Tonight, I Feel Like a Dean Supporter.

After the whole "Yeaaaarrrrrgghhh" thing, I felt something for Dean that I hadn't ever felt before. I felt sympathy, yes, but the way the media distorted the whole speech (almost goaded or propelled him into the speech, if you will, by virtue of the pressure they themselves imposed on the Doctor), made me feel profoundly sad.

Never mind his stance on the issues. Never mind his record as Governor. Forget about his proposed policies. In one fell swoop, the mediawhores took all the grassroots organization and fundraising, and condensed it into a 13-second screech.

I didn't really fully comprehend it then.

I get it now.

Watching that "debate" on Faux, it was obvious who the intended target of the mediawhores (and consequently the right-wing). it was Wesley Clark. They played passive-aggressive. First ignore him and give the bulk of the time toward first Kerry, then Edwards. Then attack hard, with every right-wing smear out there. There was no room for "debate" where Clark was concerned. This was an ambush and both the nature of the questions posed to Clark and the time he was given to present his viewpoint are proof of this.

Yes, they tried to "Dean" Clark. They tried to reduce the whole grassroots "Draft Clark" movement and the inspiration of Clark's New American Patriotism into 'Clark is a one-issue stealth Republican.' To his credit, Clark didn't give them much ammunition. But, to my disappointment, he played it too safe.

Much has been made of Dean's temperament and his "anger." You know what? I want that fire back. Dean was right. Playing it safe isn't the way to go. I don't mean I want to see irrational rage. But I want to see the controlled, burning, righteous anger and indignation that I know Clark has.

Clark is no Republican. By now, I think Dean and America knows this. This "debate" was equally an ugly and good thing. Ugly because it was obvious the intention of the forum was to attack both Dean and Clark on a personal level. But it was a good thing, because now all the smears and dirty laundry are out there. The strategy of the Republicans is obvious.

Step 1: Take down Dean. (Kerry becomes frontrunner)

Step 2: Take out Clark. (Kerry solidifies frontrunner status, while Edwards surges, being the beneficiary of less coordinated and less intense attacks.)

And now we are moving on to the latter stages of the Republican plan. They want Kerry to be the established front-runner. Perhaps Edwards to come in second. Then they take down Edwards. Paint him as inexperienced, too young, too wet behind the ears. They'll say he doesn't have the strength to fight the "War on Terra." Edwards hasn't begun to taste a coordinated and orchestrated mediawhore attack. Once he crumbles, they'll look gleefully at Kerry. Kerry --the winner of both Iowa's and New Hampshire's primaries.

Not that it matters, but I think Kerry would suit the Republicans just fine. They think he'll bomb in the South. Who knows? I don't pretend to be able to outstrategize Republicans. But when I visited my relatives in Arkansas and Oklahoma -- just looking at all those Dean for America and Wesley Clark NAP signs on lawns made me feel really good about Democratic chances for winning back those Southern voters we lost. Now, I'm not so sure.

This is not to say the Republicans have succeeded with respect to their attacks on Dean and Clark or that Kerry can't win the South or even that Edwards is to young to beat Bush. I happen to believe all four candidates have the potential to hand the right's asses to them. That being said, what disappoints me the most is the feeling that our nominee might not be selected based upon who has the best plan for the future of America, but by who is the last man the Republicans (and by extension, the mediawhores) leave standing.

Both Clark and Dean, in my opinion, have a lot of fight left in them and I think they will surprise us. In particular, I've got to say, after this debate, I've earned a lot of respect for Dean. I'm almost maxed out for Clark and after I am, I will be contributing to Dean's campaign.

May the best candidate win.

But I would still vote for the guy who saved 1.5 million Albanians.

in the process..

But that's cool. You seem like a nice enough fellow.

:boring:

I'm with him until we get to the convention, if necessary. I believe he has what it takes. But Clark elicits a venom from the Repukes the likes of which even Clinton hasn't seen.

We've really got to get out of "safe" mode and start attacking them, as Dean suggested, on OUR terms. Period.

Anger be damned.

pretty good on Bush, but they need to hit Bush harder and keep it up if they want the White House back.

I'm a Dean supporter but I know he's not the only candidate who has been and will be smeared further by the right-wing.

Dean is right--we really need to frame the debate and not let the Republicans define us.

Oh, by the way---thanks Tatiana. I appreciate your post. :pals:

Dean is not the only candidate who is the "dump-du-jour." He's just been the biggest and best-positioned target. Doesn't matter. I'm still with Dean. But I will back ANY Democrat who's in position to take on the bushies.

Do we have a consistency problem?

:crazy:

Truly. :)

Later.

RJS

I've been feeling the same way. I think it takes it happening to your guy before you relize just how dirty the media has been playing this campign.

Clark was the target tonight. The hack-job was at its height.

I hope Clark and Dean stick to their guns and continue to fight. The whore media WILL NOT win!!!

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:hurts:

Well? Jokes aren't allowed?

:shrug:

Guess the winking smile face didn't tip you off, huh? ;-)

denoted humor or lightness, perhaps you missed the 'wink' smiley on the post.

cuz there's no way you can wake up in an empty suit, right?

the South so his homies will back him.

That's kind of racist! Are all Dean supporters as charming as some of the "wonderful" people I've met here tonight? :eyes:


Dean's like Jesus to some of you people, isn't he? Well....that's....sad.

Mistertrickster was a Dean supporter...:think:

I think your take is very astute. Thanks for posting this! :toast:

And I have been a NBD for the past couple of weeks. But, seeing Clark get Dean-ed like that tonight was just wrong. And Clark did a really good job standing his ground and making his point. I am actually taking another look at Clark, should Dean not make it through the primary.

I'm gaining a newfound respect for Dean. If nothing else, they both have resilience. :thumbsup:

It really sucks to feel like the rw controlled media is orchestrating our whole Democratic primary. :grr:

Good words! :hi:

The media is playing us like a fucking fiddle.

Hear that Kerry people they honestly want your guy! I have no problem voting for him, but wake up the media and the GOP is picking our candidate.

I think he's a great man, he's served his country honorably -- both on the battlefield and in public office. There would be no extensive and public knowledge of "Iran-Contra" or "BCCI" without his diligence and hard work.

I won't have a problem voting for him, if he's the nominee. But, is he the man the majority of Americans want for President? Will he give us something as progressive as Clark's tax plan? Will he get our soldiers out of Iraq and devise a sensible plan to stop the bloodshed on the part of Iraqis and Americans alike?

That's where I am starting to have my doubts.

...to do a little "Back to back, Batman!" :)

Later.

RJS

The GOP corporate whore media wants Kerry or Edwards to face Bush. They want an empty suit like Kerry to kick around to ensure Bush's victory. Thats why they've trained their guns on Clark and Dean. Even if Clark or Dean get the nomination, the sheeple will have been fully indoctrinated. Heck, its working so good, even Democrats are buying the tripe.

Which candidates have been viciously, PERSONALLY, attacked?

Clark and Dean.

Why? What are the Republicans so afraid of?

losing power. Power is their religion, they've got it now and they will do absolutely anything to hold onto it.

Can't let the unwashed minions pick their OWN candidate! :grr:

The DLC does not want grassroots candidates who actually excite their bases. Nice post Tatiana:kick:

and that very realization, I hope, will help diminish the vitriol between supporters of different candidates, will motivate all of us to work harder for change, and ultimately to get enthusiastically behind whichever one of our guys finally receives the nod.

Thanks for posting, Tatiana, your post gives one heart.

or compared to Nazis. The attacks on our camp haven't just been against Dean. They have been against his supporters as well. And the DLC has been just as bad as the Republicans. It's only beginning for you Clark supporters. I'm not sure how Clark will hold up to the attacks, but Dean has been utterly amazing. How anyone could ever think he couldn't beat Bush after all he's been able to withstand is beyond me. If the whole party was behind him rather than being manipulated with fear, Dean would steamroll right over Bush.

Give it time. If Clark becomes the frontrunner his supporters can expect to have the same type of shit hurled at them. Ditto Kerry, Edwards, you name it.

The Republican party will settle for nothing less than total bodily dismemberment of our nominee this year, and doing this includes demonizing the candidate's supporters (Club for Growth ad, anyone?). You can expect that around the time of the convention they will be airing ads that are reminiscent of Nazi propaganda films. If only Leni Riefenstahl hadn't died a few months ago, I'm sure she would have had a good directing gig coming up this fall.

Remember that whole "don't look into his eyes" meme? Implying, of course, that Clark supporters became hypnotized by him and lost all sense of reasoning, LOL.

I was so busy keeping track of whether I was a cult member or a self-actualization seminar attendee that I wasn't really paying attention to what other candidates' supporters were having to put up with.

That is fucked. I have never posted anything negative about another candidate, mostly just out of common courtesy. That anyone would try to disparage a candidate's supporters is just plain fucked. I certainly have no idea why anyone in their right mind would vote for George Bush, but it would never occur to me to characterize his supporters in a disparaging way. They're people I don't agree with, whose view of the world is different from mine. Simple as that.

I think you're exactly right- you called their plan perfectly.

I still think Clark is best, I still want Clark to win, but I want him to win fair and square, not because the media decides to take Dean down.

I've said before, I actually wanted the race to come down to Dean and Clark - both of them are talking about change and growth of the party instead of same-o-same-o politics with a little fiddling at the margins.

I totally agree with you!

Hang in there though, we've just begun to fight!

:hug:

Sorry, no sympathy here. Kerry has been hammered constantly for six straight months. Up and until Howard became the frontrunner in which case the media has a responsiblity to look into him and report everything that is found. Clark is no different.

I've been kind to Dean people because I know what it feels like. But nobody has been picked on any more than the other. And Dean, in particular, just throw bombs out in front of him. His problems have been his fault. Much more than Clarks.

But this whole media picking on this one that one is just silly. Kerry got the war medals question, Edwards got the DOMA, they all got questions that were a little weird. Nobody picked on Clark and he handled himself just fine.

you can pretty much disregard this entire post. In my opinion, it was obvious he was targeted with more pointed questions relating to Republican smears straight off the RNC webpage than any other candidate.

Clark isn't even close to being the front-runner at this point, so my question is why the venomous attacks? Because Hume and Jennings see something in Clark that they think the rest of America might like (if they got a chance to know the true positions and character of the candidate).

fan, was pissed that they either gave him BS loose/loose questions or cut him off while he was talking.

We should all write our candidates are beg that they get together and out the media whores. If they are together than no one can think that they are just whining.

This is so ridiculous. No Clark wasn't targeted any more than anybody else. He did fine. I can really see why Kerry told people to quit crying in their teacups. If this is how Democrats always act, there aren't enough teacups in the world to hold all the tears.

If they didn't think Clark was a threat they wouldn't have attacked him the way they did. They've done the same to Dean but now he's the underdog so they were a little easier on him tonight.

Maybe Clark isn't the frontrunner now but the primary isn't over and anything can happen.

You think Dean is at fault for this stupid "scream" thing? You think he did something out of the ordinary in pumping up his supporters at a RALLY (emphasize "rally")?

Clark said some things, a lot of things, in fact, that made him look not so anti-war. Now, I'm not saying that he WAS anti-war, but he did a lot of playing along on TV with the Iraq war (I saw him, personally, live), and he most definitely didn't come straight out and say that the war was a bad idea until he really geared up his campaign.

To say that the media's criticism's of Dean are deserved, while Clark's are not, is wrong. Dean's campaign nearly ended on an over-spun post-caucus rally cry. Clark was stating his opinions about a very serious issue- starting an unprovoked war.

I DO understand that Clark was unfairly targeted tonight. That was obvious. I also understand that Clark's quotes have been unfairly taken out of context. But, the issues being addressed were legitimate, as opposed to the mega-amplified spin job done on Dean's speech by a media hungry for scandal. That was the most ridiculous and overblown criticism ever.

You should make a distinction between legitimate and illegitimate criticisms.

On edit: And, for the record, Clark is my number two man.

or was it ted kennedy ? can't remember specifically but it was about his chances in a general election because of his northeastern background. the thing is that kerry is just very good at answering these things so comes out looking good.

Or Edwards or anybody but poor Dean and now, I guess, poor Clark too. I'm back to being angry and ready to fight again. Empathy all gone.

I'm proud of the way Clark handled himself. But, if the roles were reversed, it would be like Hume asking Kerry a question about being Skull & Bones.

I'm happy for Kerry and for him finally being in a position I've always felt he deserved: the true frontrunner. But what was thrown Clark's way was beyond disgusting.

He asked about him being a Teddy Kennedy liberal or some such. What's the difference between that and anything Clark was asked? And Clark did a good job, I don't know what everybody is so tweaked out about anyway.

I've been a Kerry supporter since he was in the single digits, so I'm not a bandwagoner.

I've been following the senate debate on the Omnibus Appropriations bill, and was beyond disgusted today that once again, the Senate Democrats got rolled and the result is the screwing of the middle and working classes in favor of the NRA and Bush's corporate contributers.

Then I switched and watched Dean on CSPAN-1. He sounded good.

Then I switched around cable news channels and saw Monday's Dean clip ridiculed at least two dozen times.

Then I watched the debate and saw three United States Senators crow about "leadership" when the Senate has been fully complicit in turning this country into a dictatorship (Kennedy and Byrd exempted). Where was their 'leadership' this week when 8 million Americans lost their overtime pay? Or when the NRA won the right to destroy handgun sales records in 24 hours, allowing guns into the hands of felons and wife beaters? Or allowing FOX to dominate local markets?

And then I went to Dean's website and donated $100.00. I'm so pissed today that I honestly wonder if anyone currently in the Senate - the same boys and girls who brought us the IWR and the Patriot Act - can really change things. And suddenly it makes sense why they've been kicking the crap out of Dean. If more people are like me, there'll be a backlash against this "all Dean on Monday all the time" news coverage.

And remember, the last sitting Senator, Dem or Rep, to attain the Presidency was JFK.

44 YEARS AGO!!!

It's quite a club, just a lousy place to launch a presidency from.

And now we know why. Once again.

:grr:

where WERE the business as usual Senators this week? and where have they been until they started running for office?

Everybody in DC needs to be fired and those that don't understand that can only mock Howard Dean to feel better about themselves.

Your line about the three senators crowing is spot on!

FULLY COMPLICIT is exactly what they were when they allowed the pukes to trample them in the midterms as well. NONE of them would stand up against Bush/Delay for fear of losing their precious senate seats!

I was with Dean before Clark entered the race. Mainly because I was not going to support ANY of the people that rolled over and played dead and let Bush destroy this country.

Kerry and Edwards are good people. I just can't get over the fact that they didn't fight when it mattered most. Now to think that one of them may be our nominee?

I'm off to donate to both Clark and Dean tonight!

I was saying to her how it makes me angry that the Senators that voted for IWR just won't admit they did it to save their political lifes. That when they try to say they were mislead by the president just like the American public, it just ends up pissing me off. As we know here at DU, the American public might have been misled by the president but we saw beyond the lies here and I would hope Senators have access to at least as much information as the mbrs of DU.

So I guess it's hard for me to have confidence that if we elect one of the Senators that voted for IWR as President, that they will take a stand on issues important to me. My question is....if it comes down to choosing between doing the right thing and doing the thing that will boost their approval ratings, which way will they go?

Thanks for listening.

Some time ago a Clark supporter said he donated $ because he was mad at a poster re: some press that Clark was getting.

I told him that as a Dean supporter I was almost maxed out because of this same sentiment and that if he was going to keep on donating when Clark got whacked, I hoped he had saved up.

I was called a "typical Dean supporter" in a disparaging way by Clark people so I rewrote the post.

But THIS was what I was talking about...I knew that once Clark looked like a threat that the media would start whacking him down.

I feel for you guys...I really do.

the most media with an agenda orchestrated campaign in our nation's history. I feel that whoever is left standing is probably going to be the one that the rw feels they can most easily beat in the election, and they are orchestrating the whole thing. Maybe the voters will hand them a few surprises. I think they already did in Iowa.

It's really hitting home with me that we truly are no longer living in a democracy. I'm convinced that things will get much worse before they get better. Oh well, we had a nice 225 year run, it couldn't last forever.

At least there aren't fifty threads all about how awful Clark was and what a terrible candidate he is for it. Be glad this forum has assumed the proportions it has or you'd REALLY knwo what it is like to be a Dean supporter, not that I'd wish such special DU treatment on anyone.

I know how ya feel tho'.

Pravda sucks.

Julie

:kick:

this is probably the most right on target post i've ever seen on du.

"Never mind his stance on the issues. Never mind his record as Governor. Forget about his proposed policies. In one fell swoop, the mediawhores took all the grassroots organization and fundraising, and condensed it into a 13-second screech.


now, i KNOW clark has good folks on his side, too.

thank you again for this.

...

I admit it - I felt sympathy for Dean too, even though he's not my choice. We must never forget we're all in this together.

It seems the goal of the media and repuke hate machine is just the opposite.

Many interesting ideas here on the board lately. Thanks for the great post. I feel good things coming if we can just survive a bit more bad.