those messages out there in the public discourse ASAP.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I agree - and the message has to have TWO parts
One that the Bush administration is corrupt, hypocritical and bad for the country and the world, and
Two, that in clearly described, real ways, there IS hope and this is NOT the end of the world. The disempowered have to see that they CAN take back their country and that the future can be better.

Without both parts, it isn't going to work. Even with a terrific candidate.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Two parts hope!
I think one way to separate the identification with Bush is to re-introduce the idea of what it is to be an American. (And a Christian, for those who want to take that challenge on.) There is already a huge disconnect between what Bush says he stands for and what he does, but for however many reasons, that wasn't drawn clearly enough during the last campaign.

I don't know, but maybe a way is to talk about what has happened, and what is happening (9/11, Iraq, Abu Gharib, Medicaid, etc.) *without* overtly pointing to Bush, Republicans, etc. Just point out the fault in the logic and the "un American" ness of it all.

Separate the action from the person. Then provide an alternative. Then attach the alternative to a candidate.

???
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I think Bush DOES need to be held accountable.
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 06:34 PM by Nothing Without Hope
There are lots of people besides the candidates who can step forward and present proof of his lies and hypocrisy. There was too much reticence about this before, I believe. There are so many ways to do this, and it HAS to be done in many ways to reach all levels. There needs to be articles written, films made. Look what a difference Fahrenheit 9/11 made. Even spreading around the best editorial cartoons helps. For example, I really like Tom Tomorrow's cartoons, like this devastingly on target one from some time back, titled "Moral Bankruptcy":



And then there are the "serious" editorial cartoonists for the big newspapers. Some of what they have done is devastating.

Even the mass media is starting to come out on what Bush really is. You MUST read this Newsweek article, you won't believe what he comes right out and says about Bush's hypocrisy in the Schiavo case:

Here are the first four paragraphs:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7305206/site/newsweek/

Take a Look in the Mirror


The pols confused law with theology and allowed tabloidism to trump privacy.
By Jonathan Alter
Senior Editor and Columnist
Newsweek

April 4 issue - When he was governor of Texas, George W. Bush presided over 152 executions, more than took place in the rest of the country combined. In at least a few of these cases, reasonable doubts about the guilt of the condemned were raised. But Bush cut his personal review time for each case from a half hour to a mere 15 minutes (most other governors spend many hours reviewing each capital case to assure themselves that there's no doubt of guilt). His explanation was that he trusted the courts to sort through the life-and-death complexities. That's right: the courts.

I bring up that story because it's just one of several ironies that have arisen in connection with the Terri Schiavo saga, in which the president said that the government "ought to err on the side of life." Fine, but whose life? The inmate who might not be guilty? The poor people across the country denied organ transplants (and thus life) because Medicaid—increasingly under the Bush budget knife—won't cover them? The poor people across the world starving to death because we won't go along with Tony Blair when it comes to addressing global poverty?

Or how about Sun Hudson? On March 14, Sun, a 6-month-old baby with a fatal form of dwarfism, was allowed to die in a Texas hospital over his mother Wanda's objections. Under a 1999 law signed by Bush, who was then governor, cost-conscious hospitals are empowered to decide when care is "futile." The Hudson case is the first time ever that a court has allowed bean counters to override the wishes of parents. "They gave up in six months," Wanda Hudson told the Houston Chronicle. "They made a terrible mistake." Wanda apparently was not "cable ready," as they say in the television world, and she failed to get Randall Terry and the radical anti-abortionists on her side. Tom DeLay never called.

Could there be—perish the thought—politics at work here? Knowing that they cannot deliver on a gay-rights amendment or abortion ban, Karl Rove & Co. settled on bonding to the base with the Schiavo case. The beauty part, as Ross Perot used to say, was that they could be cynical and sincere at the same time, even if it meant twisting themselves into ideological pretzels. The same conservatives who have spent the last generation attacking "judicial activism" and federal intrusion in state jurisdictions were suddenly advocating what they had so long abhorred.

(snip - more at link)


Edited to add: In holding Bush accountable, it has to be made clear that he is merely the front man for the ENTIRE NEOCON AGENDA, and that other Repub candidates espousing that agenda must be defeated. We can't give them the opportunity to say - "yeah, Bush was bad but it wasn't our fault."
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. okay, okay...
okay, yeah, sigh, etc., let's hold Bush's feet the fire. I confess, I'm more than a little tired of battle with the 'wingers who think he's the next best thing to God and would love to find a way around even mentioning his name. But, that's not to be. No way around denial. I stand corrected. Bush is accountable, he must be held accountable.
I'll need a new flame-retardant suit, however. :smoke:

Just recently declined to renew Newsweek, (their article on Teresa Heinz Kerry was the last straw for me) and so miss Jonathan Alter. This is a great piece, thanks for posting.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I think it's important that the people see that they've been LIED to.
And the blivet**-in-chief is at the head of the liars. As long as the supporters believe he's sincere and the neocon policies he extols are things he really does believe are good for the country, the hypnotic spell won't be broken. But once they begin to understand that there are lies, it all can begin to unravel.

I especially like Steve Gilliard's distinction of the fringe freak elements of the RW fundies, which he calls "the ultras." It's THIS group that the neocons have teamed up with, and they are not only totally insane, they are utterly unforgiving about what they view as betrayal of their objectives. They are most PO'd with the Bush Bros right now because "they let Terri die." The pseudoreligious wackos that the GOP sold their souls to for power and money aren't the fundamentalists, they're the Ultras. It's an iimportant distinction and, I feel, another basis for hope. We may not be able to reach the Ultras with truth or logic, but the other fundamentalists are not as closed. And a majority of all people identifying themselves as evangelicals DID oppose the government's intervention in the Schiavo case, as I believe I mentioned above. Here's one of the passages where Steve talks about the Ultras on March 28, during the Schiavo crisis:

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2005/03/nanny-state-on-steroids.html
...We're not dealing with factory workers here, but ultras, the hard core. Ultra is a term used in European football to describe the diehard fans, the people who protest to fire a coach after a loss. Bush and Bush didn't jump into bed with the pro-life moderates, but the ultras, the hard core. These people are extremists and they expect to win. They aren't going to accept a good try. If you fail them, they will seek revenge.

I think Jeb got talked to Friday. When he was told about the polling and how being seen with Pat Mahoney was not smart. So he ran. The problem with ultras is that they are never pleased unless they get their way. And Jeb was close to committing political suicide on Thusday, maybe an hour away. If he had moved to grab Terri Schiavo, he wouldn't be worrying about impeachment, but a murder and kidnapping trial while he sat in custody and a massive civil suit. The unreality of people like Bennett and the NRO egging Jeb on was amazing. They didn't care about the consequences.

They thought 25-50,000 people would join them out by the hospice.

Ah, the delusions of radicals. They think the revolution is coming, it never is and if it was, they wouldn't be part of it.

(snip)

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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. whoops...
Nothing Without Hope, didn't mean to imply that everyone here in this rural red area is a rightwinger... because the makeup isn't that solid. There are still a few Kerry/Edwards bumper stickers around, and liberals can be found on campus, as well as in some deeply rural areas. There are a few places I can duck into during the day for a brief, "how's your blood pressure today?" minutes. ;-)

But... the rightwingers that *are* here are hell-bent on "Bush's way or the highway." Even when they disagree with what he's doing. It's amazing. I've never seen anything like it. It reminds of me one of my aunts during the Goldwater years.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. From what I have read from people who are there
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 03:00 PM by Nothing Without Hope
...the Social Security scam and the intrusion into the Schiavo case have not set well with those "hell-bent" conservative Republicans in rural red states. The fact is, the blivet**'s policies are not conservative at all--they're radical by any criterion-- and his actions in these two prominent issues make that clear. There's some head-scratching and muttering going on now where there was pretty much unanimity before. Wish I had bookmarked some DU threads that reported this. One of them was from rural Texas, not that far from the blivet**'s pseudo-ranch. Those good ole boys were royally PO'd.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. no, SS and the Schiavo case didn't set well...
The state I live in is now totally Republican controlled. The first thing the new (yet another dim sun) Governor did was announce huge cuts in Medicaid. Cuts that extended all the way to the bottom line of corporately owned nursing homes. The outcry. Oh my.

Listening to a co-worker try to explain how his wife was about to lose her job as admin of one of these nursing homes, while still professing belief that the cuts had to be made, was like watching a bug try to find its way out of a closed window.

Until these people are hurt themselves, and then can find a Democrat who they can support, ie, gives them enough cover (candidate must be openly religious, know their Bible, played straight, come up from nothing, etc. etc.), they'll stay right and they'll stay red.

And justify their Big Daddy's cuts. I repeat. It's amazing to watch.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
50. Not all rural people in red states are ignorant, I assure you!
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Seems to me he emulated the Islamic religion that is so demonized
religious fervor equals recruits or in this case votes for your cause or manipulation. A case of the pot calling the kettle black I would say. What will the evangelicals do when they find out they have been used and thrown away like an old dish rag, can I hear the word?---violence.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes...
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 01:08 PM by k j
violence. After all, it was the suffering in Mel's movie that drove the 'wingers to the theatres. 'Wingers, in my view, are all about playing the victim card. They like to think about Christ suffering for them, because they've suffered and been so maligned all these years, you know, for their bad perms and all.

The fact that their Christ resurrected on Easter never quite does it for them.

Watching so many rural red conservatives up close as been a lifechanging experience! They are a force. A great, big, mostly unconscious force of creation.
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. Chilling is right - I'm speechless! nominated! n/t
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. I think they were surprised from the response
that they got from their actions around Terri Schiavo. I think they were starting to believe their own lies that this extreme right wing nutty christian fundy attitude is the majority because that is all that is covered by the MSM. It shocked them that the response from the general public was to let it alone, and note how they backed away from it pretty quickly except small comments here and there to placate their "base".
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. correction..
ermm..

Bush didn't win either of his presidential elections. Each was stolen from the Dems by serious GOP tampering with election rolls, voting machines, and disenfranchisement of minorities.


Sue
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yep. I have said all along
that he is a fake "Christian" who used the "born again" angle to get votes. It is really sad and frightening that it has worked so well.

What would it take for the "but he's a fine Christian man" segment of the vote to catch on?
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Jawja,
I don't think those voters would admit it if they did catch on. The wedge has been driven deep and it's going to be a long, long four years. Independent media and on-the-ground-campaigning-starting-now are our only hopes, in my opinion.

I know college-educated Christian conservatives who voted a straight Republican ticket who didn't agree with Bush's positions, who don't agree with the state's budget cuts, who go so far as to blame "bad advice" for each and every snafu by George.

They'll also stand there and tell you, even now, with a straight face, that 9/11 and Saddam were linked. These are bright people. It's mindboggling. And proving them wrong doesn't do squat. It's more than framing issues, it's identity issues.

I'm still looking for ways to combat this burka. :) Gotta be a subtle, but thorough, undressing. With something "suitable" for them to put on, immediately.
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Unfortunately,
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 04:27 PM by Jawja
you are right. I've got a Bush voter in my family who would rather have him - fake Christian and All - than one of "them Northeastern LIBERALS."

On the brighter side, I have another Bush voter in the family who is beginning to see the light and who is not very happy about it.
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
34. this was on a pbs show during the elections
they compared different times of the lives of Kerry and shrub. They showed shrub actually saying these things during this time. I have no idea what they titled the show.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Yep
I have a staunch military-family sibling who supports GWB completely. In fact, I'm the only "liberal" among my siblings. Sad, sad, sad.

I've yet to see cracks... with a few exceptions to blame "bad advice" (as if some sneaky Dem got in the chicken coop and actually whispered in Bush's ear)... in the stranglehold the Republicans have on the conservative voters where I live.

However. 25 local people were laid off yesterday from a state agency. The fact that these people are neighbors, friends and relations MIGHT do something to open some eyes.

Sigh.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. It's called "the Choice" and the transcript is linked to in the OP. n/t
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. oh, sorry I didn't realize it was the transcript of that show
I thought it was a transcript of just him talking with wead on an audio tape.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
36. An amazing article from Jonathan Chiat...
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
37. This was in 1988? What year did Bush stop drinking?
Edited on Sat Apr-02-05 05:17 PM by Virginian
Is this right before Bush "Saw the Light", Stopped drinking and took up the bible?
I have long believed he was a fake Christian who quoted the Bible just for the votes. This further makes me believe that he is the Anti-Christ.
Republicans will stop at nothing to gain power, even pretend to be Christians to get votes.

Iowa was in Feb and Bush quit drinking in July. Did both happen in 1988? Later in the transcript, the narrator mentions that Bush was already a born again. Is he getting his years mixed up or am I?
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-02-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. Doug Wead was the guy who taped Bush's confessions of drug use
n/t
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-03-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
51. He's the Pied Piper and they follow like
idiotic mice! I know of a few; both in separate states and live differently, nor do they know of one another. Yet, they have one thing in common: "Fear" of Revelations, "and" both are terrified to even read it which is why they ask me about it.

I no longer speak with them. They both turned wing-nutty after Nov 3.

It was as if they became spell-bound, lost in a world of confusion, based on fear.

Feels great to have a mind that functions, personally. Fundis are enabling the very ones that destroy us and them.
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