So, it's Kerry supporters that are attacking Dean for thinking it's

a bad idea to pull out of Iraq?

Here I was thinking it was Greens and Kucinich supporters. Hell, at least that made sense.

But this is laughable.

Who got us in there in the first place? *cough* *cough*

I supported Kerry and haven't said a negative thing about Dean as chair

There are just some weird things going on around here.

can you point me to the Kerry supporters attacking Dean stuff? It is laughable; Kerry never once said we should pull out and he wasn't exactly against the invasion (one of my serious problems with him). I did support him though when he got the nomination. Are you talking about die-hard Kerry people (primary) or those who voted for him in the general election?

Look around for her posts.

nothing she posted shows that those who support kerry are attacking Dean for not calling for a pull out of iraq.

a divide and conquer tactic; floating crap to get Democrats all worked up and keep up arguing amongst ourselves. One of the oldest tricks in the book and I wouldn't be surprised if Rove is behind it. Of course, I think he's behind everything (no I'm not paranoid). ;)

Madfloridian is not "Kerry supporters." She is ONE Kerry supporter. Granted, I'm sure that more Kerry supporters disagree with Dean but if you point to one person, then you need to retitle your post to "Kerry supporter" - singular.

Self Deleted because I disobeyed RRR#11.

On who is attacking, not attacking, supporting, not supporting -- Howard Dean on this issue, discussion is ongoing.

This one is flamebait.

can you point out some posts where it's Kerry supporters doing it ?

the Kerry posts had to do with criticizing those who thought Dean would call for a pull out.

If he had, I would have understood why, but at this point, after the elections, he's right.

on DU who are NOT and NEVER supported Kerry and think he would call for a pull out.

there have been no thread started by anyone supporting Kerry which went after Dean for not calling for a pull out.

Do we need a list of quotes?

"Who got us in there in the first place? *cough* *cough*"

Bush got us there. Kerry opposed Bush's policies on Iraq even before Dean did.

Kerry opposed Bush's policies on Iraq even before Dean did.

Voting for his policies is a strange way of showing he was against them. And then there was his infamous: "I actually voted for that bill before I voted against it" which came a little later.

Way too much nuance for me.

Actually not Dean, but some of his supporters.

When you pull this kind of crap--lying about Kerry's position on Iraq and then take his statement out of context as Rove did--it is not surprising that some Kerry supporters now find it amusing to see Dean being critized from the left.

I suppose the one name I might be able to mention without getting this post yanked -- well, maybe I won't even go there. He's got some notariety, though, by virtue of the fact that he got a book or two published, and recently changed employers. :eyes:

There are others, some of them fairly ardent Kerry supporters and some of them who were supportive of Kerry more because he was the nominee, but still.

What it feels like to me is that it's just a convenient pile-on to join OR (and it could be both, especially given the different personalitities involved), they're subconsciously jealous of the admiration Dean is getting (and Kerry isn't!) and perhaps even quite eager to pre-emptively bash and damage him prior to 2008.

Could it be that DUers are uncomfortable with the idea of supporting the occupation? When people leveled this exact criticism at Kerry for the same "we can't just leave" song and dance, your righteous indignation was a no-show. Same policy, wholly different reaction from you. So since Dean's comments aren't easily defended by DUers who are ostensibly against the war and the occupation, the more fanatical cadre of primary die-hards try to refight the primaries by breaking DUers into Deanies and Kerrybots? Great. Thanks a lot.

I was- more or less- for a pull-out before the election.

Since then, though...we've got to stick with this. We have to make the best of it. We can't go back and we have to work with what we've got.

and I think it would be a waste of thousands of Iraqi and American lives and billions of dollars if we pulled out and handed over control to the people attacking civilians, in light of that progress.

For those of us who support Kerry AND Dean - where do we fall??

I am amazed at this in-fighting and the fact that a few folks who support Kerry are causing the rest of us to be blamed for ganging up on Dean.

WTF? I support Kerry - always will - and I support Dean. Just because a few Kerry supporters are upset with Dean doesn't mean that the rest of us need to be accused of piling on or being jealouse or whatever else.

Jeez.

This is nothing but flamebait, as stated above.

and especially on the threads where the agitators have targeted him.

People always misinterpreted Dean's positions because of the media's storyline on him, but his position was never really much different than Kerry's from the very beginning. There wasn't a whole lot of significant difference between Biden-Lugar and IWR, and Kerry and Dean were on the exact same page on Iraq when it came to strengthening the troops and securing Iraq to the point that the UN and NATO could get in.

I and most all real Kerry supporters understand how difficult a position Dean is in and how easily anything he says can be spun against him when there really are no easy answers and solutions on Iraq, now that Bush has fucked it up so royally. We will support him because as head of the DNC he needs our support.

Your post is incredibly inaccurate.

to the DNC.

Is that true?

:shrug:

it's about those who may want to give money to pacs.

Kerrygoddess said, in response to madfloridian:

"You've made some allegations...


here and also in thread a thread in the JK group (which got locked for flamebait?) that Kerry supporters are withholding donations to the DNC.

Since when is it that politicians can't raise money for their own PAC's and since when is it that it was mandatory to donate to the DNC?

Every politician has a PAC and they all raise money for their future campaign's and the issue they champion. If Kerry supporters are donating to Kerry it's because they believe in what he is doing. That's it in a nutshell and there is nothing that says anyone HAS to donate to the DNC."

(yadda yadda)

------------

I'm not saying it's true. I'm just saying that that doesn't sound like anything near a denial.

I don't understand. Explain to me why I can't give to Kerry and not to DNC or vice versa?

I've given to DNC because of Dean and I've given to Kerry.

This is craziness. It's the "Some people say" crap that the repubs do!

just like you started things based on what you "hear" and what madfloridian is saying.

show me the threads started by anyone who supports KErry that is attacking Dean for not calling for a pull out of Iraq ? which is what this thread was about. and now you change the subject and continue implying things about an entire group of people.

but obviously I don't really because someone says so in another thread. :eyes:

Also, as a Kerry supporter, I

1) hate Dean
2) withhold my support for the DNC because of Dean
3) am jealous of the attention that Dean is getting.

Let's address.

1. That is just stupid.
2. I have withheld my support of the DNC in the past because they are useless. Also, I am supporting them now because of Dean.
3. Dean and Kerry get the same amount of attention from the corp media: zero, zilch, nada.

This thread is amazing.

Is that true?

This is fucking ridiculous.

I have but I didn't know that it was mandatory.

:shrug:

Dean's the chair, that's messed up.

I thought that he and the DNC were as useful as a box of hair. Is that messed up or is it only messed up if you substitute "Howard" for "Terry"?

This current battle started at Post #16 of MF's long thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1753323&mesg_id=1753524

It was started by a Dean supporter and did nothing but muddy up an issue where Kerry supporters were showing support for Dean.

Responsibility lies there at Post #16.

If nobody started these bullshit attacks in a thread, this wouldn't go on.

Dean and the war.

Maybe you should reword your title. "Kerry supporters" encompasses all of us - every single one. I don't think that you are trying to start a flame war but you will with that title.

No one(well, maybe %30) will support a candidate that wants to cut and run out of Iraq. Until we come to terms with the reality of the situation then the cut and run faction of our party will insist on throwing a wrench in our nomination process like it did in "04 and f*@# everything up.

reason:

it's flame bait and a continuation from a different
thread.