Vote Republican...or Go to HELL!

Recently, I was discussing the right wing whoring of religion with a
conservative talk show host. He claimed that the right wing did not
have the monopoly on using religion. He also stated that the use of
religion for political reasons made him sad. It doesn't make me sad, it makes me angry.

A conservative website posted a story about the same time implying that a left wing liberal church in California called the police on three marines and had them kicked out of the church because of their occupation. A shocking story if you read just the right wing propogandist version.

Being a conservative fighter though, I checked a little deeper and
discovered to my complete expectation, that a large part of the story
had been left out.

The marines in question were not in uniform during the service. There
were three of them with shaved heads dressed in street clothes. They were intimidating to many of the older churchgoers. With neither an introduction or explanation, they stood up during the service, walked to the front of the church, turned to face the congregation, stared at them said nothing and then walked out. They came back the following week and were talking during the service disrupting other parishioners enjoyment of the sermon. Parishioners of the Catholic Church were mainly spanish speaking and they were rightly, a little freaked out by this unusual behavior as would any rich republican member of any mall sized church anywhere in America.

The implication was this; left wing California whackos kick out God
fearing Marines because they don't like the military. A much more
politically useful story than the truth.

Here is the conservative lie.

Here is the true story.

Judge for yourself.

Now, kicking people out of church for their job or political affiliation is completely wrong...right conservatives. So I wonder how many of you will be outraged at the behavior of Pastor Chan Chandler of the East Waynesville Baptish Church in North Carolina who excommunicated 9 members of the church for being Democrats. Pastor Chandler stated that anyone who supported John Kerry during the election or who did not vote for George Bush was not a Christian. When nine members refused to change their political affiliation, the right reverend Chandler, kicked them out. To their credit, 40 additional members left the church in protest.

An isolated incident? An abhorrent example of a man of faith going over the line? Or is this a new wave the right wing politicalization of religion. Surely, this can't be condoned or encouraged by our leaders in Washington, right?

Wrong! This is just the first example of an organized political movement to claim religion as a political prize. "You are either with us or against us," is not just a slogan in the "war on terror". It is now a talking point pushed forward regarding religion. But don't believe me; let's hear from the vice president...



But it wasn't just Ol' Dick who presented this new meme. Let's look at the biting inciteful questions from two plants, uh I mean, completely random American patriots in the audience:




...and the brilliant:



Here is the text of the entire propoganda filled circle jerk.

How much longer until we "of the other faith" are forced to sew the
letter "D" onto our clothing?

Scary times my friends. Scary times.

Steven J. Vincent

It is a deliberate conflation of religion and politics. The casual phrases like "other faith" to mean Democrats. Whoever the meme-makers behind the scenes are, they are still very busy little beavers. It's an orchestrated thing--publicly announced by that unnamed Republican who told the writer Ron Susskind just before the election that they would be the ones to make reality, and indeed everything this government does is geared toward leading the American people toward a "faith-based reality". Scary scary shit.

Recommended

I should have finished my 1st cup of coffee before reading anything this morning.

Please clarify. Do you think I am a conservative? I hope that is not the message that I am portraying with this piece.

;-)
ConserVATIONIST maybe

Cried myself to sleep, woke up writing letters in my head to church leaders and the NY Times and crying some more.

I know I will be more angry than grief stricken, but I am a Catholic/Christian and when a minister puts up a roadblock saying, "Bow down and pledge your allegiance to GW or you can not come in and talk to God today." I grieve for the wound he places in the body of Christ.*

(*More than one definition, the least "chruchy" being all who believe in the ways of Christ are collectively considered the hands and feet etc... continuing Christ's work here on Earth.)

Being Catholic, but not having attended for years because of the conflict I have with hypocrisy in the church since it went away from the reforms of Vatican II, I also have a tradition of mystical interpretation of how that minister wounds Christ with his words.

As a young Catholic teenager I watched presentations on both the "Stigmata" of Padre Pio and the "Shroud of Turnin" which scientists were examining as the burial cloth left behind in the tomb of Christ.

The Shroud shows the face of Christ in a reverse image, as if it were the negative of a camera photo. Close analysis shows how brutal his treatment before his death was and Catholics believe that His taking on the scourge of the whip, the indignation at the hands of soldiers and torture unto death was a supreme act of love on behalf of God's people (some like myself believe "everywhere" not just in Catholic Church pews).

In other words, as a Catholic I believe each wound inflicted on Christ's body that day was on our behalf - us being past/present/future sinners. And every sin we commit is another portion of the pain Christ allowed Himself to endure so that we might live free of condemning ourselves to Hell for walking away from God and choosing sin instead.

Because I was working on having a really pure heart when I was young and was a typical teenager, I had my share of things to confess each week. Walking into confession, after having seen these programs on Padre Pio and the Shroud I would see the Crucifix hanging in the church and I would sympathetically "feel" the pain of nails in my wrist (the shroud shows them correctly - in the palm would not have held the weight).

I don't feel this was a bad thing, simply an acknowledgment of the loving intent of Christ in my life. A reminder that my living the path of AGAPE (unconditional love) was not just for myself, but for the collective good of everyone and maybe a way I could reach back and not pile so much pain on Christ that day. I know it's really far out and mystical, but bear with me. This is who I am.

So when a MINISTER gets up and tells people that they must EMBRACE an EVIL MAN in order to walk into GOD's House, my first reaction is GRIEF over the pain he is inflicting on Christ retroactively and the pain he is inflicting on the body of Christ by denying them the path of AGAPE that leads us to follow in Christ's footsteps and do the right thing.

It is blasphemous to do such a thing - to call that which is evil "good" and that which is good "evil" and as a Democrat I can see through the posturing to the lies and deciept... I'd like the IRS to audit the preacher man... because with Bush there is usually a money trail and 501c ain't dead yet.

But as a Christian I mourn first for the lack of listening to God's message of Love and Hope and Community and Forgiveness. It is such a simple thing to love your neighbor as yourself... to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. We learn about simple fairness in kindergarten.

It is such a complicated and nasty business trying to be holier than the next guy. It's as if the religious right believes God is a raging bull chasing us down the street and only those in front will be able to avoid being trampled.

I first mourn the obscuring of God's message of love and peace that cannot be heard through the furor of the bushit being shouted from pulpits and government places.

When I'm done, I'm going to get up and kick some spiritual butt by getting those letters out before I lose my nerve.

because he voted for clinton X 2, he is going to hell.

my father just sort of neighs at him, like a horse.

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

says something..... shall we say.... "off color" to one of them and gives them the british two finger flip.... you know the one I'm talking about...

The freedom to tell people how you really feel or to mock them and have it looked on as a quirk of your advanced years. I can't wait to get old. Some of the most truthful political discussions I have ever had have been with older people. My 90 year old grandmother can't stand Bush and his minions. I love her dearly.

I just wish my dad was around to see her go and to partake himself.... he was an active member of CORE until his death in 1986

Congress of Racial Equality. One of the 'core' civil rights organizations. ;)

A multi-racial civil rights organization that began in the (i dunno) 1950's... they were very active in voter registration.

Probably the way that most folks know about them was the fact that the three boys whose murder was the subject of the movie "mississippi Burning" were CORE members.
Those poor kids are the ones in the missing poster below.

I found myself starting to feel that way when I hit 50.

the chief benefit is even though I am in my early 40's I feel I am old enough to speak up and use my age to get away with it.

It would take Republicans to make a Heaven-Hell.

On edit: If I were never again to lay eyes on Republican relatives on Earth I would not miss them. That goes for whatever may come.

I know where you are coming from my friend, well....except my mom.

Sorry, but in the context of the preceding posts, it looked like that's what you were saying. :evilgrin:

Actually, as long as there's air conditioning, it might not be so bad, compared to living under this fascist regime.

I am moving to liberal Massachusetts in August. Want to be in the vicinity of people I would go to war with.....just in case you know. Peace!

I don't remember where I heard this, but it has stuck with me for a long time.

There is a version of Heaven where people sit across from each other at huge tables filled with wonderful things, but they have four foot chopsticks attached to their hands. Being the kind of people who wind up in Heaven some of them soon realize that although it is impossible to feed themselves with the tools they were given, it is possible to feed the person across the table and soon all are doing this and having a hilarious time in the process.

In Hell, same table, same chopsticks. However, no one is thinking about feeding the person across the table because the "me-me-me" attitudes that got them into Hell won't allow it. And their is pandemonium as people with four foot chopsticks and no way to partake of the bounty before them find other uses for chopsticks.

On edit, maybe you could think of your republican relatives in this scene and decide would they make Heaven or Hell of this situation and if they would be good and kind in spite of their republican affliction, maybe cut them some slack. Just a thought, because I really understand the original sentiment.

My religious views does not preclude survival. Some Eastern and Western traditions relate that heaven and hell are personal constructs. My personal construct does not include people who coopt religion and politics. The current crop of Republicans in our midst are mass murders no less

My thinking is so different I do not need the presence of what the current Bush regime and their followers represent. To me it is as alien and repulsive as if I were to spend eternity with Nazi's. (That also goes for my relatives who hold these views)

I coexist with people I am truly learning to loathe.

you have an awful situation. I suppose I just hoped that if they were basically good people in other ways a certain approach might work.

I've tried this with strangers and one of my republican relatives. It's worked, but the relatives that I'm most reluctant to approach might go into a tizzy even though to me it's quite reasonable.

I basically talk about how the truth is being witheld and give specifics and say for example, "Now moral people (and most republicans consider themselves moral) don't condone torture, so the big thing is THIS IS BEING DONE IN OUR NAME and most people don't know even half the extent of it."

I even toss out the torture in Iraq during the war, because there is weasel room there. I talk about secretive torture being done by the US reps on foreign soil."

Guantanamo Bay, Cuba and none of these people formally charged, their confessions tortured out of them, no legal counsel allowed until their relatives finally broke through the red tape after about 2 years and still most were held at least 3 years, some killed.

Extradition planes to various countries that allow torture; flight records that document this and evidence of cover up and punishing those who came forward with the truth.

False arrests - persecution of whistle blowers even when the truth is admitted.

You've got a great voice for the typed word and have impeccable common sense. Thank you for fighting. I'll keep reading all your blogs.

and after the "A"s will come the "H"s.

The religion thing now is out of control. I am reading various threads on this Christian dilemma and to tell the truth, I think the religious right has won. There seems to be little to stop it.

this type of injustice and that will never happen.

Even if they cut out my tongue. I will write it down and pass out the truth.

Even if they break my hands, I will learn to write with my feet.

Even if they break my feet, I will stand up on my broken stubs and glower at those who do evil and they will know what I mean.

If they pluck out my eyes and my heart, my blood will seep into the land and the rocks themselves will cry out. For when every righteous voice is silenced, the rocks themselves will take up voice and worship God.

That's what it says in the Bible anyway, so cheer up.

but the problem I have with it is that the compulsive and fixated religious can also use it and probably will, to justify their brand of religion-- ie proselytizing in an offensive way,bullying and ignoring the space of others,and then claiming "persecution" if they are called on it, campaigning against the rights of women as human beings, and fostering hatred toward homosexuals.

That is the big problem with biblical quotes, verses and chapters.

I am not so sure that a book written two or four thousand years ago is the appropriate vehicle with which to stop this insane religious attack on our country but I appreciate your attempt to be positive in the face of it all. :hi:

Good to see you back here.

:thumbsup:

it looks lame

asked this question. cheney owes me an explanation what he means by other faith. that question should be all over the news and off every reporters lips, what are you defining other faith. i want to know. I want to KNOW what my vp is saying about me using other faith. this should be the big question, and it seems we just accept and allow such comments. i am probably more outraged by cheney using this, and having his plants send it back, ......mor than the nc church

Fear not. You cannot "go to hell." Hell like Heaven comes for you. His heart goes out to you. The Magi have heard the Dragons call. "One day is what I fear. Do not let it near. It must not be Today. Lead them astray. Take them farther away." We can keep that Beast at bey to protect and save souls. But we can not do for this forever. You have work that must be done. Many Impeachments to be made where ever they are to be made. You must give the devil his due or become a theif in his night. It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness. Fore darkness was His curse upon him. It is darkness that comes to devour the day. So Feed him just One Day, Strive to make that Today, or for One thousand years will you live in his days and their infinite wars that no mortals can win. Only God can defeat evil. But we can all do what is right.